Automated Transcript
Sam:
[0:00]
| Yellow it's the magic hand wavy thing uh it's starting up i see your papa today i this.
|
Ivan:
[0:11]
| Is my i i got this was gifted to me for father's day.
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Sam:
[0:18]
| Very nice established 2012 yeah exactly, for what for a second i thought it was supposed to be your your birth year and i was like wait that's wrong then i figured it out yeah i did not become a dad.
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Ivan:
[0:34]
| At age zero.
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Sam:
[0:38]
| That's not that's not how that works.
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Ivan:
[0:41]
| No not really no.
|
Sam:
[0:45]
| Okay uh shall we uh shall we hit the button button go go uh sure, Welcome to Curmudgeon's Corner for Friday, July 3rd, 2026. It's just after 17 UTC as we're starting to record. We're doing this a day earlier than we have usually because tomorrow's July 4th. It's a holiday. I'll be out doing stuff. I don't know if Yvonne's out doing stuff.
|
Ivan:
[1:39]
| But I'll be out doing stuff. Yeah, I got stuff.
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Sam:
[1:42]
| Yeah, you got stuff. I know we are both going on as quickly as possible getting to the National Mall. To participate in the great national state fair.
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Ivan:
[1:55]
| The extremely successful.
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Sam:
[1:57]
| Yeah. Like, we have to take part in Donald's celebrations in D.C. That's what we're both doing.
|
Ivan:
[2:04]
| Yeah. It's amazing.
|
Sam:
[2:07]
| Anyway, we'll do our usual starting with less serious stuff and then moving towards newsy stuff towards the end. Although, honestly, I mean, I'm looking at my list. I don't have a lot this week anyway. I mean, well, there's a, I mean, SCOTUS did a bunch of stuff, but anyway, do you have a, like a, the fun stuff at the beginning? You have something in mind? You got anything? I got movies. I got my usual movies.
|
Ivan:
[2:37]
| Fun stuff? Fun? I don't know. I've been watching a lot of the World Cup, but I don't know.
|
Sam:
[2:45]
| You know, I am not a sports, but how's that been going in general? Not any specific sports stuff, but like, has it been going well as a disaster? I think, well, a lot of people thought— I'll tell you my one experience I had. I'll give you in a minute, but yeah.
|
Ivan:
[2:56]
| I mean, a lot of people thought it would be a disaster, but it hasn't been. Mm-hmm. I mean, even though the ticket prices have been outrageous, the stadiums have been packed for the most part. The games have been quite good. A lot of African nations have been making progress that they hadn't seen in the past. The one thing, I don't know, it's just somebody was mentioning how, no matter how hard Donald or FIFA could have tried to fuck it up, the World Cup is like its own thing. And so it the participants really make up the world cup and even though they tried very hard to fuck it up they they couldn't i think that's the biggest conclusion okay from from all of this the one thing.
|
Sam:
[3:47]
| Like i did this and this was a couple weeks ago now but like i went, So first of all, Brandy got to go to an actual one of the games in Seattle. She did that, you know, and, you know, she could have brought me with her, but she knew I would be miserable. I would be unhappy. I would not enjoy it. I would go because I was accompanying her, but otherwise I'd be looking at my phone. I'd be bored. I'd put on like headphones to avoid the noise, you know, and, you know.
|
Ivan:
[4:20]
| I would have agreed to go with her. Well listen i got she found someone flew up to flew up to miami to go to a game you know from columbia spent four thousand dollars on a ticket to go to a game but well i will admit that they did get very good the.
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Sam:
[4:39]
| One she saw was usa versus australia.
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Ivan:
[4:41]
| Yes which was quite a good game i would have gladly flown up to go see the game.
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Sam:
[4:46]
| Yeah well you know anyway she got some random random.
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Ivan:
[4:49]
| Again I would have gladly flown up to go see the game if I would have known this, you fucking asshole.
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Sam:
[4:57]
| Yeah, well, whatever. Yeah, whatever.
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Ivan:
[5:03]
| I would have fucking, I mean, are you kidding me?
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Sam:
[5:06]
| And she got to go to, you know, some VIP events beforehand as well.
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Ivan:
[5:11]
| Yeah, you asshole. Yes, I would have fucking gladly flown up for this. So how about next time?
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Sam:
[5:18]
| Well, you're, you're, you're assuming she would have liked to go with you.
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Ivan:
[5:22]
| Well, that's true.
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Sam:
[5:24]
| She could have been like that asshole for fuck that.
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Ivan:
[5:27]
| Fair, fair point. Okay.
|
Sam:
[5:30]
| She, she found some random person that she didn't know that she knew.
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Ivan:
[5:35]
| Yeah, of course.
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Sam:
[5:36]
| Friend of a friend through work or whatever. But now to be clear.
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Ivan:
[5:44]
| Literally. To be clear. I would have flown up for this.
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Sam:
[5:46]
| She to be clear she did have to pay for tickets but she got them at a decent, she wasn't there like super inflated crazy prices like there was some sort of deal that she was able to get in.
|
Ivan:
[5:58]
| Well i mean there are a number of tickets that were allocated that listen the face value to tickets, while expensive wasn't as expensive as has been in the resale market so you know because my friend if you joined there were lotteries and there were certain allocations for tickets Our friend Kathy got to go to one of the games in Atlanta. They got in a lottery, and I know the prices were quite, you know, reasonable, okay, to do that. And I believe my friend that came up from Columbia also partook in that. They got seats that were very good, but again, they paid, you know, I saw they paid $4,000 for a ticket. However, I saw that in the resale market, you got $4,000 for a nosebleed seat. They got like second row seat to the game for that price. So, It really, you know, in terms of value that you got for the ticket, they certainly paid $4,000, but they were like right there. It's not the same to pay $4,000 and basically have to get binoculars to see where the fuck the ball is. I don't particularly.
|
Sam:
[7:08]
| Anyway, my part of that story is I did not go to the game for the reasons I mentioned. But, you know, the Snohomish Podcast Network, which we have been doing stuff with for the last few months, had a booth there. And they had sent out an email a few days before asking for people to like, hey, can you please, not at the game, sorry. They had a booth at a watch party in Everett. Okay. And so we, they sent out an email saying, you know, hey, we need additional volunteers to just show up at the booth and have a presence, whatever. So I'm like, okay, I'll show up. And i'll tell you this was like at sort of a park area by the everett waterfront and i would i was surprised when i got there because, there was a there was a freaking line to get into the damn thing and i'm like, this is they just have a big tv set up at the front you know what the hell you could watch it at home why would you want to be here, And that was my honest reaction. Like I had to like wait, I had to wait in line like half an hour to get into the place. And of course, Brandy's like, we had to wait in line a lot longer at the actual game. But, you know, got in and there are lots of people there.
|
Sam:
[8:27]
| Basically, they had a giant screen set up with the game being projected on it, and a big field where people could stand around and watch and bring their lawn chairs and stuff. And then around the edges, they had food carts and booths from various people and stuff like that. And it wasn't completely packed, but it was pretty full.
|
Sam:
[8:53]
| And this is why I didn't go to the game, obviously. I'm like, I have no comprehension why anyone would ever do this. Like, if you want to watch the damn game, you've got a TV at home. Why the fuck would you come to this thing? You know, and, you know, I was just baffled. And, you know, I went to the little booth in the back. I didn't actually watch any of the game. I didn't pay attention to what was going on in the game. Every once in a while, I heard, like, people yelling and stuff. And I was like, oh, something must have just happened. But for the most part you know i i hung out with some of the network people for for a little bit and and then headed out but like, you know i was there i actually was present for the entire game i hadn't planned to be but i was but i didn't watch even a single second of it and was just baffled the whole time why anybody would ever do this, so that that's my story, i mean i can i can almost understand wanting to go to the actual game and purchasing it's the watch party thing i'm gonna.
|
Ivan:
[9:58]
| Do a very analogy okay you know let me ask a question is watching porn on video or having sex different.
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Sam:
[10:08]
| This was still on video.
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Ivan:
[10:10]
| No, it wasn't.
|
Sam:
[10:11]
| Well, it was a watch party. It wasn't actually going to the game. It was going to a field in the heat with a bunch of extra people around you. I will admit that usually.
|
Ivan:
[10:24]
| Like, the watch parties, I'm not that big a part. I'm not. Actually, watch parties are fun because one thing is to have people around you reacting at the same time. When something happens at an event and you're not just like at home watching it or like whatever, but a lot of people are sharing your emotions, it actually feels a lot more exciting than you just being at home and watching it. This is not like watching a movie or something. I mean, it's a live event that's happening at that moment that...
|
Sam:
[10:50]
| Well, people say the same thing about movies, too. They get the energy from the crowd reacting and stuff.
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Ivan:
[10:55]
| Yes, and that's true. And I agree. It's not the same thing just to watch it, at home at the same time is to having the crowd reaction at the same time. That's the biggest factor. Now, to a lot of people, to you, you don't care, but, you know, to most other people.
|
Sam:
[11:11]
| I will say...
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Ivan:
[11:12]
| To the non-Spock population that.
|
Sam:
[11:14]
| Yeah, they... I will say that on occasion, when I have gone to a movie in person near opening day, I have enjoyed the crowd reactions.
|
Ivan:
[11:24]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[11:24]
| Like, to a new movie that everybody's seen for the first time... And I know that this is augmented, I guess, by the fact that I don't understand watching sports in general. But even so, like, I have the same thing with concerts.
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Ivan:
[11:45]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[11:45]
| Like, my wife has learned not to drag me to concerts anymore.
|
Ivan:
[11:49]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[11:50]
| Because I end up, I'm like, I'm going because you want to be here, not because I want to be here. I am going to support you and like, whatever. But like, she looks at me and I'm clearly miserable. I'm like, it's too fucking loud. Why are people standing up? Can't they just fucking sit down and listen quietly? You know? Oh my God. And I'm putting on my noise.
|
Ivan:
[12:18]
| I know this because I have dragged you to a concert myself. So I know the experience.
|
Sam:
[12:23]
| Yes. And I'm like, if you wanted to listen to this, you've got Apple Music, you've got Spotify, you know, you put on the song. What the fuck is this thing? Like, instead, you have to subject yourself to the misery of lines getting in. You're in a crowd. There are fucking people all around you. If you're hungry, you have to get, like, super expensive crappy food. You know, this is ridiculous. Ridiculous like you know i i could i could just i could just put on the song if i want to hear the damn song, oh gosh you know.
|
Ivan:
[13:04]
| I know yeah it's it's not for you.
|
Sam:
[13:06]
| No it's not for me so anyway i i, i did not go to the world cup game and it was probably better for it every once in a while i'm like you know it would have been nice to accompany her and then i'm like you know actually, i i would have been miserable the whole fucking time and and she would have known i was miserable and that would of reduced her enjoyment of the event and so, it's better this way no no i i'm i'm fully.
|
Ivan:
[13:34]
| On board with the fact that you may it is a good decision to for you not to go to the game i i i'm i'm fully on board i.
|
Sam:
[13:41]
| Mean i.
|
Ivan:
[13:41]
| I i know you and and it is the right call i i.
|
Sam:
[13:44]
| Don't i.
|
Ivan:
[13:45]
| Don't i don't i i it's the right call.
|
Sam:
[13:48]
| Absolutely uh-huh what was not the right.
|
Ivan:
[13:50]
| Call was not to tell me about this fucking game because I would have gone up there to watch.
|
Sam:
[13:56]
| This fucking game.
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Ivan:
[14:00]
| That's the only part that was wrong about this.
|
Sam:
[14:04]
| I understand. I understand.
|
Ivan:
[14:06]
| Other than that, everything was fine.
|
Sam:
[14:08]
| Okay. That's good.
|
Ivan:
[14:11]
| So this is a future reminder.
|
Sam:
[14:13]
| Okay. You got anything else before I do a couple movies?
|
Ivan:
[14:17]
| Well, I did tell you my little anecdote about the fact of how I cleared traffic exiting. I told this on Slack how I managed to clear the traffic from the camp exit. You know, I'm realizing.
|
Sam:
[14:30]
| Yvonne was like, somebody did something stupid in traffic. And Yvonne's response is.
|
Ivan:
[14:37]
| Of course, to scream at them. Okay, let's be clear. Something stupid. They decided that they didn't want to wait. And they decided to drive down the street. You know, driving the wrong way. And block everybody.
|
Sam:
[14:49]
| Because something was blocking them. Yeah. What was it, construction or something?
|
Ivan:
[14:53]
| There was a construction vehicle moving slowly. and they decided that they didn't have the patience to wait for a construction vehicle. So in order to solve the problem, they decided to drive down the street the wrong way into oncoming traffic, like a lot of oncoming traffic.
|
Sam:
[15:06]
| Anyway, Yvonne's response was to yell and scream and curse at them. Right.
|
Ivan:
[15:11]
| Well, after we all sit there for several minutes and this person will not move, that is blocking everybody. I fucking got fed up. And here's the thing about this. And this is my fucking pet peeve about this. It's A, number one. It starts with the fucking selfishness of our era where somebody believes that they're totally entitled by themselves to pass all the traffic and drive the wrong way in order to get there first. Because I, hey, I'm more important than all of you. Right.
|
Sam:
[15:46]
| Mm hmm.
|
Ivan:
[15:47]
| Which is, you know, the Trumpian era in a in a fucking nutshell. You know, fuck you all. I got my I'm getting mine. Fuck all of you. So we start with that. And then the fact that we are in an era of sheer stupidity where you are the one that's blocking the entire traffic and you don't move. You're like, well, I don't know why this is happening. Fuck, because you're blocking everybody, you asshole.
|
Sam:
[16:17]
| Okay.
|
Ivan:
[16:18]
| And the fact that another thing that happens is that most of the time when this shit happens, what happens now? People just sit around like idiots. They take out their phones. They'll film it. Oh, look. Look at the idiot. Oh, you know. Look at him. Whatever. Not do anything. No, I did not take out my phone. No, I did not. Whatever. I fucking lowered my window and told that idiotic bitch to move her fucking car so we could all get on our day. To have her to tell me oh you need to chill listen bitch, you're the one that decided to drive down the street to drive in the wrong fucking way what the hell did it become cool to drive down the street the wrong fucking way can you fucking tell me this, because I'm trying to figure it out right now.
|
Sam:
[17:06]
| As I said on curmudgeon's corner slack Yvonne you do need to chill.
|
Ivan:
[17:11]
| Fuck this shit.
|
Sam:
[17:16]
| Yeah no and you're.
|
Ivan:
[17:16]
| Absolutely 40 people being blocked by this sam there were literally 40 fucking cars blocked by this asshole who just sat there, let's go on my day let me wait for that to move for me i'm like why couldn't we move for you.
|
Sam:
[17:38]
| Eventually it would have worked itself out.
|
Ivan:
[17:40]
| No, it wouldn't have. No, it wouldn't have. That's the problem. There's no one. Listen, the only fucking solution to the problem was for her to move. It would have. Oh, yeah. You know how it would have solved? All of a sudden, everybody would have started honking like crazy. Okay. Because it was paralyzed. Because it had started happening. It would have descended into fucking utter chaos. And because she would have sat there because she didn't know, because she seemed like completely incapable of figuring out that she is the one that is causing this. Okay. She was just sat there like an idiot.
|
Sam:
[18:17]
| Uh-huh. Okay. Shall we move on?
|
Ivan:
[18:22]
| No. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
|
Sam:
[18:27]
| I'm abused by the whole thing and I of course absolutely would have done what you said I would have been the passive person that was just sitting in the car and I would wait as long as I needed to wait and like I would have been like listen to my podcast whatever and, I might have started to get annoyed after a few minutes you would not.
|
Ivan:
[18:43]
| Have driven down the street the wrong way.
|
Sam:
[18:45]
| Oh no I would not have done that for sure I would have been waiting for the construction equipment as well just like I was.
|
Ivan:
[18:52]
| Doing a lot of us were.
|
Sam:
[18:54]
| Yeah you just you know you just wait like things happen all the time you wait.
|
Ivan:
[18:59]
| Yeah you wait.
|
Sam:
[19:00]
| Like i and to be clear i'm the one who if there's slow traffic in the lane i'm in just goes behind it i i can be behind the slow traffic for half an hour before i realize oh wait i could pass them yeah so yeah i'm i'm usually patient, and and oblivious but you know same thing, okay Okay, shall we now move on?
|
Ivan:
[19:23]
| Yes, let's move on.
|
Sam:
[19:24]
| Okay, I'm gonna do my usual two movies. We are now, by the way, only 10 months behind. We were almost 12 months behind at one point on my stuff. This is from the end of August, 2025. So anyway, first movie from 2003, a documentary called The Fog of War. Do you know this documentary? Yvonne.
|
Ivan:
[19:52]
| I, I, I, the, the, the name rings a bell, but I don't remember from, I don't.
|
Sam:
[19:58]
| It is. Let me, let me give you one more bit. The subtitle is 11 Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara.
|
Ivan:
[20:06]
| Oh yes, yes, yes. I did. I did watch this. Yes.
|
Sam:
[20:10]
| Okay.
|
Ivan:
[20:10]
| Oh yeah.
|
Sam:
[20:11]
| Do you have any memories? Do you have any memories?
|
Ivan:
[20:14]
| I remember it was quite good. And if I remember correctly, this was Bob McNamara himself, narrated this, correct?
|
Sam:
[20:26]
| I'm not sure if narration is the right word. A good part of it is just video of an interview with him.
|
Ivan:
[20:33]
| Exactly. Correct.
|
Sam:
[20:35]
| Yeah. So, yes, a good part of the movie is him talking.
|
Ivan:
[20:38]
| Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is quite good.
|
Sam:
[20:42]
| So let me give the one paragraph from the summary.
|
Ivan:
[20:46]
| I know a lot of people.
|
Sam:
[20:46]
| One thing that I'm going to say.
|
Ivan:
[20:48]
| We'll do that. I'll just say.
|
Sam:
[20:50]
| Composed of archival footage, recordings from the 1960s of conversations with the U.S. Cabinet and new interviews with former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. The fog of war depicts McNamara's life as seen from his perspective as an 85-year-old man. It is divided into 11 sections based on lessons Morris derived from his interviews with McNamara, as well as the 11 lessons presented at the end of McNamara's 1995 book, In Retrospect, The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam, written with Brian Vandermark. Okay, go ahead. Give me your impressions of it first before I talk about mine.
|
Ivan:
[21:27]
| Well, I mean, it was very introspective. I think a lot, some people, you know, he took a lot of blame for a lot of the bad decisions that were made. That was my impression that I recall. And he described why, and he talked about the detail about it. And I think that regardless of... I think that he tried to hold himself accountable for a whole bunch of bad decisions that he made. He tried to explain why they were made, what the logic behind it was. A lot of people still will not absolve him from the egregious things that happened, despite that. And I don't know. I think he did talk about that at some point during it, because I watched it a long time ago.
|
Sam:
[22:16]
| Yeah, yeah.
|
Ivan:
[22:17]
| But he realized that a lot of people wouldn't, and I think he was okay, if I remember correctly, he was okay with that.
|
Sam:
[22:24]
| Yeah, I mean, look, this was basically part of his process of trying to make peace with what happened, which included, like you said, him realizing that a lot of mistakes had been made. Yeah now yeah part of part of it was still like hey, we made the best decisions we could at the time some of them turned out to be wrong, right um but you know and it was trying to yeah it's one of these things it's trying to in some degree rehabilitate him from what had happened and the negative stuff from there i and it.
|
Sam:
[23:08]
| It gets, you know, it's one of those things that you, do you forget if the person does all kinds of things that were really bad, but later in their life is sorry, how do you end up feeling about that person in balance? Right. You know, and you want to take into account the fact that they have some regrets, but at the same time they did what they did, you know, and, and how do, how do you balance all these things off against each other? And there's also the difference, you know, there are people who, look, there's three types of paths here. There's the people who do bad, evil things and never regret it at all and are proud of them, right? There are people who do the things and then later realize, oh, crap, I did things that were bad and I'm sorry. And then there are people who actually spend the sort of second half of their lives trying to make up for it by doing other things that are good. I think McNamara is in that second category. And, you know, maybe given the ages he was and everything, that's what was available to him. But it's not like the post-Vietnam part of his life was full of doing good for the world, right?
|
Ivan:
[24:35]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[24:35]
| You know, so I don't know. And look, let me give you the lessons that the film was organized into, because I think those are some of these. Yeah. You look at the headline, at least without going into the details. And it's like, OK, maybe not all of them, but OK, here. Lesson number one, empathize with your enemy. And I think that just within the last few weeks we've talked about this with regard to Iran with like.
|
Ivan:
[25:08]
| I think it's a critical I mean look that was a, critical, critical, critical lesson that we still, well, the Trump administration failed to grasp. I don't, I don't think that, I think that we've done, whatchamacallit, we've done an uneven job of administrations in past decades of absorbing that lesson. Some have done better than others, really.
|
Sam:
[25:38]
| Yeah, I mean, the bottom line, though, I mean, and.
|
Ivan:
[25:41]
| This is not- is well known for its lack of empathy. So therefore, it's, that's like, that word in this, for MAGA, is really, like.
|
Sam:
[25:51]
| It's evil.
|
Ivan:
[25:52]
| Yes, correct. It is absolutely evil, and we're not exaggerating about this.
|
Sam:
[25:59]
| Was it Peter Thiel that said, like, empathy is a disease or whatever?
|
Ivan:
[26:02]
| Something like, or I think it was, I think it was Musk, okay? One of those, whatever, one of those guys.
|
Sam:
[26:09]
| It's not like they don't talk to each other.
|
Ivan:
[26:10]
| But this is a belief amongst these people that empathy is some kind of, like, disease.
|
Sam:
[26:17]
| It's a problem that has to be stamped out.
|
Ivan:
[26:20]
| Correct. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[26:22]
| Anyway, but yeah, it's just fun. And, like, look, it keeps coming up like it's a new revelation. But, I mean, honestly, people, I mean, is this in Sun Tzu's Art of War as well? I mean, this goes back, like, this is not, like, a new revelation. The fundamental is like if you are in a conflict with somebody, to most effectively deal with that conflict you have to understand where they're coming from and put yourself in their their shoes and think about like if i was them how would i be reacting right now there are two things one even if your ultimate goal is to win and crush the other side this still helps but also, if both sides are being empathetic with each other you may find out that you have a lot more in common that you think and you might be able to solve the problem without a war.
|
Ivan:
[27:09]
| That's right.
|
Sam:
[27:10]
| You know... Lesson number two, rationality alone will not save us. McNamara emphasized, I'm not going to read all of these, but basically the bottom line was he said, it was luck that kept us from having a nuclear conflict after like the Bay of Pigs and stuff like that.
|
Ivan:
[27:29]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[27:29]
| And, you know, that it's not just rationality. There are other factors at play. Emotions matter. Luck matters. You know, and so, you know, you have to, you can't just think your way out of everything. There's, these other factors are important and they really are. Okay. Number three, there's something beyond oneself. Yeah. Yeah.
|
Ivan:
[27:59]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[28:00]
| Duh. Okay. This lesson refers to his private life.
|
Ivan:
[28:04]
| You say that duh. I mean, have you looked at our current president?
|
Sam:
[28:08]
| I know.
|
Ivan:
[28:08]
| I mean, it's not as much of a duh as it seems like it.
|
Sam:
[28:13]
| Well, and, you know, he actually put it further. There's something beyond oneself and a responsibility to society. He was specifically talking about don't neglect your family. Because apparently this was something he did. he had you know there's himself his career but also as a public servant he was like i have to do xyz because the world needs me and whatever and apparently he neglected his family and you know yeah all that kind of stuff you know it's no your family matters too yeah um, number four maximize efficiency, okay yeah so apparently one of the things mcnamara did was he's he brought some rigor, to how the defense department was doing things in terms of, hey, let's actually keep track of all the equipment we use and how we use it and what's effective and what's not, and then base further decisions based on those metrics, which, okay, I can't argue that makes more sense than just sort of winging it and doing what you feel like, you know, you know, it's, I'm fully on board with like measure things and see what happens. Of course, in this case, they were measuring efficiency of killing people and stuff like that. But what, you know, okay. And also I'd add to that, you know, again, talking about Iran recently, efficiency in killing people doesn't necessarily translate into your strategic objectives either.
|
Ivan:
[29:42]
| No, it doesn't.
|
Sam:
[29:43]
| Okay. Number five, proportionality should be a guideline in war.
|
Ivan:
[29:49]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[29:50]
| So... Yeah, I mean, I think this has, for the most part, been a consensus in the post-World War II era.
|
Ivan:
[30:00]
| Yeah, well, except, like, look at Israel.
|
Sam:
[30:03]
| I was about to say, except look at Israel. Yeah.
|
Ivan:
[30:06]
| Fuck.
|
Sam:
[30:07]
| And there's no proportionality there.
|
Ivan:
[30:09]
| At all.
|
Sam:
[30:10]
| And as recently as the last few weeks, you had one of the cabinet, I forget which one, talking about Lebanon and basically saying the whole country must burn. And for every one Israeli killed, you know, thousands of Lebanese must weep, you know, things like that. This is not, I mean, I guess one to a thousand is a proportion, but it's not what we're talking about. Like, it's, you know, a relationship to proportionality should be a guideline. It's just a fundamental notion that your enemy are people too.
|
Ivan:
[30:49]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[30:50]
| You know? Okay. Number six, related to maximize efficiency, get the data. Okay. Number seven, belief and seeing are often both wrong. And this was in relation to the Gulf of Tonkin incident. And the quote was, we see what we want to believe. And so basically this is a warning to like, you know, don't just go with the easy interpretation that, Validates your prior assumptions.
|
Ivan:
[31:21]
| Yep.
|
Sam:
[31:22]
| Dig a little deeper.
|
Ivan:
[31:23]
| Yep.
|
Sam:
[31:25]
| And a lot of these are related to each other. Number eight. Be prepared to re-examine your reasoning. Obviously related to the last one, you know, the quote here is, if we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we better re-examine our reasoning. And this was in the case where the U.S. was going it alone in some areas and some of the allies were like, nah, that's not a good idea. And we just kept barreling on. And again, parallel to what's going on right now, like there's a lot of things where the U.S. is going it alone and all kinds of other people are like, are you out of your freaking minds? Possible time to reexamine. Of course, again, this administration doesn't reexamine. Now, number nine is a little controversial, perhaps.
|
Ivan:
[32:23]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[32:24]
| In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil. And he says, recognize at times we have to engage in evil, but minimize it. And this sort of reminds you of Dick Cheney's remarks after 9-11 about having to go into dark secret places to react to this that, you know, ended up with, you know, torture and rendition and all kinds of things that, and weren't really effective, but caused a lot of damage. And you can argue that, I mean, like, on a pure utilitarian basis, you know, sometimes this is true. Like, you're trying to minimize overall damage, but in the process you have to do some damage to, But those end up being, frankly, they're really hard ethical quandaries in some of those cases, you know, and but, you know, I see where it's coming from. And I see where, you know, for instance, if you were just in a complete pacifist, I will never hurt anybody no matter what. Well the people who are willing to do so will just take over everything you know and so it's i don't know but that one's a tough one for me i don't know any thoughts on that one.
|
Ivan:
[33:45]
| I i mean it, it's a tough one i mean i i think it's it's related to sometimes it's like, you know peace you know you may try to be peaceful all the time and you want peace but sometimes you have to use force to the first offense and things no matter how much you you want so i, i i i think i don't know i think maybe the way that he framed that isn't the best but.
|
Sam:
[34:18]
| Like because maybe if it's done for the greater good it's not really evil in balance or whatever Like, yes. And he's not. I mean, obviously, the simple example is you killed a lot of people. You killed a lot of innocents in Vietnam, you know, and that's what's on his mind.
|
Ivan:
[34:38]
| Here, here's the one thing. I don't think that that that works as a valid defense of anything that happened in Vietnam, because all the things, you know, it's just I think that that may be in some other cases a valid defense. Not in that case.
|
Sam:
[34:58]
| Moving on. Never say never.
|
Ivan:
[35:01]
| That's one that it's true.
|
Sam:
[35:05]
| Yeah. And number 11, you can't change human nature.
|
Ivan:
[35:11]
| It's very hard. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[35:13]
| Yeah. And in this case, he talked about how many things become clear only in hindsight. And this was where I was saying like, hey, he was trying to justify a bunch of things of like, hey, we made the best decision we could at the time. I think the reason to flip that on its head is there were plenty of people who knew it was a mistake at the time, you know? So, anyway. But, you know, that's it. In terms of the movie itself, I'm not going to give it a straight-up thumbs-up. I felt like it was somewhat self-indulgent in the way the movie was.
|
Ivan:
[35:55]
| That's been one thing that I, what you just said is something that has been repeatedly a theme, about that. People have said that it's self-indulgent.
|
Sam:
[36:08]
| I mean, I guess it serves its purpose for him trying to justify himself. But at the same time, I'm like, if you really wanted to get... Insight into everything. You'd be better off with sort of an impartial third party talking about it. However, principals talking about their own experience has an important part in the story as well.
|
Ivan:
[36:36]
| A hundred percent. And look, I am not going to, I think that there is a certain important value in people doing critical self-assessment.
|
Sam:
[36:52]
| Yes.
|
Ivan:
[36:53]
| And a lot of the stuff that he talked about was very critical of himself and how he did. This was not exactly, I think, some people self-indulgence, shit, you really...
|
Sam:
[37:05]
| It's better than not doing it. Like lots of people...
|
Ivan:
[37:10]
| That makes it sound like it's the minimal thing. No, I think there's a lot of it. Listen, most people resist doing this in depth. This is what I will say. Very few people will go into critical, important decisions they did and critically evaluate themselves and impart that much criticism of themselves. I tell me which fucking president of recent times as, or which key decision maker that we've had in recent times went to that level of detail to self-criticize significant parts of why he did certain things, i think that the thing is that a lot of people saw it like somehow this is some kind of like, I mean, exercise in like him trying to seek redemption. And that's.
|
Sam:
[37:59]
| Well, and to be clear, he did highlight things he thought he did right as well.
|
Ivan:
[38:03]
| Yeah. Yeah. Again, most of it, most of it was really, you look at through those lessons. I think that motor and half of it talks about how they fucked up. I mean, think about it. You know, not seeing things clearly, proportionality, empathy, all those things.
|
Sam:
[38:27]
| Yeah. Anyway, I will give it.
|
Ivan:
[38:30]
| He was pretty hard on himself. I think that's the one thing that I think people see this in fruition. I saw him, like, really as being very hard on what he did. Harder than most people are on themselves.
|
Sam:
[38:42]
| That is probably true. And I think I've read just generally the theme of, you know, he spent a lot of, again, he spent a lot of the rest of his life apologizing for things. But you know okay my final thumbs direction is, between a thumb sideways and a straight thumbs up, so and and honestly our conversation has shifted that i was gonna just give it a straight up thumb sideways when we started yvonne but through this conversation, a little bit higher than that and so again that's from 2003 the fog of war 11 lessons from the life of robert s mcnamara the documentary And there you go. And we spent a lot of time on that. So let's spend a lot shorter time on this next one because I believe it deserves a lot shorter time because going through this series that I don't really like, but because I started it going through the whole stupid series from 1985, National Lampoon's European Vacation.
|
Ivan:
[39:49]
| Talk about a change of taste.
|
Sam:
[39:54]
| And by the way, I watched this the same day as The Fog of War. Anyway, I think my intro gave us away.
|
Ivan:
[40:07]
| Let me guess. Let me guess. Thumbs down.
|
Sam:
[40:12]
| Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I might be slightly more generous and give it between sideways and down just because I really reserve straight thumbs down for the worst of the worst. But yeah no i i said before when i when i talked about the original vacation movie this is just not my kind of humor i just, i just find it stupid not particularly funny actually somewhat boring you know i i recognize when they're making a joke but i just sort of like, for for anybody on video you could see my face for those on audio it's i'm just sort of shaking my head and like what was that and it's not that it's not that they're not some comedies i like i just don't like this kind.
|
Ivan:
[41:05]
| Of i'm gonna tell you that out of the the the three vacation movies that i the chevy chase that i remember which is the original one this the european vacation and christmas vacation i would say that this one was by far the worst.
|
Sam:
[41:21]
| Uh okay.
|
Ivan:
[41:23]
| By far the worst the the best one actually being the christmas vacation one which was the.
|
Sam:
[41:28]
| Third so i i will let you know i'm not going to give reviews of them later but if we fast forward up to the current time i i i have now watched, i should have brought this up the full series or whatever, Hold on so I can get all the names. Bringing them up. Bringing them up. Okay. To bring us up to the current moment, the original vacation, European vacation, Christmas vacation, Vegas vacation, and Christmas vacation 2. I've watched all of those at this point, which means the only one we have not seen is the 2015 vacation. That's sort of, I gather, a reboot of the whole franchise. And I'm not sure. Like, they are all sort of a nearly equal level of bad to me. I actually, like, Vegas Vacation wasn't that long ago that Alex and I watched it, like within the last few weeks. And I'll actually say it. Within gradations of bad.
|
Ivan:
[42:41]
| Oh, I forgot about Vegas. Oh, shit. Yeah. Okay. All right. Vegas. Okay. Yeah, I forgot that.
|
Sam:
[42:46]
| Well, I actually thought within gradations of bad, Vegas vacation was slightly less bad, actually. But they're all bad. I didn't like any of them. Okay. And when you're trying to judge movies against each other with like, how bad is it? It's a hard judgment call. You know? Anyway like and again i know some people really enjoy this kind of stuff but, i think there are two factors at play here one is how did how do they age, because european vacation was 1985 so we've got a lot of time elapsed and lots of things just don't age well, and then it's just like type of humor and again this is just isn't my type of humor people some people really love this kind of stuff it's just like joke after joke after joke a bunch of stupid gross out stuff a bunch of physical stuff a bunch of you know, random sex jokes you know things like that and it just does nothing for me, that's the bottom line anyway that's all i got to say about that what would you yeah you said this is the worst so i presume your thumbs down as well oh yeah.
|
Ivan:
[43:58]
| I'm gonna be yeah yeah i don't.
|
Sam:
[44:00]
| Think this is a good yeah you're you're not going back and and picking that up as soon as you can no no okay, okay let's let's take a break and then come back with a little bit more newsy a little bit more serious stuff and all of that kind of stuff so here comes a break.
|
Sam:
[45:28]
| Okay, we're back. So, Yvonne, where do you want to start on the more serious newsy stuff of the week?
|
Ivan:
[45:37]
| More serious newsy stuff of the week. Let me see. Where do we want to...
|
Sam:
[45:47]
| Tough choice.
|
Ivan:
[45:48]
| How's the state fair going? How's the national celebration of 250 going? Is it going great?
|
Sam:
[45:55]
| You know, I mentioned that at the beginning of the show. And I don't know, does this even qualify as the more serious stuff? But okay. Like, well, it is.
|
Ivan:
[46:05]
| Okay. Look, look. Yes. And I'll tell you why.
|
Sam:
[46:09]
| Okay.
|
Ivan:
[46:09]
| So I have some memories of our bicentennial celebration.
|
Sam:
[46:15]
| Okay. We were both like five years old.
|
Ivan:
[46:18]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[46:19]
| Approximately.
|
Ivan:
[46:20]
| Look, you know, people were really very into that celebration. And you know this has been one of the least celebrations i've seen in a long time of something major, i mean sam the mall was empty just this this stupid fair i mean i don't care even you know trump, People are, are, are like, they're not, well, look.
|
Sam:
[46:58]
| Here's the fundamental thing. And, and, and this look completely aside from policy things, this is something that Donald Trump does repeatedly that results in this kind of thing. Like, because he explicitly turned it about himself. Okay. Like there was a committee that had been working for like the last decade on planning for the 250th anniversary and doing commemorative events or whatever. And soon after he got into office, Donald Trump said, oh, screw that organization. We're going to set up our own and then, you know, focus a lot of things in a much different way. So like when the, we had a whole, you know, remember there was going to be a concert series and all the artists ended up backing out when it became clear that it was being promoted as a Trump event, not a national event. And look, you are in Washington, D.C.
|
Sam:
[47:59]
| The one of the bluest places in the fucking country okay and so like if you're gonna pack crowds in a significant number of those are going to be locals and look, locals in dc don't don't usually spend a lot of time at the mall anyway just like locals in new york city don't spend their time in times square liberty right those are tourist places, but nevertheless like if you're going to do the big fireworks or stuff, you know, people are, you're going to want local people and you're going to want, like, if, and I say this, but it's something that Donald Trump has over and over again proved himself unwilling to do. I was going to say incapable, but let's just say it unwilling to do, to really make it not focused on him and his policies and Republicans or whatever, or even like, you know, culturally coded, right-wing stuff, you know, like most presidents of either party, most presidents of either party, if they'd had this anniversary happening on their watch, would have made the whole thing a celebration of everything American.
|
Ivan:
[49:15]
| Look, I just pulled this up just to give you some perspective on participation in celebration. You talked about, you know, about what happened with, You know, why people local don't show up, blah, blah, blah. But look, in the Bicentennial, instead of Trump doing his own Trump-style celebration, the Smithsonian is the one that did the Smithsonian Folklife Festival on the National Mall in D.C.
|
Sam:
[49:39]
| They're the ones who were planning, you know, there was a similar plan for a folklife festival, bringing people, bringing festivals from all over the country and having them do their little mini versions of themselves. That was the plan for 250 as well.
|
Ivan:
[49:54]
| Right. But but of course, you know, Trump, you know, took it away. And so instead of that, we got this ridiculous thing. But look, that bicentennial celebration had 4.5 million people participating in just over 10 days. 4.5 million people. And, Sam, we've got nowhere, even remotely, like, if we've got 100,000 people, it's a stretch that have been there.
|
Sam:
[50:29]
| Many of the pictures that you've seen of acts going on have had more people on the stage than in the crowd watching.
|
Ivan:
[50:35]
| Than in the crowd, correct, yes.
|
Sam:
[50:37]
| You know, and so— Sam.
|
Ivan:
[50:39]
| We had four point—this is the thing that I remember. We had 4.5 million people participate in 1976.
|
Sam:
[50:48]
| People have pointed out that looking at these pictures of the National Mall during this event, there are actually less people there than on a normal summer weekend.
|
Ivan:
[50:59]
| Exactly.
|
Sam:
[51:00]
| Which means not only are people not coming.
|
Ivan:
[51:03]
| People are actively avoiding it. This is how toxic this guy is. And not even, you know, I would think, well, his diehard supporters are going to show up. But guess what? Those guys in the past never took part of any of this type of shit anyway.
|
Sam:
[51:22]
| Well, I wouldn't say never. Like, there was a point.
|
Ivan:
[51:26]
| They weren't the ones that were inclined to be really.
|
Sam:
[51:29]
| No, but look, there has been a real drop off here. During the prime like 2016 before his first term election.
|
Ivan:
[51:38]
| You think if this was like the 2016 version of him, they would have packed the National Mall?
|
Sam:
[51:45]
| Well, back in that time frame, you were packing MAGA rallies all the time all over the country. That's true.
|
Ivan:
[51:51]
| And now he can't like, fuck, he can't fill a damn movie theater right now.
|
Sam:
[51:55]
| Right. And because people, you know, like, look, we have had, people are tired. We've had a decade of this shit.
|
Ivan:
[52:04]
| I mean it's the same no no no it's not the same it's not even the same shit if he was able to even at least bullshit like he did 10 years ago it'd be okay right now, he is a blubbering incoherent mess he's, talking like about imaginary conversations with dead people right now.
|
Sam:
[52:26]
| Well just to be clear the Teddy Roosevelt thing there's been video released He did speak to an AI hologram of Teddy Roosevelt as part of the opening of the Teddy Roosevelt presidential library. So when he talked about speaking to Teddy Roosevelt— This week. Oh. He made those comments, like, right around when it happened.
|
Ivan:
[52:48]
| Okay, Sam, but because I talked to an AI avatar of you, that doesn't mean I talked to you, Sam.
|
Sam:
[52:56]
| Close enough. Come on. Come on.
|
Ivan:
[53:00]
| God.
|
Sam:
[53:02]
| Anyway but so so just to be fair and there is video of that you can go see the video.
|
Ivan:
[53:06]
| Of donald trump talking to teddy roosevelt okay but but but he didn't really talk to teddy roosevelt he talked to ai, you know maybe we need to i mean now that i'm thinking about this maybe we need to leverage this somehow, okay well i mean we present some ai of some historical figure that he respects and tells him to go resign or something. I don't know.
|
Sam:
[53:32]
| Well, it's been brought up for a long time that one way to get out of this whole problem is to set up a Truman Show scenario for him.
|
Ivan:
[53:41]
| Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. It seems that not based on what you saw, it's a distinct possibility.
|
Sam:
[53:50]
| You know, and for anybody, another movie, Truman Show was basically there's one guy and they make this sort of artificial city for him and he doesn't know it, but his whole life is a TV show. He's always on camera. He's being broadcast live. People are watching what goes on with his life. Everyone around him are actors, you know, hired to play his family, his coworkers, whatever. And, which by the way, if this was happening to you right now, how would you know? You know?
|
Ivan:
[54:24]
| Uh, I mean, I guess I wouldn't.
|
Sam:
[54:26]
| Right? If they did it well enough. I mean, he, he, in the movie, he eventually found out because one of the stars fell out of the sky and turned out to be like a light or something.
|
Ivan:
[54:35]
| Right, right, right, right.
|
Sam:
[54:38]
| You know, but anyway. No, look, the, the whole thing, he, I, it's because anything that he does becomes hyper-partisan. That you're not going to get, like, that everybody shows up to it because it's not.
|
Ivan:
[54:58]
| Done for the nation. It's done for himself. I mean, he even posted a picture that was, like, preposterous online of it. Like, he posted some fake AI picture showing the festival all full of people. And they all had, like, there were Trump logos everywhere.
|
Sam:
[55:14]
| Right, right.
|
Ivan:
[55:15]
| And so it's, like, you know, very clearly makes it not the celebration of the country. the celebration of me yeah he he posted this on truth social it's just absurd.
|
Sam:
[55:27]
| Well and again and participants in it like all of the big headliners even the first thing they announced was a bunch of b-listers but then even the b-listers like pulled out they're like yeah exactly.
|
Ivan:
[55:40]
| Now we're like with the who who the fuck is showing up list by the way uh the the picture also like has repeated logos of the trump travel agency for some reason.
|
Sam:
[55:50]
| Okay well and and look so so we get no big headliners showing up you get certainly no, one no one center or left is going to show up to this thing at all because it would be seen as support of donald trump and unless they're going in order to make fun of it or report on it right and as we said even his supporters. Think it's kind of lame and aren't coming and his support and his level of support is way way down because of how the economy is doing and everything else and so we we have what we have, and and meanwhile we're you know, there's this whole state fair thing going on we are recording this on friday july 3rd tomorrow on the 4th they are going to have a fireworks display that lasts almost an hour, it's going to be many it's like 45 50 minutes something like that okay, with apparently more fireworks set off at one time then you know it's gonna, they're trying to set records right i i don't know how how how it goes i'm sure there have been bigger somewhere at some point, but people you know i've seen people posting about the expected pollution levels in dc from this thing i mean being like astronomical, you know?
|
Ivan:
[57:17]
| Maybe he'll choke him to death.
|
Sam:
[57:20]
| Well, and I was going to mention...
|
Ivan:
[57:21]
| That would be hilarious if he wound up choking himself to death on the fireworks display that he sets off. That would be like one of the most, you know, hilarious outcomes.
|
Sam:
[57:32]
| If you've got to be honest. Well, the other thing is the expectation that it's going to be over 100 degrees in D.C. On 4th, and he's planning on giving you know one of his really long outdoor speeches you know.
|
Ivan:
[57:49]
| And I really am all for it, and as a matter of fact somebody should tell him that Obama's longest speech outside was a day like that and he wore parka and did not drink water because water is for sissies.
|
Sam:
[58:08]
| Oh right right okay.
|
Ivan:
[58:11]
| I mean, so he can break that record.
|
Sam:
[58:13]
| And by the way, it was six hours long.
|
Ivan:
[58:15]
| Yes. Yes. Yes. Because somebody tell him that that was Obama's longest speech. So he can like.
|
Sam:
[58:21]
| Well, you know, people have people keep bringing up the William Henry Harrison comparison. But I found out through people commenting on it that William Henry Harrison gets a bum rap. So the the notion he is, by the way, the the president who is president the shortest amount of time. It was like 31 days, something like that. And the story goes that he insisted on giving his inaugural speech without a coat, outdoors. And of course, this was, it was a snowstorm. It was cold. It was whatever. And basically, he caught pneumonia and died. And that's the story.
|
Ivan:
[59:04]
| Uh-huh.
|
Sam:
[59:05]
| But? Apparently, the reality is, and it was even reported at the time. He caught pneumonia and died but people have gone back and looked at the actual reports of the doctors involved yeah and they apparently, they did label it pneumonia at the time but if you look at his actual symptoms over those 31 days, they don't they don't align with dying of pneumonia and instead it looks like, He suffered from something that actually presidents of the time often suffered for, which was the water at the White House was contaminated.
|
Ivan:
[59:46]
| Oh.
|
Sam:
[59:48]
| And he ended up getting one of the waterborne, like, intestinal diseases and, like, you know, basically died of that. Now, they couldn't determine for sure exactly which species of bug caught him or whatever. But fundamentally, the problem was, you know, he didn't have a good water supply. And it was contaminated. And he caught something. And he died of that. And, of course, medical technology at the time, they didn't know how to treat it. They didn't know what to do. They didn't know how to, like, filter the water. I mean, whatever, you know. You drank what you drank. And what happened happened. And anyway, but apparently it wasn't because he went out in the cold. But people have been making the comparison anyway and saying we could have a hot version of that. And I don't know.
|
Ivan:
[1:00:44]
| Well, I mean, I, you know, I just look, but, it's not that he's going to die of a disease, but we could, you know, he might be become seriously dehydrated. Heat stroke. be such a shame.
|
Sam:
[1:01:00]
| Yeah, I hear you. But I presume they're going to keep a good eye on him. They're going to spritz him down with water. He'll have stuff to drink. Well, one thing, listen. They'll probably, even though it's outdoors, put it in an air-conditioned tent. I don't know.
|
Ivan:
[1:01:16]
| Listen, you keep saying that, you know, look, you know he doesn't listen to anybody.
|
Sam:
[1:01:21]
| Yeah.
|
Ivan:
[1:01:21]
| So he'll do whatever the fuck it is that he feels like it.
|
Sam:
[1:01:26]
| Yeah, we'll see how it goes. And if anything like that happens, there will be an amendment to this story. Because I'm probably not putting out this podcast. We're recording on Friday. I probably won't put it out until Sunday, maybe even Monday. We'll see how it goes. But, like, yeah, I will amend this podcast if something significant happens to Donald Trump's health as a result of him giving his speech in 100-degree weather. But we'll see. You know, we'll see. Anyway, anything else about that? It seems like, I don't know. It's just, like I said, of all the, yeah, this is like, I mean, and this is the world we live in right now. We've got serious things like Iran and SCOTUS and all this kind of stuff, but there's also a constant barrage of stupidity, like the State Fair, the Reflecting Pool, the Kennedy Center, the New Air Force One, you know, all of this kind of stuff, you know, it's just.
|
Sam:
[1:02:37]
| It's constant and it's nonstop. And you sort of, you can't ignore either side, right? I mean, there's the serious long-term things that are damaging to the country that are happening. And then there's the nonstop barrage of stupidity. And they're both, it's not that they're both important, but they're both critical to understanding the national moment, I guess. I don't know.
|
Ivan:
[1:03:08]
| Yeah, that, I mean, that is the main thing why I brought it up because it's just, it's the worst, one of the worst fucking celebrations that we've ever done for anything major. It, I mean, you try to tell me when the fuck as a nation did we try to celebrate anything that has looked as pathetic as this? Yeah, exactly. And, you know, to, to, to, to top it off, beef is at a record price right now. Okay. Which makes it that the 4th of July grilling season is, they said that demand hasn't gone down. But look, if people are spending that kind of money on beef, you know, they got to be cutting back on something else. Because beef is at record levels. Gas is, it's down from its peak. It's down a little, but it's not back to where it was. So gas is also expensive. So, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, people are miserable, you know? The war's really not over. I don't know what the fuck they're doing over there.
|
Sam:
[1:04:12]
| Well, you know, probably, well, one statement, and then we'll move on. They're probably just trying to, like, keep the status quo until after midterms. That's the bottom line. An occasional, like, little, you know, we shoot them, they shoot us for, like, a little bit, and then go back to the mall.
|
Ivan:
[1:04:33]
| So he's not going to sign an official deal until.
|
Sam:
[1:04:36]
| Old. I don't think the damn thing is going to happen until after midterms. There was that 60 day deadline on the current memo of understanding. It'll get extended two or three times, however much it takes. We will basically be in the same situation we are now until December or at least mid-November.
|
Ivan:
[1:04:56]
| Sounds fantastic.
|
Sam:
[1:04:59]
| Okay. I was going to say to wrap up the 4th of July celebration stuff. Maybe whoever's next will decide to just do a makeup event for the 253rd and say, okay, The 250th kind of got screwed up. We're going to do the 253rd and make it an all-out blowout to make up for it and do it right.
|
Ivan:
[1:05:26]
| Right. That would be something. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:05:28]
| You know, 253 is not like a big round number or anything, but, you know, you can pretend. You know, maybe for the 253rd, it can be a celebration of adding a few states. You know? Could be. like well well you know the because it traditionally new states actually officially like joined on the next fourth of july after it was all ratified and stuff, so if if you want a crowd for a fourth of july celebration in dc, make it the day dc becomes a state you will get that fucking crowd.
|
Ivan:
[1:06:09]
| You'll get a big you get you get you get get a huge crowd that's for sure yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:06:13]
| Anyway okay let's take a break and did we already we already took one break let's take a break and then we'll come back and i'll i'll pick a couple things to talk about i guess so here we go.
|
Sam:
[1:07:09]
| Okay. So getting a little bit more serious, we did have a bunch of SCOTUS results this week. So, you know, I should have taken the opportunity during the break to bring up a list of them. So I'd have them handy. But no, I did not. The one that got the most headlines, it's not necessarily, there's another that might be even more impactful. But let's start with the birthright citizenship case. We had officially a 6-3 ruling that said, oh, yes, in fact, the Constitution says what it looks like it says. Well, let me back up. The 6-3 ruling was keeping in place birthright citizenship, period.
|
Ivan:
[1:08:03]
| I have Justin says that that's what the Constitution is.
|
Sam:
[1:08:08]
| Gorsuch specifically said he didn't think there was a constitutional issue here, but there was a statute that did this so Congress could change it. So it was 6-4 officially, but 5-4 on the constitutional issue. And, even then, you know, there was some disagreement on the rationale and reasoning and blah, blah, blah. People pointed out look the real headline here is not that this survived it's how close it is to not survive well there should have been.
|
Ivan:
[1:08:42]
| 9-0 this shouldn't this is ridiculous.
|
Sam:
[1:08:46]
| Yes this is what a plain reading of the words kind of thing and you have like, people who consider themselves originalist who are like, well, no, we're not going to look at the congressional debates that led up to the 14th Amendment. We're going to look at the plain text and say, well, but they couldn't have actually meant that. So we're going to do this.
|
Ivan:
[1:09:12]
| That's the thing that really pisses me off. Because the plain text is very clear. And these guys, that doesn't mean that.
|
Sam:
[1:09:19]
| Right.
|
Ivan:
[1:09:20]
| And I'm like...
|
Sam:
[1:09:22]
| And this is, again, it's just a very, very close thing, which it's close enough, that you know they're already teeing up to try again. You know, next time they have an opportunity. There were rumors that Alito would retire today as we're recording it. I don't think it's happened yet, but there were rumors. NPR mistakenly posted a pre-written article And then took it down within less than 10 minutes And so that sparked a lot of speculation It's been speculated anyway, And, but, if we get this, Trump's going to get to appoint somebody else. Of course, Alito was one of the three, that were most core on this anyway. But.
|
Sam:
[1:10:20]
| All you need is one of the liberal justices or even one of the wishy-washy middle ones to get replaced by some, a new Trumpy young MAGA person. And they're where they need to be, you know, like, you know, something bad could happen to one of the liberal justices at any moment. They could get hit by a car. You never know, you know? So it's 6-3, like, especially like we, we've gotten used to 6-3 opinions on all kinds of stuff at this point. But again, And there's sort of the expectation. A lot of people thought this would be 9-0. But no, it was not.
|
Ivan:
[1:11:02]
| I mean, yeah, but look, the guys of the right wing were raging, saying all sorts of unhinged shit that that's... They were just saying all sorts of unhinged shit. But I guess the one thing is that on the counter, I saw a lot more people also basically saying after this list of decisions and a few other things that happened, campaign finance and other things that were decided.
|
Sam:
[1:11:35]
| Yeah, we'll talk about some of the others in a second.
|
Ivan:
[1:11:36]
| That, you know what? Fuck it. We have to, if we don't go scorched earth when we get control of this, basically by trying to either pack this court, do something, whatever, to just undo this, then we are failing. We need to go—we need to absolutely go scorched earth against all of this bullshit, period.
|
Sam:
[1:12:00]
| Yeah, and I definitely do see growing support for this. Of course, you would need a trifecta, you need the House, you need the Senate, and you need the presidency. So it's not happening this year—, And even if the Democrats managed to get the Senate, which is still, it's within the realm of possibility. It's in reach. It's within reach, but it's not like, oh my God, that's going to happen.
|
Ivan:
[1:12:26]
| It's not guaranteed. Yeah, but it's in reach.
|
Sam:
[1:12:27]
| Yeah. And the most recent polls I've seen on Senate races still show like the most likely outcome is still the Republicans retain the Senate barely. Okay? But you need all three. So the earliest you're talking about is 2029. And then you would need, you know, you would need majorities in both houses of Congress and without like swing voters like Manchin and Sinema who would like screw it up. You know, so, who knows?
|
Ivan:
[1:12:59]
| Because you need to kill the filibuster for it.
|
Sam:
[1:13:02]
| You need to at least kill the filibuster for that.
|
Ivan:
[1:13:05]
| I was going to say that if you get another mansion of cinema, you need to use, like, I'm going to go and, like, start borrowing Putin-style tactics. You know, oh, like what I told him, what he did with prerogion. I'm like, oh, yeah, you're not going to do it? Well, you know, your family, you know, it's like you value your family?
|
Sam:
[1:13:26]
| I'm not sure I'd go quite that far.
|
Ivan:
[1:13:29]
| Listen, I am right now at a point where this is like.
|
Sam:
[1:13:32]
| If you're willing to do that, you might as well just kidnap Clarence Thomas' family right now. Do that instead. Just to be clear, for anybody in the FBI listening, I am joking. I am not actually suggesting anybody do anything of that sort. It would be disastrous and bad. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.
|
Ivan:
[1:13:53]
| Obviously exaggerating. But you need to be as aggressive as possible with this kind of people that are not with the program.
|
Sam:
[1:14:04]
| Well, and look, I was listening to somebody. God, I wish I could. And people have done a number of different proposals on exactly what to do with the Supreme Court. People have talked about term limits for them. People have talked about, like, just every president automatically gets one nomination per year, and the court ends up whatever size it ends up. People have talked about, you know, the...
|
Sam:
[1:14:32]
| And just making it 13 to match the number of circuits. The one proposal I listened to is either last night or earlier this morning was somebody suggesting we actually make it much bigger. I forget the exact number he gave, but it was like closer to 30. And the reason he said that was that there are circuit courts that are that big. It was like 27 or 30 or something like that. It was an odd number that was in that range. Because there are circuit courts that are that big. They manage this fine, but it's also big enough that not every justice sits on every case. Instead, they do the thing where they pick three random justices to hear any particular case, and then after those three rule, the whole court can potentially, by majority vote, decide to override and do an inbound hearing. But by default, it just goes to this randomly selected group of three. And he gave two reasons for this. One is that if you had a big court and you need like 15 justices to agree, that even if you've got a bunch of conservative justices amongst that group, or a bunch of super liberals, to get 15 anybody to agree, you have to somewhat moderate what you're doing, because you need all of those people to come together. And it's just harder to get 15 people together than it is to get five people together.
|
Ivan:
[1:15:58]
| True.
|
Sam:
[1:15:59]
| That was number one. and, Second, the randomly selected panels of three mean that when you they're not randomly selected till after you've submitted your case, which means you wouldn't know. Are you going to get three conservatives, three liberals, three moderates? You don't know when you make your case. So you have to pitch the case more moderately to begin with because you don't know which judges you're going to get. And I thought that was a good idea. Some combination of all these things. It's just like the let's fix redistricting not by a redistricting law, but make the House of Representatives a thousand people, you know. You could fix it that way, too, you know, because basically the more districts you have, the less meaning, the harder it is to make really bad redistricting schemes. But you could do a lot of this. But again, it all comes down to willpower and, the willingness to actually just go in there, scorch earth, say, day one, we have to do SCOTUS. And the reason you have to do SCOTUS day one before you do anything else is otherwise they're just going to declare anything you do unconstitutional.
|
Sam:
[1:17:14]
| So you have to start there. But anyway, the other big thing they did, and I shouldn't say the other, like they've done a bunch of significant things this term. But the other thing this week that is worth mentioning is they ruled on the president's ability to fire people at independent agencies. So ever since the early 20th century, we've had a notion of Congress creating independent agencies that are intentionally isolated from the politics of the moment. They generally are run by commissioners and boards that have terms that are longer than a presidential term and are staggered so that you've got members.
|
Sam:
[1:18:08]
| Appointed by various different presidents. And the design was that the president, while they could still fire them, would need a reason, would need a good reason. And basically, between the combination of several cases they heard, Supreme Court decided, no, the, president can fire whoever they want for whatever reason, except the Fed. They carved out an exception for the Federal Reserve. But for everything else, the president can do whatever they want, which means that you basically are destroying the idea of independent agencies that can operate—, without being subject to the day-to-day whims of the president. And the notion is these are congressionally created agencies. They're supposed to be run in a specific way. The argument of the Supreme Court is, well, no, they have to be subject to the president because if they're not subject to the president, they're not subject to the people. And that's not how we do things in democracies.
|
Ivan:
[1:19:17]
| I don't understand that argument. But what do you it's like he's talking like like the like the like the representatives aren't elected like like our legislature is not elected. They are subject to the people. I know it's just but they are they have made it that everything is now subject to one person.
|
Sam:
[1:19:35]
| Right.
|
Ivan:
[1:19:35]
| I mean, because because the legislature could pass something and then the president could just decide, whatever.
|
Sam:
[1:19:41]
| Um yeah basically i mean and they've they've done a lot of rulings at this point that basically take, laws the president basically unlimited power they've they've taken laws that the congress has passed and say it said well yeah but the president can kind of do what they want anyway, because the Congress can't restrict the executive branch in this way. And repeatedly over and over and over again, the theme is, yes, presidential power. And, you know, and the power of the court, of course, because I've seen people point out, and I agree with this wholeheartedly, and I think I've said this before on this show, They are not really giving this kind of unlimited power to the president. They are giving themselves the power to decide. Because you goddamn know, that if a Democratic president came in and tried to wield power in the same way that Donald Trump has been wielding power, they would find some reason to say, no, that's bullshit. They can't do that.
|
Ivan:
[1:21:00]
| Most probably, yes.
|
Sam:
[1:21:01]
| You know didn't we see.
|
Ivan:
[1:21:03]
| This already with.
|
Sam:
[1:21:04]
| Student Biden yeah, you've definitely seen that and look the other thing is again a lot of these people claim to sort of be originalists and textualists and all this kind of stuff.
|
Ivan:
[1:21:22]
| Blah blah blah blah blah.
|
Sam:
[1:21:24]
| If you actually look at the founding and the constitutional convention and stuff I mean, the whole damn Constitution practically is designed to keep power out of the hands of a single individual.
|
Ivan:
[1:21:39]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[1:21:40]
| It's all about balance of power and setting up, you know, and Article 1 was first for a reason. If you ask any of the founders, they would have thought of things as, you know, Congress runs things.
|
Ivan:
[1:21:56]
| Good news, Sam.
|
Sam:
[1:21:57]
| The president just does what Congress, like, they execute the laws.
|
Ivan:
[1:22:01]
| I don't believe this, but as we talked about the Great American State Fair closes. The National Mall event is shut down temporarily due to triple-digit heat.
|
Sam:
[1:22:12]
| Ah, okay. Because this is not the first time. It's happened a couple times this week, right?
|
Ivan:
[1:22:17]
| I don't recall, but this is the first time I've seen it happen.
|
Sam:
[1:22:20]
| Well, you sent out a picture of them showing that it was closed for bad weather that had a misspelling of freedom on the picture.
|
Ivan:
[1:22:26]
| Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that one they said was thunderstorms. This is heat.
|
Sam:
[1:22:31]
| Oh, okay. Well, it happens. You know, I mean, this is a really bad heat wave, but hot weather in D.C. In July shouldn't be a surprise anyway.
|
Ivan:
[1:22:46]
| No, I mean, I've swept my balls off in D.C. in July. Let me tell you something. Oh, it's so humid. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:22:55]
| Yeah, I used to live in that area. Yeah, it's hot. Just as a comparison, by the way, right now it's 63 where I am on the West Coast. And to me, I know 63 is like horribly cold for you, Yvonne, but to me, mid-60s, perfect. That's how the weather should always be. Like if I had to pick a temperature, the mid-60s would be it. Yeah. For outdoors. Inside, my thermostat is pegged at 70 year round. But like outside, mid-60s is perfect. Yeah. So anyway, that was SCOTUS. One more newsy thing, and we'll see. Mitch McConnell.
|
Ivan:
[1:23:43]
| Is he dead?
|
Sam:
[1:23:44]
| I don't think he's dead, but I do think he's in the ICU on life support. And, you know, he's probably not conscious. The most recent reports was that he was brought to the hospital after a 911 call when his staff found him unresponsive and he was revived by CPR. And the outcome in that case where someone is found already unresponsive and needing CPR, as opposed to someone acting immediately on seeing them collapse or whatever, of his age, with an unknown amount of time he was down before he was revived, chances of full recovery are very small. You know, and so no one from his team is giving a real update. You know, so we don't know. I think the people who are speculating that he's already dead and people just aren't saying, no, no. If he was actually dead, we would know. But they're not revealing his actual situation. So I suspect it's quite grave.
|
Ivan:
[1:24:56]
| He could be a vegetable, like right now.
|
Sam:
[1:24:58]
| That might, who knows? Maybe. That is not entirely impossible. People have also been, there's been a lot of misinformation flowing about, like, they want to keep him on life support until after a certain deadline so that the governor can't appoint a replacement and he goes and it has to wait till the next special election to get a replacement.
|
Future Sam:
[1:25:21]
| Do, do, do. Sam from the future here. And I am about to contribute to that misinformation. Everything I'm about to say about the process for replacing Mitch McConnell in the next few minutes is wrong. Oops. So after I'm done, I'll explain. But yeah. Yeah. Oops. Doo doo doo.
|
Sam:
[1:25:49]
| But they're neglecting the fact that when the current Democratic governor of Kentucky was elected, right then, between the election and when he took office, as happened with a whole bunch of other states, the Republican legislature and the outgoing governor made sure to reduce that governor's power. And one of the things they did was make sure that the Democratic governor could not appoint a Democratic senator. In fact, it works very similar to how things work here in Washington state for, you know, if folks remember, my wife, Brandy, ended up appointed to the state legislature.
|
Sam:
[1:26:28]
| And the way that that works is also the way that Kentucky works. Basically, the Republican Party in Kentucky would give the governor the name of three candidates. The governor would get to pick between those three candidates, but he can't just go pick some random Democrat. He can't pick a Republican who's a Republican in name only and not in the traditional rhino sense, but who just became a Republican for convenience to be nominated. Can't do anything like that. He has to pick from names given to him by the Republican Party of Kentucky. So it's not like, you know, oh, we'll keep him in life support for months so that we can just jump straight to the special election because we can't let the Democrat pick somebody. Because, I mean, it's technically true, but the Democrat is constrained in who they can pick, even in that scenario. So it kind of doesn't make sense. Like.
|
Future Sam:
[1:27:29]
| Do, do, do. Okay, here's the real deal. So what I described was actually what Kentucky already had before Governor Beshear got into place. So Governor Beshear, a Democratic governor of Kentucky already would not have been able to nominate a Republican or a Democrat. They would have been forced to nominate a Republican and a Republican that was chosen by the Republican Party. So they would give three choices and he'd have to pick from it. That's how it was before. When Governor Bashir got elected, what they changed it to, or specifically, I guess they changed the law in 2024. Yes, new law on vacancies in 2024. for, which basically made it so the governor, couldn't replace a Senate vacancy at all. They would have to wait for a special election. And so the controversy on timing right now that people are talking about is actually whether you have a special election at all or whether you wait to the next regular election. And apparently there is a deadline related to that coming up in like five weeks or something. Like, yeah, I believe it's the beginning of August. So if Mitch McConnell dies or leaves office in some other way in the next few weeks, then there will be a special election.
|
Future Sam:
[1:28:56]
| Followed by a regular election, whereas if he makes it past that, then they'll just be a regular election, and you won't have that interim short-term senator in between. So that's apparently the thing, and there's some dynamics, and they assume, like, you know, whether Thomas Massey would be in play and whether that would be different in the dynamics for a special election versus a real election versus a whatever. Anyway, so there is some like.
|
Future Sam:
[1:29:28]
| Would they play around with when to pull the plug if he's in a situation where pulling the plug is a possibility because he's already brain dead or whatever, simply to manipulate what kind of election and what timing of that election would be. And I've seen some people comment that Mitch McConnell would love that that's exactly the kind of like game playing he always liked to do, so anyway that is the clarification sorry for the misinformation and yeah back to the show do do do.
|
Sam:
[1:30:03]
| Take you know if he's in but having said that he may linger quite a while in whatever state he's in and who who the hell knows. Maybe all these rumors are wrong. He's actually well on the way to recovery and he'll show up next week. But let's be honest, he hasn't been looking good for the last year anyway. Maybe two years. You know, Mitch McConnell has...
|
Ivan:
[1:30:29]
| Well, yeah, he's been freezing and stuff. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:30:32]
| He's been freezing. He's been falling. He's been less coherent. You know, we had the same kind of thing with Dianne Feinstein on the Democratic side, where, you know, somebody who clearly, clearly was in physical and mental decline just would not resign. And was hanging on. They, I mean, Mitch McConnell had announced he's not running again. There are people actively running to replace him right now. You know, so I don't know, but like he was not in good shape anyway. The reports are he had a heart attack and he was actually an arrest and that he had to be revived and he was down for an unknown amount of time. All of these things are not pointing towards a good outcome for him. It's just, I don't know how long until we know. But, and to be honest, since he stepped down as majority leader, Mitch McConnell has been one of the few Republican votes willing to regularly go against Donald Trump.
|
Ivan:
[1:31:41]
| You know, sorry, but that doesn't redeem him to me in any way.
|
Sam:
[1:31:48]
| Oh, back to the McNamara idea.
|
Ivan:
[1:31:52]
| Yeah, I don't think that he did a fucking mea culpa about any of the fucking. Listen, he is the reason why the Supreme Court is the way it is right now.
|
Sam:
[1:32:03]
| Yes, he absolutely is. It was his major project for most of his time in the Senate was, let's do SCOTUS. I mean, and certainly his time as majority leader. And he came up with the hardball techniques that kept Obama from nominating somebody to replace Scalia, which would have made a huge difference. An enormous difference. Because it wouldn't have just been replace a liberal with another liberal. It would have been replace a conservative with a liberal, in the same way that Trump got to replace a liberal with a conservative and made a huge difference.
|
Ivan:
[1:32:44]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[1:32:45]
| You know, and so, yeah, he did all that. And I'd say the other thing is he clearly, after January 6th, knew that what Trump had done was overboard and all reports were he was considering, voting for the impeachment in the trial. And if he had done so, there might have been others who had gone. They might have. I mean, the impeachment trial was after Donald Trump had actually left office. But if McConnell had at that time, voted for it and encouraged his other people to do so, too, they may well have impeached him, in which case he could have been barred from running again.
|
Sam:
[1:33:38]
| And we could have avoided the second term entirely. Mitch McConnell could have—and we could have still—by the way, we could have still had a Republican president, just not Donald Trump. You know, you never know. But McConnell decided instead to go with a line of, A, it's too late. He's not president anymore. There's no point in doing this. And if he was guilty of stuff—and I think he was—he gave a speech that pretty much said this. The courts should take care of it. He should be prosecuted and indicted and convicted through the court system. And of course, we all know what ended up happening with that. So anyway, nanny. So you want to hit anything else or should we wrap it up a little early?
|
Ivan:
[1:34:25]
| No, let's wrap it up.
|
Sam:
[1:34:27]
| Okay. You know, so yeah, I got, I got Europeans and AC on my list. Europeans don't like AC.
|
Ivan:
[1:34:37]
| Actually, no, no, no. I don't. I don't. But I actually, there was a whole bunch of articles talking about how Europeans came over here like during this heat wave, during the AC, and they were like, oh, my God, this is so nice.
|
Sam:
[1:34:49]
| Well, we didn't talk about a World Cup thing. One of the themes has been all these Europeans coming in not just AC, but like looking at Walmart, looking at the restaurants, looking at this, looking at, you know.
|
Ivan:
[1:35:02]
| It's just different. I mean, I go over there and I, you know, we, you know, you, you, you, you know, you get impressed by so many of the things that they have as well. I, I think it's, you know, a lot of people are visiting and they're getting to experience certain things for the first time and they like those, but you know, like everything, there's pluses and minuses to all of these things. So, yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:35:20]
| And anyway, all I'll say is I have been amused by, first of all, watching the Europeans in the U.S. for the World Cup. And a lot of them have been amusing to watch. But also on this AC thing, you know, seeing videos on TikTok, both of, you know, Europeans trying to justify why it's better without AC than other Europeans saying, fuck this, I'm trying to get an AC and I can't because they're all sold out and I desperately want one because it's so damn hot. And then Americans chastising and laughing at them saying, why the hell don't you already have AC? Are you guys crazy? And other Europeans trying to justify that back to the Americans. It's just been an amusing dialogue back and forth of the whole thing. Anyway, if you haven't seen some of this, go seek it out. It's fun.
|
Ivan:
[1:36:10]
| That is one thing that is for sure. I mean, I've seen, look, there have been, people doing all these runs on buying air conditioners, and you know because of the heat wave look i i understand the concern with energy consumption but also at the same time it all depends on what the power source is i mean like you go to a place like france where most of our power is like nuclear for god's sakes not exactly like you know, Okay, I don't, you know, you're not really contributing to global warming. I plug it into the air conditioners. However, the one thing that they've got is that the grid, how much, you know, it's getting overtaxed as well. And that's happening also.
|
Sam:
[1:36:56]
| And also in some European countries, it depends on the country, there are actually currently laws that really prohibit where and when and how you can do this. and what kind of installations are okay.
|
Ivan:
[1:37:09]
| In most places, the problem isn't so much the loss. It's just that the buildings were not made to have air conditioners. So, you know, it's difficult to...
|
Sam:
[1:37:22]
| There's a difference between retrofit the whole thing for central air versus having a window unit. And the shape of the windows is different than most window units are made for, but you can get around that too, versus the portable units where you have to stick a hose out and then do the thing. But there are ways to work around all this if you want to. And anyway, the one other thing I just thought of, you know, we mentioned how not, you know, I am not a sports person. I don't follow sports at all. But one thing that I have been noting recently, again, because it showed up a lot on my TikTok feed, that I've been sort of following in the background is this woman who's been rowing from California to Hawaii. Have you been following this at all, Yvonne?
|
Ivan:
[1:38:05]
| No.
|
Sam:
[1:38:07]
| So there's this woman, her intention on leaving California was to be the first woman to row solo from California to Hawaii, okay? She's due to arrive there, like she may have arrived while we were recording, any moment now. She's due to arrive in Hawaii today. But not only has she succeeded and being the first woman to do this row solo.
|
Sam:
[1:38:34]
| She is also breaking the record for not only the women's record for this row, I guess of people who aren't solo as well, I'm not sure about that, but also she's breaking the men's record by a lot. Like the previous record for rowing from California to Hawaii was like 60 days. She's making it at like 42 or something. So like, and apparently only like 12 people have ever done this. But like anyway she's she's apparently breaking the record and she's been and the reason i've been seeing this on tiktok is of course this is like she's not like some dinky little robot she's got like a nice fully kitted out robot robot robot well, whatever whatever you call the thing but anyway it's got full internet whatever and she's been posting like daily updates on tiktok sometimes more than one a day, from the middle of the Pacific Ocean, of her journey as she goes along. And anyway, she's about to get there or has gotten there in the last few minutes, I don't know. And she's apparently...
|
Sam:
[1:39:43]
| Not only beaten the women's record, not only beaten the men's record, but she's crushed the men's record by a significant margin over the previous record. So, anyway. I thought that was worth noting. Of course, you know, she looks very sunburned at this point.
|
Ivan:
[1:40:02]
| No shit.
|
Sam:
[1:40:06]
| Anyway.
|
Ivan:
[1:40:07]
| I can see how that could be a problem.
|
Sam:
[1:40:11]
| That's all I got. Shall we say goodbye?
|
Ivan:
[1:40:14]
| Well, one thing.
|
Sam:
[1:40:15]
| I forgot one more thing too.
|
Ivan:
[1:40:15]
| One newsy, well, one newsy item, my newsy item. Not, not, not things that we didn't discuss. Somebody got their Trump phone finally.
|
Sam:
[1:40:25]
| Oh yeah. They've been, I've been watching a bunch of tech YouTubers start to get those over the last couple of weeks. And I guess they're slowly coming out. So, yeah. Apparently they're crap.
|
Ivan:
[1:40:37]
| I finally got my Trump phone. It's gold, tacky, and had a tiny scratch right out of the box.
|
Sam:
[1:40:43]
| Yes.
|
Ivan:
[1:40:44]
| So it already came pre-scratch for you. It doesn't really look very gold.
|
Sam:
[1:40:49]
| It just looks yellow. It's definitely yellow.
|
Ivan:
[1:40:51]
| Yeah, it's not gold. My phone came with a free Trump mobile SIM, even though I have not signed up to the company's mobile plan, plus an A4 quick start guide that was quite clearly printed on a standard office printer. Inside the box, there is a SIM tool, clear plastic case, charger, gold and black braided USB-C cable that feels remarkably cheap. Then you get a second set of instructions, this time with a tiny booklet that covers everything from initial setup to how to make a phone call, Sam, or take a photo with a camera.
|
Sam:
[1:41:30]
| Very nice. Yeah. Like I said, a few tech YouTubers have been getting them over. Over the last couple of weeks, this was your article with the people at The Verge got it.
|
Ivan:
[1:41:40]
| Yeah, and he has not been able to use it, but here's the thing. He's been able to make calls, but no data connectivity.
|
Sam:
[1:41:48]
| Yeah. Well, he was also in Europe. So maybe he pointed out maybe it really is intended as a US only phone. It would be on brand. But yeah, so far, none of the initial impressions that I've heard. I haven't watched a full review. I'm not sure I'm ever going to. But of the initial impressions I've heard, all of them are like, this is kind of a mediocre crap budget phone. Of course, it didn't have a budget price tag, I don't think, but it's a rebranded standard Android, cheap Android, not flagship Android type phone.
|
Ivan:
[1:42:26]
| Cheap Android, yes. Very critical. It's definitely not a high quality iPhone.
|
Sam:
[1:42:33]
| Yeah. And there are, you know, this is not an iPhone versus Android thing. There are, like, high quality flagship Android phones. This just isn't one of them. And, of course, they at one point changed their whole promise that it would be fully made in the USA. That's long gone. It's long gone. So, it is what it is. I'm sure yours will arrive any moment now.
|
Ivan:
[1:43:00]
| Ivan. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I ordered two of them.
|
Sam:
[1:43:04]
| Of course.
|
Ivan:
[1:43:06]
| I mean, you'll be getting yours soon.
|
Sam:
[1:43:07]
| I'm surprised only two. Oh, one for me.
|
Ivan:
[1:43:09]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:43:09]
| Well, thank you. Thank you so much.
|
Ivan:
[1:43:11]
| Yeah, I know. I know you were waiting for it.
|
Sam:
[1:43:14]
| I was. Okay, let's wrap it up. Thanks for listening for another episode of Curmudgeons Corner. Go to our website, curmudgeons-corner.com. Yeah, it's a thing. You can go there, see all the ways to contact us, see all our old episodes. See? Well, listen to. Listen to our old episodes, read some of the transcripts. The last couple of years I've had transcripts. before that, you're out of luck, sorry. Yeah. What else? What else can I say about, oh, yeah, go to our Patreon, give us money. At various levels, you can see, well, no, am I confusing myself? At various levels, we'll mention you on the show, we will ring a bell, we will send you a postcard, we will send you a mug, all that sort of thing, at $2 a month or more. Or if you ask nicely and we like you, we will let you, we will invite you to our Commissions Corner Slack, where throughout the week, Yvonne and I and others are chatting and sharing links and all this kind of stuff. So in a second, I'm going to ask Yvonne for something from the Slack that would be enticing that we have not mentioned on the show. But I want to note, just within the last couple of weeks, like apparently Slack has updated their Slack bot to be like a full AI chat bot, which it wasn't before.
|
Ivan:
[1:44:43]
| No.
|
Sam:
[1:44:44]
| And we have not experimented with it at all.
|
Ivan:
[1:44:47]
| I have. No, I haven't.
|
Sam:
[1:44:50]
| But apparently it could do things. Like I could ask Slack bot, look at the conversation on the Slack in the last week and give me something to highlight. And it would do it. instead of me asking Yvonne. And I don't know if I can let it, there might be a way to make it participate in our chats as well. I'm not sure if I'd like that or not. But, you know, anyway, they've upgraded Slackbot. And it can do stuff now. Well, it could always do stuff, but it was much more limited. Apparently it's less limited now. Yvonne is scowling. Anyway, Yvonne, we can have Slackbot do this for us next week, maybe. But in the meantime, what's your pick?
|
Ivan:
[1:45:32]
| But that was my pick, the gold phone.
|
Sam:
[1:45:35]
| Oh, that was your gold.
|
Ivan:
[1:45:36]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:45:37]
| I always ask for your pick after the thing.
|
Ivan:
[1:45:40]
| I thought you were forgetting to say we're going to be done. And I'm like, wait, no.
|
Sam:
[1:45:45]
| Well, that means it's time for me to do my itch. When I say, well, shall we wrap it up? It means I go to the intro and then we do this. Okay, the Slack thing. Well, not now.
|
Ivan:
[1:45:54]
| All right, now I got to do another thing. Okay, fine. Fine.
|
Sam:
[1:45:58]
| Or you could ask that.
|
Ivan:
[1:45:58]
| Fine. Fine. Let me see. Well, there are a few things. Let me see. I'll go with Hunter Biden mockingly nominates Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize for ending the same war with Iran 38 times.
|
Sam:
[1:46:17]
| Very good.
|
Ivan:
[1:46:18]
| Yeah, that would be hilarious, I guess. if, you know, I wonder if he'll accept the nomination from Hunter. I actually think that he would accept it even from Hunter because he's so desperate for that damn prize.
|
Sam:
[1:46:32]
| Well, he already has the FIFA Peace Prize.
|
Ivan:
[1:46:35]
| Correct, yes.
|
Sam:
[1:46:36]
| That's better.
|
Ivan:
[1:46:38]
| Yeah, well. And he's got the plane.
|
Sam:
[1:46:41]
| He's got the plane. The Peace Plan.
|
Ivan:
[1:46:44]
| Which somebody noticed was stocked with the Qatari plane at shelves with books, but they weren't real books. They just said books on them.
|
Sam:
[1:46:54]
| Okay, so I did ask Slackbot. My prompt was, what was the most interesting and exciting thing discussed on the Slack in the last seven days that might make someone new want to join? And of course it couldn't follow instructions. It didn't give me one item. It gave me four. Okay.
|
Ivan:
[1:47:12]
| I will pick the first one.
|
Sam:
[1:47:14]
| I'll give you, we can do these. We knew all four. They're short. Number one, the highlight of the week was Ed sharing a vivid real-time travelogue from a cruise through the Prince Christian Sound. Their ship was literally the first to complete the transit of the year. A previous vessel had to turn back due to icebergs.
|
Ivan:
[1:47:37]
| Oh, yeah, yeah. And that was like this week. Okay, I forgot that it was this week.
|
Sam:
[1:47:40]
| Mountain ranges, glaciers, wildlife, a fancy Viking chef table dinner, and a blessed 18 hours with almost no news, a genuine gem of a post. That was its number one choice. Number two, AOC for president. A lively debate broke out in the General Channel about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez potentially running for president. Yvonne Bowe was pretty enthusiastic. I wouldn't hesitate to vote for her. She is so damn sharp. The discussion touched on whether she should build more Senate experience first versus striking while the iron is hot. Even Slackbot had opinions about the language used. Slackbot jumped in and yelled at you for swearing or something.
|
Ivan:
[1:48:23]
| Yeah, well, that's standard operation procedure.
|
Sam:
[1:48:26]
| Big picture historical analysis. Ed again. Ed dropped a thoughtful post referencing Neil Howe's cynical, cyclical theory of history. The idea that we may be in a chaotic fourth turning that historically predates a period of growth and democratic renewal. The parallel to today's rise of young progressive politicians made for a genuinely interesting read. And finally, number four, DOJ versus Epstein files. Some eyebrow-raising news was shared this morning. The DOJ declining to turn over additional Epstein files despite a federal judge's order, the kind of thing that tends to spark strong reactions. And then it summarizes. In short, Curmudgeon's Corner is a place for people who like sharp political commentary, global current events, and the occasional adventure story with a refreshingly unfiltered tone. There you go.
|
Sam:
[1:49:19]
| And with that, we will go away, and I will do other things for the rest of today. Tomorrow, I'm doing a parade. I'm doing fireworks. I'm doing all the traditional Fourth of July stuff. And then I'll probably put the show out actually on Sunday. We'll see. Maybe I'll get to it early. I don't know. Probably not. I don't know. Whatever. Anyway, stay safe. Oh, and for any of you out there, this won't go out until after the 4th is over, so I'll put it into retrospective. I hope you weren't stupid enough to light off your own fireworks and destroy your hands. Or your lives.
|
Ivan:
[1:49:59]
| Or your eyes.
|
Sam:
[1:50:01]
| Or your eyes. Yeah, absolutely. I hope you went to a professional show and watched it and had fun. And I understand setting off your own is fun. I did it many, many years ago, but so many people get badly hurt. It's just a bad idea. Just go see the professional ones. Or I guess it's too late now. Again, hope you didn't die. Hope you didn't mangle yourself. Okay, here we go. Bye, folks. Say goodbye, Yvonne.
|
Ivan:
[1:50:32]
| Bye!
|
Sam:
[1:51:04]
| Okay and hitting stop yvonne have a good rest of your day thanks for doing this a day early All right.
|
Ivan:
[1:51:11]
| Let's do this. Okay. Let's see.
| |
|
