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Ep 877[Ep 878] Baguettes and Butter [1:57:16]
Recorded: Sat, 2024-Apr-06 UTC
Published: Mon, 2024-Apr-08 13:33 UTC
Ep 879
On this week's Curmudgeon's Corner, Ivan and Sam do the routine discussion of Trump's current legal and financial woes. The other major newsy topic for the first time in a long time is the situation in Gaza. But before these things, a discussion of unexpected AI generated nudity, the phenomenon of cultural flattening between generations, and a look at the movie "Knock Down the House".
  • (0:00:54-0:41:49) But First
    • Unexpected AI Nudity
    • Cultural Flattening
    • Movie: Knock Down the House (2019)
  • (0:43:51-1:15:17) Trump Stuff
    • DJT Stock
    • Trump Bond Drama
    • Trump Financial Trouble
    • Trump Legal Developments
    • Covering Trump
  • (1:16:21-1:56:42) Gaza
    • Seven vs Thousands
    • War Crimes
    • Netanyahu
    • Biden
    • What's Next?

Automated Transcript

Sam:
[0:00]
Hello.

Ivan:
[0:02]
Well, it did work with last week's link.

Sam:
[0:05]
Yeah, I thought it would.

Ivan:
[0:08]
Oh, well. Okay. That's one thing we uncovered.

Sam:
[0:15]
Okay. So.

You're ready to go? I figure we don't have to talk about anything. Because we never do.

Ivan:
[0:25]
Let's go.

Sam:
[0:27]
Here we go.

Welcome to Curmudgeon's Corner for Saturday, April 6th, 2024.

It is just seconds before 2.30 UTC as we're starting to record.

I am Sam Minter and Yvonne Bo is here. Hello, Yvonne.

Ivan:
[1:07]
Are you Sam Minter? You're not an AI clone of Sam Minter?

Sam:
[1:12]
You'll never know, will you?

Ivan:
[1:14]
Well, I mean, you're not naked.

Sam:
[1:16]
Are AI clones usually naked? I guess they sometimes are.

Ivan:
[1:20]
Well, didn't you see? I mean, didn't you share the story about...

Sam:
[1:26]
Oh, the lottery website thing?

Ivan:
[1:29]
Yes the lottery website where some some lady is like oh look i can upload myself like after i win millions let me see what it is and apparently it means that if she's going to be winning millions is that she's going to be you know going to the beach topless yeah which as one does well i mean as many people do to be to be fair well.

Sam:
[1:52]
Yes yes but apparently this apparently this is not what the lottery site and this was the washington state lottery website this is not what they.

Ivan:
[2:03]
Intended it's not no.

Sam:
[2:05]
No and so they they turned the feature off.

Ivan:
[2:09]
You know i mean it would have been funnier if it would have been men naked i'm gonna say you know.

Sam:
[2:18]
Yeah it's hilarious.

Ivan:
[2:19]
Yes i would have i would have found that you delirious of like oh look oh look look at this.

It's like, I have like a whole bunch of guys like holding arms.

Then all of a sudden we just show a whole bunch of dicks. That would have been great.

Sam:
[2:35]
Okay. Vaughn. I think the intention was, Hey, here's you in front of a fancy car. Here's you in front of a nice house. Here's you like.

Ivan:
[2:42]
Not here's you naked.

Sam:
[2:45]
Yeah. I don't think that was the intention. Of course, as our curmudgeons corner, uh, listener, but I specifically Slack follower.

As Greg mentioned on the Commodity Score Slack when we talked about this, she was not naked.

It was not... She was just topless.

Ivan:
[3:06]
What do you... I mean... Okay, isn't that a degree of nakedness?

To be topless? I mean, what are we going to semantics here? You're going on...

No, no, no, no. Wait, wait.

Sam:
[3:18]
If you are wearing a sock, you are not naked.

Ivan:
[3:21]
Okay. I mean, you're like, you know, a girlfriend that, you know, you're doing, remember, that agreed with the Clinton analogy of what constitutes sex.

Sam:
[3:36]
What is, is, is.

Ivan:
[3:39]
Which is basically, basically, if there's no penetration, it's not sex.

That oral doesn't count. So you're doing the same thing with nakedness now.

out well basically it's all in you're all in or all out it's either you know i mean if i have if i basically just i have a glove on you're not naked i'm not naked no.

Sam:
[4:06]
Not at all.

Ivan:
[4:06]
Interesting way of i think a lot of people might disagree if you're.

Sam:
[4:11]
Wearing a hat.

Ivan:
[4:12]
If i'm wearing a hat you know i gotta go to the beach next time it's just just wearing a hat that's it yeah.

Sam:
[4:21]
There you go i.

Ivan:
[4:23]
Mean i mean there are beaches around here that are nude you.

Sam:
[4:25]
Have you have to pick the right beach otherwise people.

Ivan:
[4:28]
No no no we have some i mean we do have some fully nude beaches yes of course yes uh i mean i i you know that's that's not a big deal i mean we i mean the one thing it in a... Here's the interesting thing.

Miami Beach is technically not one that supposedly allows supposedly women to be topless.

Sam:
[4:48]
But it's common anyway.

Ivan:
[4:50]
Because so many people come from places where that's not an issue, and they don't really think about it.

It's not like they've got signs around saying, hey, don't take your stuff off that they're just like, oh, whatever. So you really go to the beach and, I mean, I, I mean, to me, that's, it's like not, not really that much of a big deal, but I, I, I don't know.

I think I've mentioned this before, but for some people, you know, it's been a long time.

Listen, but you know, we had once this group office picture when I was at Hewlett Packard a long time ago and our Latin America VP had had an event for us and it would happen to be at Miami beach.

And, you know, they took some group pictures that were realized, and this was before people were already skilled with Photoshop.

I'm thinking, I don't want to even think, no, no, no, we did use a digital camera because we were making HP digital cameras.

I don't think anybody was skilled enough with a Photoshop to be able to blur out all of a sudden when they realized all the topless women that were actually on the beach at the time.

And, you know, I don't think that to go to the intranet at H, I think it was called it back then, HB.Now.

And we put this group photo and we're, we're standing in front of, you got about a hundred employees and they're all standing in front of a whole bunch of topless women that probably would not have gone over well.

Sam:
[6:10]
Yeah, I can imagine. No. No. Yeah.

Ivan:
[6:13]
So, so the pictures were not used.

Sam:
[6:16]
I understand. So now, you know, when you launched into this, you know, I was, of course, going to give the agenda, which is we're having our but first segment right now.

Ivan:
[6:27]
The agenda. We have an agenda. We have an agenda.

Sam:
[6:30]
OK, well, we don't really have an agenda because it has been like many months since Yvonne and I have actually planned out in advance what we're going to talk about.

But we do have a general structure that we've been sticking with, which is that we have a but first segment where Yvonne and I just talk about, I guess, things like this and that are sort of interesting.

Well, hopefully interesting. In fact, they're probably usually boring.

I don't know. But like things that aren't specifically related to the news of the day.

Ivan:
[7:03]
Frothy.

Sam:
[7:03]
Or at least the serious news of the day. It's the light and frothy stuff.

Ivan:
[7:08]
Frothy. Frothy, frothy, it's full of froth.

Sam:
[7:11]
And then after this first segment, then we will talk about sort of your more standard current events, newsy sort of things that have been going on.

Ivan:
[7:19]
You're sugary high.

Sam:
[7:22]
Sugary high. Yes. So Yvonne, was AI making topless pictures of women who wanted to just see themselves rich your topic for this segment? Or did you have something else?

Ivan:
[7:37]
I'm thinking that maybe you know hey isn't that just being accomplished isn't that like definition of being rich you're just doing whatever the fuck you want well yeah i mean based on the current definition of what billionaires and people you know they were doing like right now like elon musk or whatever hey you know let me just show how racist i am so basically if you decide ah whatever oh they're you know i don't care here look everybody here's my here are my movies there you go i.

Sam:
[8:01]
I i thought i you were gonna say that this is clearly why why Elon Musk does all of his press conferences nude.

Ivan:
[8:08]
I would say that would be...

That would be interesting.

Sam:
[8:12]
You did say you really wanted more nude men around.

Ivan:
[8:17]
Well, I didn't say, okay, let me be clear. I, well, yeah, sure. Why not? What the hell?

I mean, you know, look, here's a reality.

I do think that we overdose a lot, like the, the, the, the, the, the people with like nude women. So what the hell not?

I mean, I'm sure it's all a bunch of people want to see nude men.

And we certainly don't give them enough of that. So, like, come on.

Equal opportunity. That's all I'm saying.

Sam:
[8:44]
And I did misrepresent what Greg said on our Commodions Corner Slack.

He did not, like, argue whether it was nudity or not. He said it wasn't.

Like, the headlines about this called it porn.

Ivan:
[8:57]
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. It wasn't porn. It was just, you know, yeah.

And people called it soft porn. And I'm like, well, I don't disagree with, you know, That was like, back in the Cinemax days of...

Sam:
[9:12]
Well, no, even soft... You could have nudity in PG-13 movies.

Ivan:
[9:19]
Like, yeah, it's a good point. Yeah, no, it's a good point. It's a, yeah, no, no.

Sam:
[9:23]
You'd have to be doing something to make it porn.

Ivan:
[9:27]
True, true, true. He's a very, very valid point.

Sam:
[9:30]
Like, there's all sorts of artistic or incidental nudity that is not porn.

Ivan:
[9:38]
That is true. That is true. I agree. Okay. No, that wasn't the thing.

I will say that the one thing that caught my interest this week, there was a conversation about some guy saying to...

to somebody that I saw on the internet. Hey, Gen X, if you're talking to your young people about the 80s, you know, like a lot of whatever, you sound like this guy from the 40s that was talking, you know, back in the 80s that was telling you about the stuff that happened in the 40s.

Sam:
[10:14]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[10:15]
Well, you know what? No, it's not the same.

Sam:
[10:20]
Why not?

Ivan:
[10:21]
Well, here's something that I have noticed about where we are right now, culturally versus back then. There's been a flattening.

Sam:
[10:31]
There is.

Ivan:
[10:32]
Of the cultural change that's happened over the last couple of hundred years.

Sam:
[10:38]
One example that I, it came up in a discussion, I was at like a work dinner or something like a few months back, and this came up. It's just like music.

Ivan:
[10:49]
Right.

Sam:
[10:49]
Like, you know, right now, like most, I'm not going to say all, but it is very common for young people today to be very conversant with the music, at least from the 1960s forward, sometimes from the 1940s forward.

Ivan:
[11:09]
Right. Not the 40s as much, but yeah, but more 60, but I will say the predominant is the 60s forward. Yes.

Sam:
[11:17]
Well, and the reason is because, and, and, you know, the person I was talking to who is roughly our age, maybe slightly younger was sort of expressing wonder at this because like they're.

Sam:
[11:31]
Their younger coworkers or whatever knew some of these references to older stuff.

And she's like, I had no idea of music that old when I was a kid.

And it's like, well, remember like back in the day, you had a limited number of radio stations, each of which played a specific genre.

If I wanted to hear music on demand, you had to go out and buy a record or a cassette or a CD or something that was relatively expensive.

now you have an account with the music streaming service which has a free tier with advertising so it does not even a pay barrier to get in at first where you have access to practically everything ever recorded yes um you know and i mentioned like one of the things that i've done with my son alex is that like in order to like get him up in the morning it just doesn't actually work by the the way but it was an attempt i made and still do sometimes like i would pick a random year in the last hundred years so right now from 1924 to 2024 and i would ask alexa to play music from that year interesting and then that would be the wake up music for the day but and but and there's a selection and look and the point is i'm not saying most people are like hey play me music from 1924.

No, obviously most people don't do that, but it's available is the point.

Like you can, you can do that. Yeah.

Ivan:
[13:00]
But, but here, but, but let me be clear about that.

Sam:
[13:03]
And say the same thing with music or movies and TV and all this kind of stuff.

Like you are not limited to the new stuff that has just come out.

The old stuff is all available.

Ivan:
[13:14]
Oh, okay. But, but let me correct wrecked you on something. Okay.

You went back to the 40s, alright?

Sam:
[13:20]
Mm-hmm.

Ivan:
[13:21]
Look. Yes.

If I read you, there is no way in hell that you in the 80s asked your parents to play any of these songs that I'm going to tell you right now were the top hits of the 1940s. Okay. All right.

Sam:
[13:41]
Well, it probably would have been your grandparents for the 40s.

Your parents would be the 60s.

Ivan:
[13:48]
Yeah. Well, yeah. Or your grandpa. Well, no, but, but yeah, but your parents, well, yeah, but they're, well yeah because i'm an older dad okay but all right so or your grandpa or any well anybody are you wouldn't be asking for i'll snap i'll never smile again who who played that song sam do you know i.

Sam:
[14:09]
Don't know i'll never smile again.

Ivan:
[14:11]
Tommy dorsey do you know who that is i have no idea who that is yes i do you do i.

Sam:
[14:17]
Know who tommy dorsey is and i've listened i listened to tommy dorsey music it's in my mix yeah so just not that particular song.

Ivan:
[14:23]
Okay yeah how many people at that group in the office you ask them from from our age how many you think know that song.

Sam:
[14:32]
It would be low.

Ivan:
[14:34]
Exactly and that's and that's my point that people don't go and ask for my sister and i from jimmy dorsey, Who the fuck knows what that song is? I'm looking at this list.

I don't know any of these songs now, but my son will go the other day.

Sam:
[14:50]
Send me the list. I'll tell you how many I know.

Ivan:
[14:52]
Okay. There's, I mean, here, just, just the list of billboard number one singles of the 1940s. Okay. All right. It's in Wikipedia. Okay.

But here's the thing. Like the other day, for example, like I said, my son, I'm in the car and asked for in the air tonight by Phil Collins out of the blue. Right.

I don't remember ever playing that song for him. That song is 40, about a little over 40 years old right now.

I don't know. All of a sudden, just ask me for that song. And a bunch of those.

And the other thing is that I go to the gym to work out, for example.

Look, I can guarantee you this. In the 1980s, I went to the gym.

Nobody in their right mind for a workout video for like Jane Fonda would be playing hits from the 40s.

Sam:
[15:39]
Right. Okay.

Ivan:
[15:40]
But now I went and my early 20-some-old teenager was not only playing all these hits from the 80s.

She just told me how she came back from New York because she went to see Billy Joel. And I'm like, huh?

Sam:
[15:57]
What?

Ivan:
[15:59]
And that, I think, is – and that's what I'm talking about, the cultural flattening that we've had. It's just – it's one of these things where – Well.

Sam:
[16:07]
And, and I, and, and what I was getting at is I think a lot of it has to do with the easy accessibility of the older stuff.

Like that just, if you, if you wanted.

Ivan:
[16:20]
But it also, I think that it's not just the accessibility. I think it, it, it's also that it's, it's been evolving.

Sam:
[16:26]
It's more acceptable. Cause like when we, in the eighties, there were, there were like music of your life channels that had like 1940s and 1930s music and stuff like that. but like no one, No respectable teenager would admit to listening to them.

Ivan:
[16:43]
No! No!

Sam:
[16:46]
Now, I listened to them. I did listen to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.

Ivan:
[16:50]
But let's be clear. The average, I'm not talking about you.

The average teenager would never listen to any of these songs ever, voluntarily.

Sam:
[17:04]
Okay, like, so I have your, this is, I'm in the 1940 list.

And I see I'll never smile again was the first one on the list from July 1940.

This is the list of the number ones. So I'll go like, don't know, don't know, don't know. Don't know, don't know, don't know.

Don't know, don't know, don't know, don't know.

Don't know, don't know, don't know, don't know, don't know.

And then the first one that I do know from November 29th, 1941, Chattanooga Choo Choo by Glenn Miller.

Ivan:
[17:34]
Okay. Yeah. That one I even know. Okay. Yeah. But let me put it to you that here, here's the thing about it.

Sam:
[17:39]
Wait, wait, wait.

Ivan:
[17:40]
Right yes yes i think about chattanooga choo-choo right well i let me see that is 1941 so if i'm going i could go back right now say if i'm in 1985 and i go back i go right now back 44 years okay all right for a song from back then okay what the number one was i could probably pay let me see what number one song okay so while you do that nobody what i'm saying is nobody at a party it's like in high school that i went in 1985 was asking hey can you play chattanooga choo-choo.

Sam:
[18:24]
Right. Well, one of the, one of the things that like I've seen on Tik TOK, that's like a genre that people have done is they'll get people from multiple generations and then they'll have like a sound thing that plays snippets from songs from some historical year.

Sam:
[18:45]
And the people will, you know, sort of go thumbs up or thumbs down or whatever.

Do they remember, do they recognize the song.

And you still do, by the way, like if you have the millennials or Gen Zs, there are a bunch of songs from when we were younger that they do not know, but lots of them do know. That's the thing. Lots of them have sort of survived.

The other thing that is like, I think the, well, I was going to say the amount that things change has slowed down, but I don't think that's really true.

Cause I'll also find like, if you do one of those quizzes for me for things that are actually popular, like in the last decade, I do very poorly.

Like there are a few songs I recognize, but there are a lot of things that have been popular recently that I am just completely out of the loop on.

Cause you know, it's not, I think, but okay. I want to go through this list.

Also a string of pearls, Glenn Miller. I know that then don't, don't know.

Don't know. Don't know. Don't know. Don't know. I've got a girl in kalamazoo also glenn miller apparently i just like glenn miller but then white christmas by bing crosby okay which was by the way number one in october what you expect that to be number one in december like what they're getting it.

Ivan:
[20:02]
Was early they're getting there you know it's like christmas you know we talk about christmas early whatever whatnot but you know yeah so.

Sam:
[20:10]
Then a whole bunch i don't know let's see what's the next one i actually know, I'll Be Seeing You by Bing Crosby. Swinging on a Star by Bing Crosby. I know that one.

Don't Fence Me In by Bing Crosby and the Andrews Sisters.

Ivan:
[20:29]
I know that song. Okay, I've heard that.

Sam:
[20:31]
Rum and Coca-Cola by the Andrews Sisters.

Ivan:
[20:34]
Wow. Getting very, you know.

Sam:
[20:39]
Sentimental Journey by Les Brown and Doris Day. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. my point is nobody's.

Ivan:
[20:46]
Boogieing down to.

Sam:
[20:47]
Well well but not even now but also like i think even if you look at the number ones from like the 80s or 90s dude like 40 years.

Ivan:
[20:59]
Ago like a virgin with her madonna.

Sam:
[21:01]
Give me a fucking no no no i know but but what i'm what i'm saying is that if you look at all the number ones from a particular year there are probably 20 number ones in the year of those those 20, there are probably five that are really resonant and have stood the test of time. And then the- Wait, wait, wait.

Ivan:
[21:19]
I got the list. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, you say that? Wait, wait, wait. No, let me stop you.

Sam:
[21:25]
I don't- Wait, wait, wait. By that, I mean, you and I who went through it will probably remember all 25.

But people who, like you're saying, the teenagers, there's probably a handful that they would really know.

Ivan:
[21:40]
Listen, listen. The list that I've got here is a list that has from 19 days, there weren't that many that were number one. There were like 20-something.

Okay? Yeah. I'm going to give you, okay, so let me put it to you this way.

The ones that probably anybody knows. Footloose. Okay? Kenny Loggins.

You know, for example, that was from that year.

Let me see another one here. When Doves Cry by Prince.

Let's see. Let's go, well, Let's Go Crazy by Prince. That was still played a lot. But out of touch by, well, and like a virgin by Madonna, out of touch by Dara Hall and John Oates, which my son loves, by the way, I realize.

So I will say that out of these, you probably got four or five that people like in general.

Sam:
[22:25]
That's exactly what I just said. There were probably 20 in the year and there are probably four or five that have really stood the test of time and people will remember.

And people who weren't in that generation would still be aware of.

Ivan:
[22:35]
Yeah.

Sam:
[22:37]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[22:37]
Yeah. I mean, so yeah, so four or five that you've got from here that really, really, I think that, but I will say, well, of course it's been more recent.

Sam:
[22:48]
And of course it depends on the person, right? Like if you, if you pick somebody who's like really into music and has like.

Ivan:
[22:55]
Oh yeah, they'll know.

Sam:
[22:56]
They'll, they'll know more.

Ivan:
[22:58]
Well, you're apparently an expert in 1940s music. I didn't realize.

Sam:
[23:01]
Oh, an expert. I, I, I like didn't know more than I did.

Ivan:
[23:05]
But like, well, most people, you know, more.

Sam:
[23:09]
I like forties music.

Ivan:
[23:11]
Yes. You know, I can see that.

Sam:
[23:13]
So like I'm, I'm a little bit less like when, when I have like the, the Alexa play the random music from different years, I, I, you know, I'm, I find a much weaker on 1920s and thirties music than I am on forties music.

Ivan:
[23:29]
You know?

Sam:
[23:31]
And, and, and there's a little bit less of, of there's a little bit less available.

as well but you know i'm my my familiarity sort of starts coming up in the 40s and then increases over time but i still have huge gaps of course like but like i said my biggest gaps at this point are probably music from the last 20 years as opposed to you know music from before i was born i know you know but whatever you know i think that's typical that's typical but the point of all this discussion was the flattening of the culture where like you know and again we've been been talking about music but i think it applies to all this other stuff too like uh apparently video games for.

Ivan:
[24:14]
Example i mean that's the one thing where shit i find so many young people still playing some video games or back then i'm like saying you know i i mean look we had video games in the 80s we got video games now and the reality is i mean 40s 80s are no fucking video games like 1940s i mean so there's nothing to bring forward i mean it's just nothing from that that experience.

And I mean, they've gotten more sophisticated and stuff and whatever, but for whatever reason, a lot of young people really like the play, These old 80s and 90s video games.

Sam:
[24:45]
Well, but also like TV, apparently like there was a big renaissance of people watching Friends.

Ivan:
[24:53]
Right.

Sam:
[24:53]
That weren't born when it was on the first time.

Ivan:
[24:55]
That's right. Yeah.

Sam:
[24:56]
You know, and it was a really popular thing to do. And again, it's because this stuff is available.

Ivan:
[25:02]
Well, yeah, but I don't see anybody. I don't remember me rushing to go watch Mr. Ed.

Sam:
[25:08]
No, but the reruns were on. I remember flipping past Mr. Ed reruns.

Ivan:
[25:12]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but we're not, you know, we're not, we're not reminiscing to go back to Mr. Ed reruns.

Sam:
[25:18]
No, but there were a lot of things like there, maybe, maybe not that far, but I remember when I was a kid, there were leave it to beaver reruns.

There were, you know, bewitched and.

Ivan:
[25:28]
No, there certainly were. There certainly were. I think that probably with TV, because especially because TV was more recent, I mean, and those shows were more recent. I think that we definitely watched a lot.

Sam:
[25:39]
But even there, when we, when we were young, we were still dependent on, you know, our TV channel decided to put on reruns of that thing. Right.

Ivan:
[25:49]
And it wasn't like we had choices. Yes.

Sam:
[25:51]
It's like we were bored and we were flipping channels and, oh, here's this old TV show from the fifties that's on.

And of course there were only certain shows that got repeated like that.

It's not like if you, if you went to see like, you know, all the top shows from the fifties or whatever, some of them went into reruns and were played.

and some of them were not you know whereas right now like there's still things that are hard to find but like for the most part like if you're interested in show x from decade y there's a good chance you can find it if it was a semi-popular show if right like if it was if it was like one of these things that did not last very long in the first place you might have trouble but like But my.

Ivan:
[26:37]
Main point is that I see a lot more people that are younger now interested in things that were from 80s and 90s than we had.

Because of all these technological reasons, because of more availability and all these things, that the conversation isn't the same as one with somebody from the 80s and 90s having about stuff from the 50s and 40s.

Sam:
[27:01]
I think you're right. There's a technological thing that enables it, but there's also a cultural, like, you know, in certain previous decades, thinking about like, hey, I want to listen to the things that my parents listened to when they were kids would be met with, oh, no, no, I don't.

I don't want to disassociate myself with that.

Like, even if I could listen to my parents' music, I don't want to.

Whereas now it's actually like, you know, there's certainly some of that.

There's always some of that. This is like your parents' music is old people music, but you know, you know.

Ivan:
[27:41]
I don't see, I don't see anywhere as much of that anymore. Yeah.

Sam:
[27:44]
And like I said, I keep coming back to music, but it's, it's TVs, movies, video games, like you mentioned everything.

It's, it's just because, you know, if, if, you know, if, if you're looking for a TV show and you're like, Hey, I want to look at, you know, an old medical drama or something.

Ivan:
[28:03]
Yeah. I was going to say old Star Trek episodes, but okay. Medical drama.

Sam:
[28:07]
Yeah. Old Star Trek. But you want, you want medical drama. I mean, hell like what? what, Grey's Anatomy is on the air for like 30 years or go back and find some ER or something?

Ivan:
[28:17]
Grey's Anatomy was really on for that long?

Sam:
[28:20]
Well, it's still on, is the thing.

Ivan:
[28:22]
Is it?

Sam:
[28:22]
Yeah, like they're still making new episodes of that. Let me check right now.

Ivan:
[28:27]
Okay. Well, you know, the one that I was watching some episodes of recently that's very old.

Sam:
[28:34]
Law and Order.

Ivan:
[28:35]
No, Quincy.

Sam:
[28:36]
Oh, Quincy. Yes, I used to watch. I remember Quincy.

Ivan:
[28:39]
Yeah, Quincy. Quincy.

Sam:
[28:42]
Let's see. There have been 20 seasons of Grey's Anatomy so far, 424 episodes, and it started in 2005.

And...

And season 20, yeah, well, it started in 2005.

So season 20, and it's been renewed for a 21st season.

Ivan:
[29:10]
Jesus, wow.

Sam:
[29:11]
So it started in 2005, still going.

Ivan:
[29:15]
Wow. I have no idea what Grey's Anatomy is about. What is it about?

Is it some doctors or something?

Sam:
[29:23]
Yeah, I mean, it's a typical Doctor Who. I watched, I watched a few seasons of it back near when it started, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, you know, doctors and nurses in a hospital and the, you know, they have, they have interpersonal things going on while they are also like solving medical issues of people.

And, you know, it's, this is a whole genre of shelves. Like ER was the same thing, you know, and they're all.

Ivan:
[29:49]
I never, I never watched ER either.

Sam:
[29:51]
I watched ER when it was on as well.

Ivan:
[29:54]
Well i didn't watch saying elsewhere i.

Sam:
[29:57]
Watched saying elsewhere the the point is though like if someone right now wanted to go watch these old shows they could they can you know and and so.

Ivan:
[30:05]
Like something can but i will tell you one damn movie i mean i don't understand why it's not available anywhere okay and i i know that you will not well maybe you can put it on your list if it's available at some point yeah and i know you won't really want to watch it or would you enjoy it.

Sam:
[30:22]
Movie or TV show?

Ivan:
[30:23]
It's a movie. It's Cannonball Run.

Sam:
[30:26]
Okay, and it's not available anywhere?

Ivan:
[30:28]
I have not been able to find it streaming anywhere. I found it, like, some people post pieces of it on YouTube or whatever, but it's not on Apple TV movies.

Cannonball Run 2 is, which is not the same, but you can't find the damn Cannonball Run on any of the streaming services.

Sam:
[30:47]
I just checked Gatcham, Just watch, which is a nice little thing for finding those things.

And nope, sorry, the cannonball run is not available at the moment.

You know, the other, the other thing for, for TV shows, for TV shows, another similar one, moonlighting.

If you remember moonlighting.

Ivan:
[31:05]
Oh yeah, that's right. Moonlighting also. I know it's not available almost anywhere.

Sam:
[31:09]
And, and part, part of these is a lot of the issues on these sometimes end up being like song rights.

If they used music, I think that was a difficulty for moonlighting.

like would be you know because they they didn't they didn't get the licensing for anything other than an initial broadcast run.

Ivan:
[31:26]
So so here's the thing that i found it there's got to be something like that because the other day i was just flipping through my live tv okay and the movie was on cannonball run yeah yeah and i'm like fuck why is this movie on this shit channel okay i i can't can't even remember what the hell the damn channel was it was some shit channel and i'm like fuck this movie is on the stupid shit channel and i can't get it like on pay twenty dollars at fucking apple tv or something to get the stupid thing i'm like you know yeah so yeah i that so anyway all right we've burnt up way too much time on this let's go to your movie how.

Sam:
[32:14]
Did you know i wanted to do a movie.

Ivan:
[32:16]
That's i have no i i'm psychic psychic your psychic i could.

Sam:
[32:22]
Talk about the computer problems i had this week instead no.

Ivan:
[32:26]
No no no you could i mean i could talk at movies okay no i.

Sam:
[32:30]
I will do the movie we're still catching up on movies i will you know if i do these religiously every week i will eventually catch up if i don't then i will never catch up because Because, you know, we probably hit like two movies a month, two or three a month.

So like maybe not quite. But anyway.

Okay. My movie this time, which I watched in September.

We're up to September of last year. September 6th was Knock Down the House from 2019. Have you heard of it?

Ivan:
[33:01]
No. No.

Sam:
[33:05]
Well, this relates to something we talked about last week, actually.

We mentioned in passing AOC.

This is a documentary that follows AOC and three other people who were running for office in the 2018 elections.

Ivan:
[33:22]
Okay.

Sam:
[33:22]
And so it follows Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Amy Valleja, Cori Bush, and Paula Jeans Swearingen.

Ivan:
[33:34]
Swearingen. She really swearing at them.

Sam:
[33:37]
Yeah, something like that. Anyway, basically these are four women who all...

decided that year to run quote unquote grassroots campaigns against long time incumbents. Okay.

And of these, of these four, AOC is the only one who won that year.

A couple of the others have had later success. Like Cori Bush ended up in Congress two years later and, and Valleja, yeah, but anyway, but AOC was the only one that won that year.

And it basically follows them throughout their, the campaign process.

And, you know, and you see the reactions as they're going through, as they're, you know, going through the, the, the, the primary process and in AOC's case through the general election.

And you, you, you see everything's in that's involved in them.

So I'm sort of doing that kind of grassroots campaign and their reactions as they win, as they lose, et cetera.

Sam:
[34:43]
And and like i said aoc is the only one that won and you see like because they had the camera crew there when she found out that she won of course this is a movie sure and you know like she did not expect to win you know so she was like shocked that she won and excited and all of this kind of stuff i i'm giving this a thumbs up to me this was a very interesting look it's it's a documentary of course not all people like documentaries but it was a very interesting look at the process it was a interesting look at like what these people were thinking like some of them were in races where you're like looking at it like okay you know you're losing right you are not going to win this but of course they're they have to like they have to do it anyway you know and they have to like like, you know, put on their, put their best foot forward and all of this kind of stuff.

And like I said, even AOC didn't think she was going to win.

And then she pulled out a surprise win at the end. Right. And all of the, the back and forth and, you know, debates they were in and the, the, the various things they had to do to run.

Now I'm giving this a thumbs up as of course, you know, you and I are into this stuff.

Ivan:
[36:00]
Right.

Sam:
[36:00]
We pay lots of attention to the politics and, you know, and these were all sort of progressive-style candidates, you know? So, but...

Sam:
[36:10]
It's still, regardless of that, it was a good behind the scenes look at congressional candidates.

I think that like, you know, it wouldn't have looked that much different if they were at different points in the political spectrum.

Obviously the kinds of constituencies they'd be trying to respond to would be different, but this was, I, I found it fascinating.

Like, and it is just the, the behind the scenes, look at what was going on and how they got there.

And specifically when we were talking about AOC before last week, we, we were mentioning like, Hey, it was clear almost from the beginning that this person has a lot of potential.

maybe she has to get a little bit of experience under her belt and learn a little bit more about how things work in order to be effective but she's got lots of a potential and it was yeah that's shown through throughout this you know the the other people different levels but aoc was the the star of this now of course yeah they edited after they knew who won and who lost so like right of course you know that affects things but you know it was clear throughout the thing that like Like, okay, this woman, you know, is smart.

She knows what she's doing. She knows what she believes.

Sam:
[37:31]
And, you know, she's going through all of this stuff to get elected.

And, you know, and even watching the people who lost was instructive.

Like, what is involved in that? How did they do that?

Sam:
[37:46]
Thumbs up. I don't know if I have anything else to say. But like, if you like these sort of political behind the scenes documentaries, and you know, there are others of this genre, there's some that are like actual documentaries, and there are others that are sort of acted out versions of, you know, where it's based on reality, but it's dramatized.

If you like that kind of thing, either the documentary flavor or the dramatized flavor, you'll probably like this.

If that kind of stuff bores you to death, you're not going to like it.

Ivan:
[38:19]
I mean, the last one that I ever recall trying to watch these, but I didn't read the book, was Primary Colors.

Okay. Yeah. Which was about, well, it wasn't revealed.

Sam:
[38:31]
I've never actually seen that one. It's on my list, both the book and the movie, but I have never actually seen it.

Ivan:
[38:36]
Did you read the book?

Sam:
[38:37]
No, I have not read the book. I've not seen the movie.

Ivan:
[38:40]
No, I read the book. I've watched the movie, but I caught it.

It was like, I mean, this was this movie came out back when streaming wasn't really whatever it was just it was on linear TV and I didn't watch the whole movie.

I think I watched a whole bunch of it about the whole thing because the movie kind of sucked and I was just and it wasn't it really deviated a lot from the book.

Sam:
[39:05]
And probably from reality as well.

Ivan:
[39:07]
And from everything. And it was just kind of, it was, it was just kind of crappy.

And so I was just, you know, it just wasn't a good movie.

I think I remember had John Travolta. It had, didn't have Kathy Bates.

I think it had, I mean, I mean, I'm doing this all memory.

Sam:
[39:26]
I'm looking at the list. John Travolta, Emma Thompson, Billy Bob Thornton, Adrian Lester, Maura Tierney, Paul Gleif, how do you say his name?

Larry Hagman, and Kathy Bates. You're right about that.

Ivan:
[39:39]
Kathy Bates. Okay, so I was right on the people I remember. Yeah.

It just was a good movie. That's my, I mean, that's what I remember.

Sam:
[39:46]
Now, of course I'm reading the Wikipedia page. It says it was critically acclaimed, but a box office bomb.

Ivan:
[39:55]
I mean, critically acclaimed?

Sam:
[39:57]
It was nominated for a couple Academy Awards. Best Supporting Actress and Best Adapted Screenplay.

Ivan:
[40:05]
What is their Rotten Tomatoes rating that it's got? Or like the whatnot? What's the...

Sam:
[40:10]
81%.

Ivan:
[40:11]
Wow, so a lot of people like it. I kind of thought it was done.

But it's just the book was a lot better. It's one of these... And that happens a lot.

And so it was just kind of like, I read the book, and I start watching it, I'm like, eh, sucks. The book was better.

Sam:
[40:30]
I'm like, you know.

Ivan:
[40:30]
Whatever.

Sam:
[40:32]
Okay so yeah yeah this is a whole genre like both both there's a genre of the documentaries there's a genre of the dramatized versions and primary colors is one where you know the dramatized version is like it changes all the names and stuff it doesn't even yeah because it's far enough from reality they're also dramatized ones where they keep their original names but it's clearly dramatized as well there's you know anyway Anyway, if you like that kind of movie, you'll probably like Knock Down the House.

It won some awards, too. It won Documentary Audience Award and Festival Favorite at Sundance, for instance.

It won Critics' Choice Documentary, Most Compelling Living Subject of a Documentary.

So it won some stuff. Anyway, thumbs up.

Ivan:
[41:20]
Stuff. It won stuff.

Sam:
[41:22]
Shall we take a break and then we pick a topic?

Ivan:
[41:26]
Break it up!

Sam:
[41:27]
Topic, topic, topic. topic we will be back with actual newsy stuff yvonne will have the first pick and we'll go a segment with whatever yvonne wants and then we'll take a break and then we'll do a segment with whatever i want it'll be fun it'll be exciting it'll be life and love and something anyway, here here's the break, Okay, we're back. So, Yvonne, where do we start with the actual newsy stuff?

Ivan:
[43:55]
Let's talk about Trump's money. Okay.

Sam:
[44:00]
Oh, you know, I guess that that was what you would pick. Because you've picked it like the last three weeks in a row. So let's go.

And I've picked similar stuff recently, too.

Ivan:
[44:14]
Okay. Okay. Well, first one thing. Donald Trump Media and Technology Group Corp.

in nine days is now down 40 okay okay is.

Sam:
[44:27]
It still above like the pre-ipo or pre-merger price of d-wack or whatever it was.

Ivan:
[44:34]
No it's already fallen below that okay that price was about 42 90 there were reached on may march 20th because it started trading on on the 27th was the official day of that started trading it it had been at around mid-march before that 42 90 40 19 right now it's basically fallen to almost exactly the price that it was back in early march and.

Sam:
[45:10]
You On the Curmudgeon's Corner Slack, which our listeners who aren't there are missing out on, you should join us.

But you had predicted that when I asked you, how long will it take before it drops down to the pre-merger levels, you said by the end of the week. So I think you nailed it.

Ivan:
[45:26]
Yep, pretty much. And here's another thing I nailed. Hey, Sam.

Yes. Is Donald Trump bonded?

Sam:
[45:38]
Well, how's that going? there's been a little back and forth there it looked like he was but it.

Ivan:
[45:46]
Looked like he was but like everything donald does there's always a scam somewhere.

Sam:
[45:53]
So just to hit the timeline donald trump what was tuesday or something all the headlines were he's posted his bond, You know, he has posted his bond. It was this night company from California.

Ivan:
[46:10]
Sounded like an insurance. Sounded legit.

Sam:
[46:13]
That he used. And then a day or two later, it came out.

Well, it's being kicked back because of a paperwork problem.

There were some, there's some information about the, there was some financial information that was supposed to be attached. It is a bit financial statement.

Well, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm going through the steps.

Ivan:
[46:35]
Okay, okay.

Sam:
[46:36]
At first, it sounded like Donald hadn't submitted some financial information, but no, no, it turned out the financial information that was missing was about the bond company.

And then, okay, the bond company did, there was a revised submission that included some of the financials on the bond company.

But then there were some questions about, wait a second, this bond company isn't licensed to work in New York.

And then the attorney general's office basically put out a request saying, look, because they're not licensed in New York, we're going to need a lot of proof that they actually have the money and are willing to do this.

and they were there i believe there was another sort of 10 day time period given and i think the judge has set a hearing to review this at this point as well where now the bond company has to put up a lot of basically has to prove that they've really got this before this is official because the the da is like hey this looks fishy this looks like you know they they haven't done First, they didn't do the paperwork right.

And then when you look at some of the at least surface level financials of this, it's unclear that this company actually has the resources to be able to put.

Sam:
[48:00]
Up this money if necessary.

Sam:
[48:02]
Because the way it works, right, the bond company is guaranteeing the money.

And so what happens is if the court actually calls that, the bond company has to put up the money and then the bond company has to go after Trump.

Ivan:
[48:19]
Correct. Yep.

Sam:
[48:20]
You know, so at this point, this moves the requirement of being able to prove that you have the money off of Trump onto the bond company.

Now, presumably the bond company would want Trump to prove it, but it turns out like the president of the bond company here is a Trumpy.

So he may be doing this as a favor to Trump without actually having made sure that Trump can actually pay it. That's unclear.

But it's also unclear whether the company itself has the resources.

And apparently there's some things like, well, this company doesn't, but their parent company does and some other.

Ivan:
[48:53]
OK, but let me clarify that. Some people said that about the parent company.

Look, the parent company have money, have a money doesn't mean dick. Okay.

Because I've seen these transactions already. Look, insurance companies, the way they are set.

Sam:
[49:07]
The reason you have them separated is to isolate them from each other anyway.

Ivan:
[49:11]
Exactly. It's exactly the point. It's just that if that company owes money and they go after the company, well, you know, they can't go after the parent company.

That's why they have this parent company, child company set up.

So they don't – these guys have not capitalized – everything that they've produced shows that they have not capitalized this company sufficiently.

for this. Okay.

Sam:
[49:37]
And so, and that's also an important part of that. Like New York has some requirements.

Ivan:
[49:42]
Correct.

Sam:
[49:43]
I believe it's the amount of the bond can't be more than 10% or something of the liquidity of the bond company, some, something like that.

Ivan:
[49:52]
Right.

Sam:
[49:52]
Whereas in this, in this case, it's like 120%. Right. Not even close to the 10%.

Ivan:
[49:57]
Right. I mean, they really That company needs to show that it's got assets of a couple of billion dollars in order for them to be able to issue the bond.

Now, they're arguing a whole bunch of things about how they're going about the licensing and that this doesn't qualify and that doesn't qualify.

But I look, a lot of the stuff that they're throwing out is the usual bullshit, hocus pocus shit that fucking Donald Trump tries to use in every fucking business deal that he does.

And so at this point right now, he isn't bond.

Right. And somehow what he wound up doing is providing a a flimsy promise of a bond that isn't really a bond.

he told these guys by the way i think i i heard well first he was gonna give us i thought as collateral he was gonna turn over bonds but then he said he showed us that he's got the cash but we let him keep the cash that's bullshit too it's a fucking bullshit it's not the way this works and so, It just seems like right now, another one of these shenanigans at this point, which he's managed to buy himself some time right now.

Sam:
[51:17]
Well, and to buy himself time again, it depends on how this works out, right?

Like if in the end, the insurance company like moves money around, does whatever they do and the judge is satisfied, then this doesn't change the future timetables.

Like Donald Trump has been given a deadline for when he can appeal.

It would stay the same. If, on the other hand, this falls apart and the judge says this is nonsense and Donald Trump doesn't have a replacement for it, then, yes, it has delayed how long it takes before they can start sending the marshals in by a couple of weeks.

Ivan:
[51:50]
Right. Right. So, Sam, how are you feeling now about what I predicted last week and everybody was saying, oh, yeah, no, no, he's got the money. Everything is done.

Blah, blah, blah. How confident are you back? How confident are you now about that?

Because I told everybody, you guys are dumb asses. You're believing that Donald is actually doing this, that he's got the money. All of you are stupid.

Sam:
[52:14]
Honestly, I feel like they will still work something out and this will stick.

back like you know because i i think like the the because the owner of the bond company wants to do this like it feels like one of those deals where where like you were like we were talking about before it's not that donald trump has the money it's that somebody wants to bail him out.

Ivan:
[52:38]
Yeah yeah yeah here here's the thing yeah here's the thing though yes here's a problem that you've got here this guy wants to bail him out but the way that he showed up to bail him out wasn't sufficient yes yeah well no it's not just that this guy wanted to bail him out but he wanted to do it in a way that he wasn't risking the 175 million dollars yes because take a wild guess he doesn't think he can get the fucking 175 million from donald either no.

Sam:
[53:08]
So the question is is he willing to just give up the 175 for this.

Ivan:
[53:12]
Well, the thing is, he, he, but listen, he's not even trying to do it.

What's the problem that you've got here? Listen, you put the ones it's yeah.

So he would have to fucking put over to one 75 and then basically gift with.

Sam:
[53:28]
No expectation of ever getting it from Donald Trump. Yes, correct.

Ivan:
[53:32]
And it does. Listen, by this, it doesn't seem like if you were serious about, oh yeah, I'm really standing up the money.

then this thing would have been legit but the first thing he did is he showed up on for a company that didn't even have the money they didn't even have that as equity right so that shows you for and and here i mean man and it was purposely done to buy time listen this guy knows that this was bullshit that.

Sam:
[54:10]
Was that was going to be my next point of conversation is like do you think that it is obviously you do because you just said this do you think it's purposeful.

Ivan:
[54:18]
Yes as.

Sam:
[54:18]
Opposed to this is a bond company that just doesn't know what there doesn't know what the new york rules are.

Ivan:
[54:23]
Oh no no no no no no no doubt this was personal this was on purpose this was on purpose it's.

Sam:
[54:33]
Not just hey this bond company usually works in california doesn't And I have no any idea what the New York rules are.

Ivan:
[54:38]
Now. Now, this was on purpose. He was trying to see one or two things.

A, let's see if they're dumb enough to take it without looking through it.

Well, that point didn't work with B. It's like, oh, well, you know.

They're working on it, you know, kind of a thing.

But. I told you, man. I don't think that this guy could come up with this fucking money.

I have still serious that he's going to be able to come up with the fucking money because all he always does is shuck and jive.

And he's running out of shucking and jiving maneuvering room.

Sam:
[55:23]
Yeah. I know. We'll see.

Ivan:
[55:25]
Listen, you got to understand.

Sam:
[55:28]
We were all gloating by the way. Well, I was going, I was like, I put out the podcast just in time to prove Yvonne wrong on this one.

And then a few days later, it all blew up.

Ivan:
[55:39]
But, but think about, yes, Let me put it to you.

This is the one thing about this. People are not understanding how this is crimping his finances. Okay? Right.

Understand that if he is, they're not accepting real estate. Okay?

And not all the bonding companies are demanding that he provide this money as collateral.

Okay? Now, the way that they're doing it is, listen, Donald, you have an account with $175 million in cash, and they will probably accept U.S.

Treasury bonds as well, and you're going to put it in that account, and that account, you can't touch the money.

okay you you're you're not turning it over you're not paying it but those funds are frozen.

Ivan:
[56:39]
Okay that's the way that this is working the problem is that if you look at donald's financials okay you only have between two to four hundred million to five hundred million in cash when you're running this many businesses and that that he has hotels things and whatever you take out those 200 by some estimates he only had that leaves him only 150 operating and then it's split up between a whole bunch of companies it means that the operating cash liquidity that all of those have is significantly reduced and so what that could cause him is that some of his businesses all of a sudden can't pay ordinary bills, okay And this is the situation that he's trying to maneuver around with this.

Remember, he already pledged $100 million.

Sam:
[57:38]
On the E.G. and Carol side.

Ivan:
[57:41]
Right. So this puts him up to $275 million pledged of liquid money.

So if I'm telling that he had between $400 and $350 million, that leaves him a very, very thin cushion of cash for that many businesses.

Sam:
[58:02]
Mm-hmm.

Ivan:
[58:04]
So this is why he is desperately trying to maneuver this.

And he bought some time right now again. Somehow. As he always, this son of a bitch always finds some fucking way to buy more time.

Sam:
[58:16]
Yeah, I think they gave him 10 days to prove what they need to prove.

And we've now like, it's now down to eight or something.

Ivan:
[58:22]
We've exhausted four. And listen, if it was that simple as, oh yeah, well, you know, this business guy, I'm just going to move two billion into this.

He would have done it by now. Now, three days later, nothing. Once again.

I told you guys, this guy, listen, I listen, I have met people at.

Similar scale that did this kind of shit.

And, you know, I've seen, oh, they will, they will maneuver one way.

They will maneuver another way, whatever.

But eventually, one of these fucking things, one of these cash crunchers finally gets them, okay?

I mean, they will maneuver around at all, but there is, when sometimes a very big one comes, that's it. And it happens quick, okay?

So I'm telling you, Trump is close to being at that level. And I would be surprised if the next move is filing for bankruptcy.

Sam:
[59:35]
So we think we're back there, even though he said he would rather have the marshals take property than go to bankruptcy.

Ivan:
[59:43]
Yes. Fuck yeah. He's not, yeah, he would rather file for bankruptcy.

I mean, because that's where we're at right now.

Because unless this guy goes and capitalizes that insurance company to the tune.

I saw this guy's net worth was estimated at $7 billion. And he's got a whole bunch of business.

Sam:
[1:00:02]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:00:02]
Okay. But think about this. If he has to capitalize this insurance company to that tune, he needs to capitalize this company to $2 billion.

Right. Where the fuck is he going to put liquid? And this has to be liquid. Mm-hmm. $2 billion.

So where the fuck is he? if he's only got seven and he's got other businesses that need that capital, how the fuck is he going to deposit $2 billion into it?

I don't see how he can do it. So, telling you so.

Sam:
[1:00:33]
We're back to all the options we were talking about two weeks ago yes.

Ivan:
[1:00:37]
We are, fun, i still got my popcorn ready okay all right because you know something's gonna happen.

Sam:
[1:00:48]
So since we're talking trump let's let's nail out the nail out nail out let's let's do a few other it's.

Ivan:
[1:00:56]
How it's really mostly hammer.

Sam:
[1:00:58]
Out hammer out hammer out okay not nail yeah nail out screw out i mean.

Ivan:
[1:01:02]
Well you know i.

Sam:
[1:01:03]
Drill out yeah.

Ivan:
[1:01:04]
Drill out i mean you know to you know but.

Sam:
[1:01:07]
Let's deal with some of the other trump related stuff and then i will do something completely different in my segment spaceships yeah no yeah okay so we had the the trump bond drama we just talked about all that kind of stuff we also had legal developments in three of the cases Trump has been trying to get all of these legal cases dismissed.

The New York case, which is scheduled to start now in nine days, just doing the math, started on April 15th, he had a motion to dismiss based on the whole presidential immunity thing that's still at SCOTUS, and the judge is like, no.

Ivan:
[1:01:52]
It doesn't matter. matter.

Sam:
[1:01:54]
Well, he actually just rejected it because it was untimely.

Basically, like if you were going to argue this, you should have argued it a long time ago.

And in fact, back a long time ago, you specifically said you weren't going to use this defense, so screw you. So that was rejected.

Also in the New York case, Donald Trump, just in the last few hours, submitted a request for the judge to recuse himself because of conflict of interest because his daughter is a democratic consultant oh my god which which had been brought up and rejected months ago as well but donald trump says there's new facts or something there's no way the judge is going to do this and in fact this is this is a way to get around the gag order that was just put on that he, cause he kept talking about this judge's daughter and social media and posting pictures and going after and blah, blah, blah.

Now there's a gag order that says he can't do that. So instead he, he files a 37 page legal document saying that a judge should recuse because of the same stuff. And so now.

And the judge is going to say no, you know, and so because he's starting to get, you know, we're starting to get close here.

Like we're like, is it nine days?

Ivan:
[1:03:12]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sam:
[1:03:14]
Nine days. The trial starts. The jury is selected.

Ivan:
[1:03:19]
You know, and he and he and he has to sit there and.

Sam:
[1:03:22]
He has to sit there. and you know we may talk over and over again about the new york trial being sort of the least of these but you know it still has potential jail time associated with it you know and, yeah like it's happening like i mean he he pulled this and also the judge is pissed by the way on that other delay about those documents that came out of sdny and they They delayed it 30 days because of that, but it turned out out of these tens of thousands of pages of documents or whatever, there were only a couple hundred that were even remotely relevant.

And the judge himself is like, you don't need a lot of time to go over these.

I went over them myself. It took me like an hour, you know?

So judge is not thrilled with what they've been doing so far, but not in the kind of way that would warrant a recusal, you know?

You know, Trump is also arguing that there's just too much pretrial publicity so that this won't work.

And, well, you know, anyway, all of these motions to dismiss motions to delay recently have been rejected by the judge.

I expect that's going to continue. Who knows? We may be surprised.

Sam:
[1:04:39]
Meanwhile, the same thing in the Georgia case, there were motions to dismiss that were rejected.

And finally, in Florida, there was also a motion to dismiss based on whether you could dismiss right away because of the Presidential Records Act and how it interacted with things.

The judge is apparently giving a lot more credence to this argument than any of the reputable legal experts talk about, but she nevertheless said we're not going to dismiss the case right now.

But she did not close the door on using it as a defense on trial.

And she also rejected the special counsel's request to immediately clarify what her intentions are on jury instructions.

Sam:
[1:05:25]
Because she had this bizarre thing where she asked both the prosecution and defense to write up proposed jury instructions on two different scenarios on how to interpret the Presidential Records Act.

both of which were completely wrong on the law and the special counsel basically said that in their response and asked her to like just if you're if you're going to make this an issue make a ruling on it now so that we can go ahead and appeal and get this done and she basically responded no no i'm not i'm not going to make a ruling on this now and so the game that's been going on is we've been talking for a while that the special counsel may want to appeal one of her rulings and get her removed from this case.

But what she has been doing is she has very carefully been avoiding making final decisions that the special counsel could use as a touch point to appeal.

Sam:
[1:06:28]
She has been, you know, she's been delaying things. She's been being slow on things.

She's been making rulings that talk about right now, but leave things open for the future instead of making a final decision.

And so she hasn't given the special counsel that clear, okay, I'm going to take this to the 11th circuit right now kind of issue yet.

There are a lot of people of the legal talking head saying maybe they need to do something now anyway and go ahead and take something to the 11th Circuit.

But she hasn't given them the opportunity that is absolutely clear cut to do that. So the question is, do they keep waiting?

Sam:
[1:07:23]
Because they don't want to, like, once you see the jury, it's too late.

Jeopardy is attached. And I know I said they didn't charge on all the documents, so maybe they could recharge on other documents. But that's fraud as well, because I gather there are rules about it.

If it's substantially similar, jeopardy still counts, even if you're different on some of the particulars.

So there's, you know, there's a big strategic question on when or if you actually try to get this judge removed.

moved and the special counsel hasn't pulled the trigger yet although their last filing indicated essentially that they that they feel really close to them yeah yeah.

Ivan:
[1:08:06]
Yeah so yeah they're.

Sam:
[1:08:10]
Getting other trump stuff.

Ivan:
[1:08:13]
Any other trump stuff, I mean, the only other Trump stuff that I can remember is that he's.

Sam:
[1:08:22]
Been saying bloodbath a lot. Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:08:25]
Bloodbath. I mean, he's just continuous to be a fucking unhinged asshole.

Sam:
[1:08:30]
Yep.

Ivan:
[1:08:33]
It's, you know. Oh, he, he lied about talking to. So he went.

Sam:
[1:08:38]
Oh yeah.

Ivan:
[1:08:39]
Yeah, he went to did an event and talked about some family that had some crime perpetrated against them by an immigrant and claimed that he had spoken to the family and the family came on TV and said, what the fuck is he talking about?

He's never talked to us. He's lying through his day.

And we're pissed off that he's using that as something against immigrants.

Why the fuck is he like ripping against all these other fucking people that live here and all the crimes they commit basically is what they said. So isn't that lovely?

Sam:
[1:09:15]
Yes.

Ivan:
[1:09:16]
But I guess it's just I mean, that's me saying something another week, another normal week with Donald Trump on the campaign trail.

Sam:
[1:09:24]
Yeah. And this is this is one of those things where people always struggle in terms of how to cover Donald Trump, et cetera, because like.

And the lies and the crazy rhetoric and the absolutely shocking things he says, frankly, don't shock that much anymore because he's been doing it for years and years and years now.

And so like, you know, yeah, what's your headline going to be?

Donald Trump lies again.

Ivan:
[1:10:01]
Donald Trump lies again. Yes.

Sam:
[1:10:03]
You know or donald donald trump uh you know says racist things again again again and on the one hand yeah i understand it's not new it's not news in the sense that it's like something different and unusual that you want to bring attention to but on the other hand this is exactly the kind thing that needs to be front of mind in an election year for everybody who's making decisions on this.

When you look at what people have been thinking about Donald Trump, one of the things that people are saying is.

Sam:
[1:10:46]
People have just forgotten a bunch of this stuff. Like, you know, it's like out of sight, out of mind, you know, the whole Donald Trump era when he was president was like, you know, what's the outrage of the day?

What's the crazy thing Donald Trump said today?

What's the, you know, we're, we're all worried about like, Oh, what, what now?

You know? And then, but people were exhausted by that.

And so as soon as he was gone, stopped paying attention attention and were grateful for the fact they didn't have to pay attention to him anymore and now when he comes up it's like oh well you know the first four years we survived it was fine and if you're on the conservative side of the fence maybe you have happy memories of like you liked a lot of the stuff he did i don't know but like you know so and all of this kind of stuff seems It seems like it just, you know, water under the bridge, whatever.

But at the same time, like it feels like the, the loss of feeling outraged about these things is, is important.

You know, it's like, yeah, we should be upset all the time, but instead it's like, oh yeah, there he goes again.

Ivan:
[1:11:57]
Him but i i look in the first time when it was an outrage it's still hell he still fucking, managed to win that fucking election and he you know i mean he he made it close the last time Yeah.

Sam:
[1:12:21]
Very.

Ivan:
[1:12:21]
I mean, yeah, he made it close. So it's just this thing where.

And look, I think our biggest problem is that it doesn't matter whether the press covers it every day. This isn't the 1970s.

Unfortunately, we're talking about TV earlier where there were three channels and it bubbles and it's been like that.

It's been turning into that for, you know, decades like right now.

Sam:
[1:12:47]
MSNBC can spend the entire afternoon outraged about something.

It doesn't matter one little tiny bit if it's not on Fox.

Ivan:
[1:12:54]
Wall to wall. It doesn't matter. only you know and and and and hell fox can be outraged all day long about something and very few people see it anyway well.

Sam:
[1:13:07]
Very very few people outside of the bubble they're serving right.

Ivan:
[1:13:11]
Yeah that's.

Sam:
[1:13:12]
That's the thing is that like you know fox's outrage of the week about immigration stuff whatever thing they're hyping up this time.

Ivan:
[1:13:21]
Right folks.

Sam:
[1:13:22]
That are on our side of of the political spectrum don't even see it like people.

Ivan:
[1:13:26]
Have talked.

Sam:
[1:13:27]
Before about how you know the two sides here aren't even talking the same language like if if.

Ivan:
[1:13:34]
But but even in but even in the fox world it's not like that many of those people see it either is what i'm saying, it's just it's not enough i mean they can go and and vilify i don't know pick pick somebody whatever and it doesn't it's not the same it's not the same impact that any of these had before so it's more difficult to move people en masse, right yeah it's not like because back then you basically got it from two newspapers and three three tv networks and that was it right and those are the only ones watching, and the whole nation watched them every fucking day, and so it this whole thing with yeah you could be outraged every day i mean it it's it's very hard back then you could have moves at a needle that were more abrupt the.

Sam:
[1:14:34]
Other side makes fun of the outrage as well so like if if we do spend all kinds of time being oh my god donald trump said bloodbath whatever.

Ivan:
[1:14:42]
Trump derangement syndrome yeah.

Sam:
[1:14:44]
Then it's trump derangement symbol syndrome It's like the liberals, the liberals going crazy about nothing again.

And, or, or even better, like, yeah, he's making the liberals mad.

That's exactly what we want. That's why we like him.

Ivan:
[1:14:58]
Yeah. So. So.

Sam:
[1:15:02]
Okay. We'll take another break now. And just as a heads up, it's going to be something we haven't talked about in depth here for a while.

I'm going to bring up the whole Israel Gaza thing and recent developments and what's going on. Anyway, back after this.

Okay. We are back.

Ivan:
[1:16:23]
Back up back. Breaky, breaky. Back, back. We're back. We're back.

We're back. We're mad. We're sad.

Sam:
[1:16:31]
Something. Or something.

Ivan:
[1:16:34]
Yes.

Sam:
[1:16:35]
Yes.

Ivan:
[1:16:36]
Yes. Okay.

Sam:
[1:16:37]
Here we go.

Ivan:
[1:16:38]
No.

Sam:
[1:16:38]
Maybe. And as I mentioned, we're going to talk about Israel and Gaza and all that kind of stuff.

So, look. Look, there have been a lot of developments in the last week.

It hinged off this, you know, Israel killed some like seven world central kitchen people.

And apparently their report is they thought somebody had a weapon and they didn't realize and it was miscommunication, blah, blah, blah.

I'll start with saying my initial reaction is like all of a sudden, well, not all of of a sudden.

But the Biden administration has used this as an opportunity to start to shift even more in terms of giving Bibi an ultimatum on, you have to do better here or we're going to change.

On the one hand, my initial reaction is, why do these seven people matter that much more more than the much more than seven innocent people that were dying every single day for the last six months i.

Ivan:
[1:17:46]
Think it was just a breaking point more than it it was like.

Sam:
[1:17:49]
You know no i think it's more than that because it's like you it this is the standard thing where like the okay 500 people died today 100 people died today whatever of the sort of gossens of sort of like nameless people, they're not really nameless obviously, but for the most part, we're just looking at the total numbers.

They're all sort of, you know, oh they're.

Sam:
[1:18:18]
They're Arabs, they're Muslims, they're whatever, they're the other, and we're now, okay, we have these seven volunteer workers for a Western NGO, they're from European countries, one of them was an American, you know, they're white, you know, and all of a sudden, oh, these people died.

And it gets a whole bunch more attention than the people who are dying every single fucking day and innocent people dying every day.

I'm not even worried about like, OK, you killed some Hamas people, you know, innocent people dying every day, kids dying every day.

But somehow these seven matter more.

And that kind of really rubs me the wrong way. However, it has sort of caused an escalation in terms of how the Biden administration is dealing with this issue.

Now, I'll go back to when we have talked about this before, we've said that, okay, look, Biden's trying his best in an unwinnable situation, essentially, trying to influence Israel behind the scenes, etc. et cetera.

Sam:
[1:19:26]
I, and it's been a long time since we talked about this. So I will say, I think the moves that the Biden administration is making this week are long overdue.

Like at this point, I, I feel like I probably flipped to the, we needed to be doing this kind of stuff. Um, By December at the latest, probably even earlier in terms of, you know, hey, yes, of course, you know, we expect the Israelis are going to do something. They have to do something, blah, blah, blah.

There's no way they can, even if the smartest thing to do in some sort of intellectual thing is turn the other cheek and whatever, there was no way that was going to happen.

And I think all the people who've been like, who are like Joe's enabling genocide, genocide, Joe, blah, blah, blah.

I think those people are unhinged, and that's way beyond.

However, I feel that it was clear that the influence, the Israelis behind the scenes, without doing things publicly and without taking explicit actions like slowing down military aid to Israel, we probably should have flipped that a while ago.

Ivan:
[1:20:45]
Well, Sam, I mean, look, look, we're focusing on this specifically, but and saying, well, now they're taking action.

Look, something before even this happened.

Sam:
[1:20:58]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:20:59]
The U.S. had done something unprecedented in in in Israel.

U.S. relations at the at the at the U.N. Security Council.

Sam:
[1:21:07]
Where last last week we allowed the resolution to go through.

We abstained instead of vetoing.

Ivan:
[1:21:13]
Exactly. Exactly. And that was before this happened. Yeah. Okay. And so.

Sam:
[1:21:18]
I mean, it was clearly ramping up anyway.

Ivan:
[1:21:21]
Exactly. I take a different thing.

Well, the Biden administration only did something after these people.

Sam:
[1:21:27]
No, no. It's not that they only did something.

Ivan:
[1:21:30]
No, no, no. But a lot of people have been saying that. I'm not saying a lot of people. That's what they've been saying.

And the reality is that they have been stepping up the pressure significantly the last several months.

Sam:
[1:21:40]
Oh, and they've been sick. And it's specifically over the last month.

There has been a ramp up of, you know, just leaks that Joe is done.

Ivan:
[1:21:53]
Yeah.

Sam:
[1:21:54]
Is at the end of his rope. He's impatient. He's he's really pissed.

He's like, this has to change. And so some of the complaints are like, well, yeah, we keep hearing that stuff. but when do we see something actually happen?

I think the UN resolution was the first sense of that.

Ivan:
[1:22:10]
Well, no, but there was other stuff where, with the food drops, the building of the, the building of the, of this pier that they were doing in order to circumvent the blockade, there had been, there were a number of, of, of incremental moves.

Sam:
[1:22:26]
There were a lot of incremental moves. I think that where people were was, you know, the, the, the one thing that people keep coming back to are first.

They wanted a clear call for a permanent ceasefire from the administration.

The administration is still calling for, they still aren't using the word permanent when they call for ceasefire, but they are calling for ceasefire.

They also has been demand of like, stop sending weapons to Israel.

And that the administration has not done yet.

That's the next thing that they have in their arsenal of potential things to threaten with, essentially.

And I think there was a phone call between Netanyahu and Biden for the first time in over a month in the last couple of days, and apparently...

The readouts don't officially say it, but the read between the lines is you got to shape up or we're fundamentally changing what we're doing.

And what people interpret that is, yeah, we're going to stop sending you weapons and we're going to start openly advocating saying what you're doing is wrong.

You know, flat out wrong. You need to change your approach.

We've already had sort of the Schumer made the comment about Israel needs new elections.

And Biden was like, yeah, that sounds good to me.

So you're absolutely right. Things have been ramping up this whole time.

People just argue about the speed.

Ivan:
[1:23:56]
Yeah, no, no, I agree. But I will say that to me, the one thing that really tipped me way on the fuck this shit.

OK, with them. OK, completely 100 percent. And I'm not talking about the Biden administration.

I'm talking, you know, where my slack, they completely like eroded a lot of the credibility that I mean, all the any credibility they had.

OK, the Israelis got completely eroded.

Was was that report that came out by Israeli soldiers where they were talking about the AI assisted targeting that they were using?

Sam:
[1:24:33]
That was this week as well. I was going to bring that up shortly. Yeah, go ahead.

Ivan:
[1:24:36]
That they were using in the field. That was so just...

I mean, egregiously not giving a shit about any civilian life whatsoever.

Sam:
[1:24:52]
Well, let's talk about two things specifically that came up here.

So there was a report, I believe it was in The Guardian.

Ivan:
[1:24:58]
It was in The Guardian.

Sam:
[1:25:00]
About this, how the Israelis were fundamentally using an AI system to identify targets that used a whole bunch of stuff, and when to hit people.

And the way it was described, there's actually a parameter for like the level of acceptable civilian losses in order to get one target.

Ivan:
[1:25:22]
Right.

Sam:
[1:25:23]
And that parameter was tuned to between 15 and 20 civilians dead to get one low level target.

Ivan:
[1:25:30]
One low level person.

Sam:
[1:25:32]
Right. And so presumably high level people, even higher ratio was acceptable.

Ivan:
[1:25:37]
I mean, exactly.

Sam:
[1:25:38]
And so like that... The whole notion there that it's fine to kill 20 innocents in order to get one bad guy.

Ivan:
[1:25:49]
One low-level bad guy.

Sam:
[1:25:51]
One low-level bad guy. And I know arguing about ratios is like a slippery slope.

I mean, if you want to argue about ratios, just look at total number of Palestinians versus total number of Israelis dead.

You know, yes, Hamas killed like almost 2,000 people. people at this point, the death toll in, in Gaza is over 30,000, according to the best estimates.

Ivan:
[1:26:15]
Exactly. It's not proportional. The response is not proportional in any way, in any way, shape or form.

Sam:
[1:26:20]
No, it's not, it's not proportional at all.

But, but, but with this particular thing in terms of the ratio, I mean, that's, that's a horrifying ratio, but it also came out this week that their preferred technique to get their targets was they would monitor them and their their location and wait until they went home and then blow up their house.

Because they felt like that was the most reliable way to get them was once they're at home, once they're like letting their guard down. But guess what?

That's where their family is, too.

Ivan:
[1:26:54]
So they were guaranteeing that they would wipe out their whole family. Yes.

Sam:
[1:26:58]
And like, you know, you say that's sort of what tipped you over the edge.

I feel like I went over the edge months earlier in terms of just.

Ivan:
[1:27:05]
Well, I mean, I say tip tip over. Maybe the word is where I think where any credibility about what they were doing that they had left was gone.

Okay, that I think was the thing about that.

Because it had been sliding.

Sam:
[1:27:29]
Yeah, I think they lost that a long time ago, but you're right.

This sort of was a shocking.

Ivan:
[1:27:33]
No, I think to me it was sliding. Okay. All right. Right.

But whatever the fuck was left that, I mean that now they completely grounded down to zero.

Sam:
[1:27:46]
Right.

Ivan:
[1:27:48]
And this is, and, and let's be clear. This is all from the leadership. This is all BB.

Sam:
[1:27:57]
Yeah. Oh, the protests against this are growing.

Yeah. Like there, there are massive protests going on in Israel about the way this is going.

And this is not the right way to proceed, et cetera.

Ivan:
[1:28:11]
I mean, it's appalling right now. I will say like right now I'm fucking like, I mean, I'm calling BB a fucking, you know, war criminal at this point.

Sam:
[1:28:22]
Yeah, I think so.

Ivan:
[1:28:25]
I mean, and I, and I, you know, I am one that totally empathizes with what happened to Israel, but, you know, turning into a fucking war criminal or resolve it, you know, I was never in favor of it when the U.S.

did it because, you know, after 9-1-1, I sure as hell am not going to be fucking, you know, giving BB the thumbs up after this either.

Sam:
[1:28:48]
Well, we said right after this happened that, you know, this was not like the rational thing would be try to try to come up with a policy that will reduce the chances of this happening again. end.

And guess what? The real way to do that is to come up with a good piece that actually makes the Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza successful and happy.

But this was about revenge.

This was never about anything other than revenge. Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:29:18]
And that's the problem. And I said immediately afterwards that, The Hamas went and baited, they knew who the guy on the other side was, and they decided to do something with maximum impact to kill as many civilians because they really pretty much were sure they were going to manipulate Bibi into doing this.

and what they were going to do is with this this was going to be their pr absolutely victory and guess what absolutely worked from that standpoint they they completely won that because yeah.

Sam:
[1:30:03]
This is this is something and i don't know if i guess bb just doesn't care but like i.

Ivan:
[1:30:11]
Think in part he He doesn't care because he's also like Donald Trump in the sense that, man, you know what? You know, it was like reading today, and I think it's totally true.

The reason why this war right now is dragging on as long as it's dragged out is because it's the only thing that's keeping Bibi in power.

So he doesn't also wind up in jail.

Sam:
[1:30:32]
Right. Well, and look, here's the thing.

Like, Israel was already looked at negatively by most of the world before this.

Ivan:
[1:30:41]
But this completely destroyed their global image.

Sam:
[1:30:44]
The U.S. and Europe were still sticking by Israel.

And, you know, because of the whole history of it and what happened in World War II. Yeah, totally.

And all of this other stuff. But, like, you know, at this point, Israel has lost the support of most of Europe.

within the United States, Biden is now paying a political price for sticking with them as long as he has.

And the overall impression like U.S. wise is going against it.

There's still some diehard Israel supporters in the U.S. And just to be clear, because I know this always comes up.

Ivan:
[1:31:24]
No, no, no, no. Let's be clear about this. We're talking about Israel political policy right now, their leadership not not the country well.

Sam:
[1:31:30]
And not not not the religion not the people not the.

Ivan:
[1:31:34]
Whatever no this.

Sam:
[1:31:35]
Is to criticize what israel is doing is not anti-semitic you know.

Ivan:
[1:31:41]
Yeah this is an indictment of the netanyahu administration and those that put them there it's the same way indict donald trump for all the shit that he did they have the same burden on their backs they They have turned, they have, they have, what they have done at this point is just, they taken it to the completely unacceptable level.

And I mean, he needs to be removed from office. I mean, you know, it's just, it's just, there's the only way to end this.

But, but look, this thing with BB has been, you know, building up for the last 15, 20 years, man.

I mean, this isn't just now, this is, this is like, I mean, this has been such a build.

all the unacceptable things that he's done for so long right now.

And to me, it's like, he's taken it now with this that happened into the ultimate level.

And really he has been the main driver of this.

Sam:
[1:32:44]
Right. And he's turned the country into an international pariah.

I mean, like the, the, the, the people defending it are dwindling rapidly.

I mean, even at the, at the very beginning of this, There were people saying, you know, America, you are such hypocrites for going after Russia for what they're doing in Ukraine, but you're okay with this? You know?

And, yeah, I can't disagree that much, especially like...

Ivan:
[1:33:14]
At this point? No.

Sam:
[1:33:15]
At this point, like, and like I said, at the latest, I think, like I flipped in December, but it was actually earlier.

Like, I feel like, you know, of course they were going to respond, but I feel like they entered into the realm of an unacceptable level of civilian destruction right after they started.

Like, it was clear from almost the beginning that they were just not caring and they were, and some of the people in the government openly said their goal is to level the damn place.

you know kill everybody and level it.

Ivan:
[1:33:52]
Well if you're a Kushner was like I mean it's basically I mean like right now this is like revenge I and I for to you know, It's just, I mean, it's just, they basically, they take the Hamas charter and turn it around on them, basically.

Sam:
[1:34:10]
Yeah. Now, I still, like, I don't, again, I don't, if you want to put the genocide label on Netanyahu, I'm like, okay, I can buy that at this point, right?

Ivan:
[1:34:22]
No, no, but I'm saying that some people want that. What I'm saying is that some people definitely want, I mean, you.

Sam:
[1:34:27]
No, no, no. Right, right.

Ivan:
[1:34:28]
Did you not hear Jared Kushner talking about it? Why don't we just remove all these people, send them into a fucking desert and we can build condos over there?

Sam:
[1:34:35]
Yes, he was saying that. And then there was another Republican person who talked about nuking the place, et cetera.

Ivan:
[1:34:42]
Nuking the place!

Sam:
[1:34:43]
You know, like, but my point is like, if you want to start talking about sort of war crime slash genocide charges against Netanyahu, okay, you have a reasonable case at this point. Right.

The people who try to put that on Biden, I think, are still that's come on.

You know, like I think Biden could have changed directions faster than he has, perhaps faster by a lot.

But if you look at it, what I see is someone who you may disagree on what methods he was using and how effective they were.

But I feel like from the very day this started, he has been actively trying to minimize what's happening internally.

From the very beginning. The ceasefire we did have was brokered by the Biden administration.

Yvonne, you rattled off a list of humanitarian things that the Biden administration has been trying to do.

They clearly have been trying to pressure the Netanyahu administration to change direction. They have not succeeded.

Ivan:
[1:35:52]
No.

Sam:
[1:35:52]
But but they I think they've been trying really damn hard to try to bring this thing to a conclusion as quickly as possible.

Sam:
[1:36:05]
And, you know, and again, what you're what you're arguing about is has Biden shifted gears fast enough?

And I know like people are like, well, he's still sending weapons.

And as long as he's sending weapons, he's supporting the genocide.

genocide but i see people talking about like this as if biden's actual goal was genocide of the gazans yeah no i think he's been fighting this the whole damn time and the argument here is has he picked the most effective way to do that probably not has he been doing something where he's trying to like balance a whole bunch of things that may not all be in the public yeah i mean i i saw I saw someone speculate in the last couple of days that part of this may be he's still holding out hope of trying to get a deal with the Saudis involved here and a peace deal between Saudis and Israelis to come out at some point.

And so he's trying not to, I mean, I think a part of this from the very beginning, and we both said this on the show, is if Biden on day one had taken a stance of, no, the Israelis can't do this, and the Israelis are wrong, and we're not sending them weapons on day one, we would have lost all influence whatsoever in this situation.

And so he's trying to maintain a situation where we, you know, if you...

Sam:
[1:37:27]
If you take all of the potential leverage you have off the table at the beginning, then it either works or it doesn't. And if it doesn't work, you're done.

You have nothing else you can do.

Whereas if you what Biden's trying to do is he was trying to use the softer leverage first and ramp up over time.

And clearly, we we still haven't gotten to the point where Netanyahu is changing anything.

Ivan:
[1:37:50]
But well, speaking of stupid shit that Netanyahu has done.

So are you look, did you also see this news story or report tonight that this alert related to the the Israelis had struck this Iranian consulate?

Sam:
[1:38:06]
Yeah. OK. Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:38:08]
To kill this guy in Syria and that the Israel and the US are on alert for Iran to strike back at Israel and that they are expecting some kind of like significantly large response like right now at this point.

Sam:
[1:38:22]
Yeah, basically at any time.

Ivan:
[1:38:24]
Yeah, basically at any time. Isn't that lovely?

Sam:
[1:38:28]
Yeah. That's the other thing Biden has been doing, by the way.

And I think most of this has been behind the scenes is really, really hard trying to keep this from escalating into a regional conflict where everybody is in an all out war.

Ivan:
[1:38:44]
Yep. Yeah.

Sam:
[1:38:45]
And this is exactly that kind of thing. And I mean, maybe maybe he fails yet again at this, but like, I think he's really actively trying.

And I know people will say, oh, you're just making excuses for Joe Biden and he's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But look, these situations are goddamn complicated.

And, you know, I feel like the people who are like, well, he should just take the moral stand on day one.

I understand that, that, that desire, but, but he did, he told BB on day one, like, look at the mistakes we made after nine 11, don't make the same mistakes.

Ivan:
[1:39:20]
And maybe he's like, oh, I'll take those mistakes and I'll triple that.

Sam:
[1:39:24]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:39:27]
In terms of, I'd say, proportionality, like at this point.

Sam:
[1:39:30]
Yeah, yeah.

Ivan:
[1:39:31]
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just, you know.

Sam:
[1:39:33]
Well, if you look at how many Iraqis we killed compared to how many people Iraqis killed at 9-11, which was none because they weren't involved.

Ivan:
[1:39:41]
No, but I'm not getting that part of the Iraq war, but I'm talking more as a percentage of the population that we were striking when we were going after the people that did 9-11.

I mean, you know, the collateral damage that they have decided that they are comfortable with in Israel in order to do a military reprisal has been is much higher.

Sam:
[1:40:02]
I mean, we just to be clear, there was a lot of collateral damage in Afghanistan as well.

Ivan:
[1:40:07]
Oh, yeah. Yeah, no doubt.

Sam:
[1:40:08]
You know, and that's part of the reason why things turned south there is that like, yeah, we might have gotten a few Al Qaeda people, but we killed a shitload of of innocent people, too.

you know so this is and this this brings the whole thing is like okay i understand the revenge impulse but if you're actually after like making things better in the long run you don't do it by like mass killing of innocents because that only makes more enemies over time you know it.

Ivan:
[1:40:41]
Makes everything worse it just builds a bigger cycle i mean shit it's why fucking sadat and bagan did a peace deal after you know you know between israel and egypt in the first place.

Sam:
[1:40:57]
Now fucking.

Ivan:
[1:40:58]
Sadat got to the point where he was like what the fuck are we doing you know No.

Sam:
[1:41:03]
I mean, the the only long term solution for this region is make it so everybody is wealthy and prosperous and happy. You know what?

Ivan:
[1:41:19]
Well, well, it's not just the money. The Saudis are wealthy and it's a terror. I think I know.

Sam:
[1:41:25]
I know. Prosperous and happy is an important part of that. The point is you can't have a permanent underclass who you are restricting.

Ivan:
[1:41:36]
You have under your thumb.

Sam:
[1:41:37]
Yes.

Ivan:
[1:41:38]
Yeah.

Sam:
[1:41:38]
The only way out of this is a scenario where you have people in the West Bank and Gaza who are actually happy and content with their lives and think things are going in a good direction.

You don't come to...

peace in our times while you're still making those people's lives miserable as an intentional policy.

Ivan:
[1:42:06]
I remember and i have for some reason i can't find the the the dvd itself right now but i have the cover of the movie is one is a movie called oh what the hell deal of the century okay it was was about an arms deal okay and they had an arms show at the end they were really parodying the military you know industry okay and the sale of arms and they had this banner that said i think arms for peace something like that you know okay you know war for you know war for peace So those are just slogans is like, you know, peace through war, you know, it's like that kind of those kind of like incongruent slogans, you know, in there. This is kind of like the whole thing.

This is this is that right now.

Sam:
[1:43:03]
Yeah, I look at this scenario and say any attempt to come up with a peace plan, if it's not contingent on how do we make Palestinian lives better?

right then you're you're then you're losing from the beginning now of course part of the problem is for the entirety of netanyahu's influence on israeli politics he absolutely does not want to make palestinian lives better like he wants to make them worse exactly.

Ivan:
[1:43:32]
Not not even close that's been what he has done this is the reason why this situation has gotten progressively worse yeah so.

Sam:
[1:43:41]
And and yeah I I keep hoping for the moment where we're like okay we've turned the corner things are starting to get better we're not there yet.

Ivan:
[1:43:52]
I keep wondering when the, I mean, I've been wanting Netanyahu gone for over a decade and this motherfucker keeps coming, you know, keep surviving.

Sam:
[1:44:01]
Well, and Israeli politics are dynamic enough that, you know, yeah, there are a lot of people protesting him right now, but it's, the whole way their parliament is structured is hard to get, you know, workable majorities.

And like, it's unclear exactly what would happen the day after he's gone anyway.

Like maybe we'd get something better. Maybe we wouldn't hopefully cross fingers, but like it's, it's messy.

Ivan:
[1:44:32]
I mean, I think, I mean, right now, anybody, but, but BB is better thing.

Sam:
[1:44:38]
Anybody would be better. Yes. There, there are worse people in the Israeli government than BB amazingly enough, but.

Ivan:
[1:44:46]
Fuck.

Sam:
[1:44:48]
But hopefully you would get somebody better because especially like right now the the protest movement and everything else I said, like, I think the the population of Israel knows that what they're doing is not the right way out of this scenario.

They want a lot more concentration on get the get get the hostages back.

And they don't and I don't think they want a 30 to one ratio in terms of killing innocents. You know?

Ivan:
[1:45:13]
No, no, they don't either. So, all right.

Sam:
[1:45:18]
Okay. I think we're wrapped. I think it's time to wrap things up.

Ivan:
[1:45:21]
Yeah. Wrap it up. Put a bow on it.

Sam:
[1:45:24]
A bow.

Ivan:
[1:45:25]
Put some butter on it.

Sam:
[1:45:26]
Butter? Bow and butter?

Ivan:
[1:45:29]
Yeah. Butter.

Sam:
[1:45:30]
A butter bow.

Ivan:
[1:45:31]
Yeah. Butter makes everything better.

Sam:
[1:45:35]
It does. So that's your solution to peace in the Middle East.

Dump a whole bunch of butter.

Ivan:
[1:45:42]
I mean, look. Look, I will say, I do think that if we sent everybody over there.

Sam:
[1:45:49]
Well, isn't, isn't that a part of the world? Like I saw a map lately.

I like last week, I saw a map that showed like countries across the world in terms of whether they were butter countries or whether they were olive oil countries.

I'm pretty sure this part of the world is more an olive oil area than a butter area.

Ivan:
[1:46:09]
Ah, maybe you're right. Maybe you're maybe.

I still believe I still believe that if you give a lot of people some very nice hot baguettes with some good butter, butter, really good butter.

Yeah, not not the shitty kind of the really good stuff.

Sam:
[1:46:33]
OK, OK.

Ivan:
[1:46:33]
You know, give me some lure pack, you know, that kind of stuff.

Uh-huh.

You know, you get that and just take a bite of that.

You're like, oh my God, you know, the world's got to be better.

We just need to send everybody. That's my peace plan.

Sam:
[1:47:16]
Baguettes for everyone.

Ivan:
[1:47:18]
Baguettes and butter.

Sam:
[1:47:19]
Baguettes and butter.

Ivan:
[1:47:21]
Warm baguettes.

Sam:
[1:47:23]
Okay. Baguettes and butter. There's our episode title.

Ivan:
[1:47:27]
Yeah.

Sam:
[1:47:28]
Okay. Thank you everybody for joining us for a little bit of a curmudgeon tour.

corner as usual you can go to curmudgeon-corner.com you can find all the ways to contact us you can find our archives the thing i mentioned last week about the the the transcripts not looking quite right the last few weeks i still haven't fixed that oh i don't know when i'll get to it i'll get you know the thing is that kind of stuff takes time i don't have time someday anyway and someday.

Ivan:
[1:47:59]
You'll use some of those vacation days.

Sam:
[1:48:01]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe. You know, I always take off, like, when the election is imminent, I'm going to take off at least two to three weeks.

Ivan:
[1:48:11]
Oh, did we talk about the fact that you went to the office, you know, just to, you know, without your laptop?

no we didn't we.

Sam:
[1:48:22]
We did not so okay real quick here the the fundamental story, is that i had i had to shift things around like i you you guys all know i have to go into the office three days a week whatever blah blah blah and for whatever reasons like i i usually don't don't go into the office on Fridays.

I usually try, like I do Monday, Wednesday, Friday, it depends.

Ivan:
[1:48:52]
Like whatever you have to change your schedule. Okay. So I got you all Fugazi.

Sam:
[1:48:56]
Whatever. I had to change the schedule and I was going to go into the office on a Friday.

And sometimes honestly, Mondays and Fridays are actually good days to go to an office because traffic is less because most people do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

So traffic is less on Mondays and Fridays.

There are less people in the office. So you can just sit and get some some stuff done.

But anyway, I had noted that this particular Friday, like I literally had nothing in terms of like meetings with people that I had to be at or anything.

So I was like, I told Yvonne, you know, I'm, I'm going to go in, I'm going to drive in.

And we talked on the show, like it was, it was a whole topic last week.

The, you know, very few people were going to be in because a good Friday, the holiday weekend, blah, blah, blah.

And so I expected to go in and have a a really quiet day and get some stuff done.

When I actually drove in, I drove in and it turns out I left my laptop at home.

So I literally, like I for the most part haven't been doing this coffee badging thing that people talk about where they like come in, they have a cup of coffee, they leave. But this time.

Sam:
[1:50:00]
I came in, I made myself not coffee. I made myself some tea.

I drank some tea. I sat around. I, I, I did a lap of the thing.

I found like there were two people that I actually knew that were there on the floor.

One of them was behind a closed door in like a clearly in a meeting.

So I didn't interrupt them.

The other one is somebody that I've just recently, like within the last month changed my role a little bit. And I'm interacting with new people.

One of those people was there. And so I like said, hi, I said, hi, I'm here, but I left my laptop at home. So I'm leaving. Bye.

And, and then I left, I was probably in the office like half an hour or something.

Cause like, and, and, oh, I did, I did like look at some, yeah, we use, we use Slack at work just like we do for a curmudgeons corner and I have Slack on my phone.

So I did like check some Slack messages and stuff.

Ivan:
[1:50:51]
Right, right, right.

Sam:
[1:50:53]
But like without my laptop.

Ivan:
[1:50:54]
You have to go back to get your damn laptop to get that. had no choice.

Sam:
[1:50:59]
And it didn't make any sense to like go back get my laptop and then go back to work again and come.

Ivan:
[1:51:03]
Back again no no no.

Sam:
[1:51:05]
You know that that'd just be idiotic so so yeah i i so.

Ivan:
[1:51:10]
You should have taken my advice.

Sam:
[1:51:11]
And just taken the day off yeah i mean i did get some stuff done later in the day but you know the whole the whole going back and forth sort of killed the like i'm just gonna sit down and chug through a bunch of stuff like it killed the momentum but i did get get some stuff done anyway and blah, blah, blah.

But yeah, I'm, and this, by the way, is not the only time I've forgotten my laptop when I've driven to work.

It has happened before, but it's always sort of like, oh crap.

Well, I guess I have to go home now.

Ivan:
[1:51:40]
So, I mean, I, I would say that I'm sure that's how I think that's happened maybe once or twice, like in my, you know, that I've done that in 25 years of work. I still remember the worst time though.

that I did it was that I went on a damn business trip and I left my damn laptop on the desk.

Now, when I got, and I was like, now what I, what I did is I realized that when I was on the plane and it was at the office, thank God.

So I got one of the assistants to go grab the fucking laptop.

They had boxes where to ship the laptops.

Sam:
[1:52:12]
Like overnight FedEx it.

Ivan:
[1:52:14]
Yeah. They basically were able to FedEx it. And I had it at the, at the, at the hotel early in the morning the next day.

so i was able to get it but it was like but that one was like shit i realized that as i'm on the i'm on the plane i was going to open the laptop to do some work and i go oh shit the laptops you know and and this is the thing is that we had docking stations that are at our desks and that's where it was it was it was the damn docking station.

Sam:
[1:52:44]
Well and what happened particularly this time, the reason I forgot it is I had initially planned like to drop Alex at school that morning and then come home.

And I forget what I was going to do. I was, I was going to take a shower or something.

And, and, but then after I dropped Alex off, I'm like, you know, I'm like, I don't smell that bad and I'm hungry. So I'm going to stop somewhere to eat instead.

So instead of going going home, showering, and then going to work and picking up my laptop while I was at home.

I went to like a diner and had like breakfast and then went straight to work.

Ivan:
[1:53:25]
Oops. Oops.

Sam:
[1:53:27]
And I forgot the whole part where I was going to stop at home to get the laptop amongst other things.

And so, yeah, I just went without. And so there you go. Anyway.

So I was saying, go to curmudgeons-corner.com you can find our archives you can find our ways to contact us all of that and of course you can find our Patreon where you can give us money at various levels we will mention you on the show we will ring a bell we will send you a postcard we will send you a mug all this kind of stuff, and very importantly at two dollars a month or more or if you just ask us we will invite you to our curmudgeons corner slack where Yvonne and I and a bunch of other people we mentioned Greg today, we're slackers are slacking and and sharing links, talking about current events, all this kind of other stuff. It's fun.

The more the merrier. So please join us.

Ivan:
[1:54:18]
We shared stories about the earthquake today.

Sam:
[1:54:21]
Yeah. Oh, yeah, because there are various people on our Slack.

Ivan:
[1:54:24]
People in the area.

Sam:
[1:54:25]
Live in that area. John. John in our area. John in our area.

John on our Slack lives in New Jersey and felt the earthquake and chatted to us a little bit about it. His dog was upset for a very short amount of time and then went back to sleep. Yeah, so fun.

And yeah, and some of you out there listeners already have Slack accounts, but very rarely join us. You should join us more often. It's fun.

Ivan:
[1:54:52]
Yes.

Sam:
[1:54:54]
That's it. We are done. Oh, did you, did you have something from the Slack that you want to highlight?

Ivan:
[1:54:58]
I do. I do.

Sam:
[1:55:01]
Okay. Go for it. Yes.

Ivan:
[1:55:04]
Overserved Lauren Boberg cut off from booze at Trump event.

apparently she got drunk and people had to tell her we're not going to bring any more alcohol you've been over served and then apparently she was drunk and i guess she wanted to go like grope donald and like take pictures with him and the security detail had to basically stop her from that.

Sam:
[1:55:27]
Nice nice that great oh and an mtg yeah thinks that the earthquake and the eclipse are the sign are signs that god is telling us that america is going the wrong direction and we need to change oh.

Ivan:
[1:55:45]
I thought it was going to be the rapture is going to take her.

Sam:
[1:55:47]
We could only be so lucky.

Ivan:
[1:55:50]
Oh god yes.

Sam:
[1:55:51]
You know every time people describe the rapture only thing i can think is the world would be so much better with those people gone so like bring it on.

Ivan:
[1:56:02]
Bring it on yeah i know let's do it please what are you waiting for.

Sam:
[1:56:08]
Anyway we are done thank you for joining us on yet another curmudgeons corner we'll be here again next week if all goes as planned so everybody have fun stay safe all that kind of stuff oh.

Ivan:
[1:56:22]
Okay if all goes planned yes yeah okay yeah yeah.

Sam:
[1:56:27]
And we'll we'll we'll be here you'll be here everyone like we'll anyway come back again next week here's the bye-bye thing okay bye bye-bye, Okay, thank you, Mr. Bo. Hitting stop.

Ivan:
[1:57:14]
Stop!


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