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Ep 862[Ep 863] Make An Egg [2:06:18]
Recorded: Sat, 2023-Dec-23 UTC
Published: Sun, 2023-Dec-24 19:04 UTC
Ep 864

This week on Curmudgeon's Corner, Sam and Ivan once again ask for suggestions for things to predict on next week's predictions show. So get on that! After a bit on workplace meeting culture, third places, and Dr. Strangelove, they get down to business with Rudy, Donald, Joe, and even Bo. Plus some economy stuff. And that be a show!

  • (0:02:00-0:47:06) But First
    • Need Things to Predict!
    • Work Meeting Culture
    • Third Places
    • Movie: Dr. Strangelove (1964)
  • (0:45:51-1:36:29) But Second
    • Rudy Bankrupt
    • Trump Immunity Review
    • 14th Amendment Case
    • Presidential Polls
  • (1:37:36-2:05:47) But Third
    • Economic Update
    • Boring Joe
    • MAGA Bo

Automated Transcript


Ivan:
[0:02]
Okay usual way of doing this yeah let's go okay you have a nice shirt on that's because all the t-shirts were dirty, why do i have a nice shirt on well shit i ran out of all the t-shirts damn it That's great.

Okay.

Sam:
[0:34]
Okay. I'm going to have to add all the sounds after the fact this time. Oh God.

Ivan:
[0:39]
Okay, dude, what's going on with that?

Sam:
[0:42]
I don't know. I actually submitted a help ticket and it was, they were unhelpful.

They gave me like standard troubleshooting things and blah, blah, blah. I actually suspect it like everything else on my computer right now comes down to not having enough memory.

Ivan:
[1:00]
Okay.

Sam:
[1:01]
And, and, you know, so it's, it's actually a problem with me, but okay.

Ivan:
[1:06]
It is a problem with me. I am me.

I have to be free. Free, I gotta be me to live my own.

Oh, I was just doing the intro music.

Sam:
[1:29]
Okay, okay. With that, we will pretend the music plays now.

Welcome to Curmudgeon's Corner for Saturday, December 23rd, 2023.

It is 3.26 UTC as we are starting to record. I'm Sam Mentor, Yvonne Boas here. Hello, Yvonne.

Ivan:
[2:14]
Hello. Hello.

Sam:
[2:18]
Yeah, that's got to be the hello, hello, hello.

If you say it with enough like whatever that was in it, it becomes so much more. Or Helloish.

Yeah. Magnificent.

Ivan:
[2:33]
Magnificent. It's a great word.

Sam:
[2:34]
Anyway, we are here. It is the end of December.

Before we get into it, we will do our usual back and forth. And as usual, the first couple will be lighter than blah, blah, blah.

But as I was mentioning the end of December, I will once again, this time at the very beginning beginning of the show mentioned that next week will be our magnificent end of the year prediction show where we will be predicting things from, from this for the year 2024.

And once again, nobody has put anything on the little Google thing we put out.

I am disappointed in everyone.

So once again, It is tinyurl.com slash ccpred2024.

If you have things you want us to predict, start putting them in there.

I have refrained from adding any of my own so far, but time is running out.

So starting, I don't know exactly when I'll get this show out.

I'm going to try to get it out before Christmas day.

But after Christmas day is done and passed on Tuesday, I'm going to start putting in all our usual sorts of things that we have.

Yvonne, I'm sure you can add some of your own, but if anybody else out there wants to start dropping some questions in that they want us to predict, you are running out of time.

I don't know which day we'll record next week, but if.

I don't know which day we'll record next week, but if you want input into what we make predictions on, now's the time. Do not delay any further.

Tinyurl.com slash ccpred2024.

Otherwise, we will just record two hours of Yvonne saying pain.

Ivan:
[4:24]
I can do it. Well, I only need to say it a couple of times and then we can just loop it.

Sam:
[4:30]
Yeah, but it's more interesting if we just make you say it over and over and over and watch as your voice goes out.

Ivan:
[4:35]
Are you going to make me say it over and over? My voice starts just completely degrading over time. That'd be interesting.

Yeah. To see how long I could do that for. Yes.

Sam:
[4:44]
You know, I was listening to one of our old shows and as usual, like we have this theme that we get back to all the time on, you know, people making money on stupid podcasts and stupid YouTube shows and stuff.

Ivan:
[4:56]
So I think our next idea is just me saying pain, pain, pain, pain. Pain, pain, pain, pain for two hours straight.

Sam:
[5:09]
I got to do this right. And then we can loop that into a 10 hour loop.

Ivan:
[5:14]
Fuck yeah. But we have to start with two hours of, you know, we could get a serious, except we get like a serious except channel, you know, where, which is broadcasting live, you know, just be saying that, that we could put it out in a short wave, you know, something.

Are there people still broadcasting in shortwave?

Sam:
[5:37]
It's much less than it used to be, but there's still people out there doing it.

And, you know, they could be analyzing that the same way they analyze the CIA numbers stations and stuff like that.

To try to figure out the code.

Ivan:
[5:54]
You know, that'd be great for me to do that and then find out that there's a whole bunch of people trying to decipher.

Cipher for you know spending like there are groups online you know on reddit and whatever people like delving into trying to understand the details of you know and the code of involved inside my two-hour recording of saying pain pain pain over and over and we will probably find all all these people and all these theories and conspiracy theories and all sorts of things and so forth and whatever, you know, for me to just burst or, well, here's the other problem.

Even if I say the truth, they still won't believe it anyway.

Sam:
[6:40]
No. And, and of course the scariest option is they actually find something in there, right?

That it, it did mean some secret message and you were not aware, but yet it was still still there.

So some, there must be like an implant in your brain or something that was influenced.

Ivan:
[6:59]
Oh yes. It was the, you know, with the, with the vaccines, Bill Gates.

Sam:
[7:02]
Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Ivan:
[7:04]
I forgot about, forgot about that.

Sam:
[7:07]
So anyway, Yvonne, what's your actual first topic of the day?

My, my first one as usual is going to be like a movie.

So you can go first unless you want the movie first.

Ivan:
[7:17]
So I actually today have had a, A company team lunch.

Sam:
[7:27]
Ooh.

Ivan:
[7:28]
Now, here's the thing. I don't think I've been in any organized company group activity since the last time we had a Christmas lunch and a year lunch of some kind.

So, you know, it's just one of those things.

Were and one of the topics of conversation that came up was well we had you know our company shut down their local offices we had two those were shut down but we had been talking that you know it's a little bit how we found and i i had felt this but i heard other people express it how they found it really awkward sometimes now to go and interact in person a little bit okay yep yep and and and this is not coming from people that had any issues with that in the past okay it's just that it's a skill yeah you're kind of like rusty and i've noticed that myself that i've I've been a little bit on the rusty side on that, but somebody else mentioned it, and I thought, oh, okay, so it's not just me, and so we were talking about that.

But I think that one of the topics that we were talking about.

The engagement and people and how there are certain people that have a certain discipline about working from home.

And then we're, we're talking about a whole bunch, which confess that they basically, you know, wouldn't even bathe just, just the same t-shirt and shorts.

Sam:
[9:23]
Oh, damn right. I'll confess.

Ivan:
[9:24]
Yeah, no, no. So there was a number there that are on, on your group.

Definitely. You know, there, there, i would say the majority i i have to definitely fall into the minority that i just couldn't do that it felt really uncomfortable to me i admit it starts to feel uncomfortable to me after a few days okay and and then like after a few weeks then i'm like okay i have to do something about it okay well i not quite that's a slight exaggeration but not a but not a big exaggeration so so i found that you know, to me that's quite uncomfortable but for most of them they had been in that routine that they had been struggling to actually well some are talking about the fact that look they're getting really fatigued for just being working, remotely in certain instances so people buying certain physical conditions from the work station that they're using and so forth which oh like just like Like crappy ergonomics and that kind of stuff?

Yeah, so bad backs, bad stuff, other stuff and whatnot.

But one thing is that they had...

Also expressed a little bit of an issue they've been having which i think this is this is this is just an issue that i think the pandemic made worse of people on conference calls that are supposedly multitasking but really just are completely disengaged they don't even know what what the hell's going on?

Sam:
[11:05]
Well, Nicole. Yeah. And there's, I mean, I mean, look, here's the reality of like, quote unquote, multitasking during cause.

There are a variety of different types.

Like there's you're, you're working on some other document or something like that.

And yeah, yeah. You know, but the thing is like you're doing something work related, but not related to the call you're on. Right.

And for those kinds of things, yeah, it's still like your brain at most is like listening for your name, you know?

And it's like, okay, if someone says something that is my name or something directly related to me, then I'll sort of tune in.

But, you know, it is absolutely routine at this point for like, at least on calls I'm on and it's happened to me.

I'll admit it's happened to me myself, but it's routine for other people as well, where some, something comes up and then the person who's just been mentioned is like, oh, I'm sorry.

I was multitasking. What was that? You know?

Ivan:
[12:13]
Oh, well, no, no, no, nobody. You know, we were talking about that.

Most people don't admit to that.

Sam:
[12:18]
They, like people routinely admit to that where I am.

Ivan:
[12:21]
Oh yeah. No, no, no. Over here, you know, we're trying to cover it up.

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I was on mute.

No, no. I was with something, whatever. ever. And the fact that, you know, we're talking about that almost everybody's with their cameras off.

Right. So you don't even, you know, you don't even have a clue as to who the hell is there.

Sam:
[12:40]
The other kind of multitasking is you're not even doing anything work related at all.

You're like doing the dishes, you're doing the laundry, you're, you're, you've got the, you got the TV on with a show, you know, all the, you could be doing all kinds of other stuff.

I think that's, I think most people aren't doing that quite that obviously, but at the same time, if I'm in a boring meeting that is not covering at the moment, something that's directly relevant to me, will I have like, will I be looking at news at the same time? Yeah. Yeah.

Ivan:
[13:15]
I probably, well, I mean, I have the news on all the time.

I mean, but that's not, I don't know if that counts. because it's not like I'm...

I don't even have the volume turned up or something. I mean, I'm just...

Sam:
[13:25]
Well, I mean, like, even, like, looking at text news, like, you know, looking at Mastodon or looking at some... reading some article, you know, that kind of stuff.

Ivan:
[13:35]
Well, I think the thing is that I...

You know noticed is it's just what somebody had mentioned this call where they were supposed to be reviewing like certain customers okay and there was like 20 plus people on the phone and it's like 90 of them didn't have their cameras on and it's just you know and that's the thing i'm like is anybody fucking paying attention to this damn thing i will say that the calls that i get more more distracted by.

And I mean, just that I'm not focused on are the damn webinars.

You know, they go and they have these product webinars many times.

And I, and I have to admit that usually I'll put on the webinar, but I, I probably will do some other work. Okay.

And, and it's many times. The thing is that some of the explainers are just, just i don't know how to not very engaging and so it's just they're trying to tell me well we just tweak product x and we added you know a bow tie to it and i'm like okay well well you know look that's great i was reading i mean don't get me wrong i i know that they're doing all these tweaks and stuff for this or whatever but it's just you know in a day where i'm like i've got so many i i I, in my role specifically, I, I keep getting bombarded by customer requests. Okay.

Sam:
[15:06]
Okay.

Ivan:
[15:07]
I mean, I, I mean, I get customers through, I mean, I, if I don't answer an email, I'm getting called on the phone.

I'm getting, you know, I'm getting texted on the phone.

It's just, there's always a bombardment from, from customers that need something like now. Okay.

And so to me, sometimes at these webinars, I try to attend, but you know, when I've got, But, you know, you do an hour, two hour, three hour webinar and I'm getting bombarded by customer requests, you know, and these are people that are trying to put money in the company's pockets.

And I'm just like, you know, look, I got to, I got to, I got to, I got to respond to the customers, you know what I'm saying?

And so, so that, that, that, that's my thing. I mean, on my end, it's, it's really very customer because we're facing usually the most of the four that now, most of the calls that I have that are more like where I need to participate are just sales forecast calls.

And so usually I'm pretty engaged because if I'm on the call, I usually will update my information on the sales forecast prior to the call, but I'll probably be reviewing again, just to make sure, you know, you know, where we are and whatnot, and they're going through, through the deal.

So when they're, you know, they're calling, you know, whenever it comes to my turn, I mean, I know they call because they call my, my name or a customer name or whatever.

So, you know, what I'm multitasking is not distracting from what's going on in the call at all. Yeah.

Sam:
[16:31]
Okay.

Ivan:
[16:31]
Because it's really me, you know, working, you know, more on what, what the subject matter we're discussing.

So I, I do that a lot, but for the most part, I would say, because, and, and thankfully for the most part, those are the conference calls I've got.

Sam:
[16:45]
They're really look, look, look, look. Here's the, here's the thing.

And I was actually just reading an article about this within the last week or two.

I was probably reading it while I was at a meeting. I don't know, like probably, but you know, it, it talked about people complaining about this corporate multitasking and people doing other things while they're on these calls.

And there are two points that they made that I thought were, were very salient.

One was if you really have the times where this mostly happened, not exclusively, but the times where this happened the most was where it is sort of these large status meetings where you have a whole bunch of people giving their status, a quarterly business review, a status meeting.

Ivan:
[17:29]
Yeah.

Sam:
[17:30]
Whatever these kinds of things where most Most of the time, what is being discussed is not relevant to the individuals.

And so they're like...

They're trying to actually retain some productivity by doing something that's actually useful as opposed to just wasting time on the call.

And they pointed out, first of all, this is not a problem of the user that's multitasking.

This is a problem of the people who set up the meeting.

Ivan:
[18:00]
Who structure the call.

Sam:
[18:02]
How are they determining who really needs to be there and how they need to present and what is the utility of this call? all.

And because there are a lot of these where like, it's really about like, you know, maybe you are giving information upward to the person who's to the one manager or whatever, who's listening, but you're wasting everybody else's time.

And could you structure this in a way that that person could get the information from everybody else without putting like 30 people in a room where where each one of them only has like one or two minutes worth of stuff to say.

And it's not really a discussion or a, you know, something where something useful is going to come out of people interacting with each other.

Now, sometimes you do have meetings where something interesting is going to come out of the people interacting with it.

But most of the time where we're talking about this kind of, Hey, somebody's tuned out and trying to multitask is because of this kind of scenario.

And you can fix that by better, uh.

Meeting planning like you like do you really need to have this meeting or is there a better way to achieve what you're trying to do here and then also they made the point of like a lot of these people and this is this is not my personal situation right now but in a lot of places you are so overloading these people anyway and they've got all kinds of crap to do that they're like the only way i'll get this shit done without like having to go home really really late is if i I take advantage of these moments during these meetings.

So like, yeah, I could sit here and just try to pay attention to the meeting.

But then that means this other stuff I have to get done.

I'm going to have to do after five o'clock when I'd rather be back with my family. Right.

And, and, and, you know, you're sort of balancing these things off.

And, but I think a lot of it comes down not to, oh my God, look at these lazy, stupid stupid people who are multitasking and not paying attention to the meeting.

But like, how are you really structuring the meeting and the work that these people are doing that forces them to do this this way?

Ivan:
[20:17]
Well, I mean, it's, I think that you're right.

I mean, I think a big problem is the structure because I, I think that, yeah, if you broke them up into, you know, So if these people don't need to be listening to everybody else's report, I mean, unless everybody else is also gaining from listening to what's going on.

Sam:
[20:45]
Right.

Ivan:
[20:45]
Yeah, and those happen all the time.

And there are places that have wall-to-wall meetings and calls. Okay.

I mean, I know that I, you know, I usually, I don't know if I have a decent number of them, but I am not scheduled wall to wall.

And I do that intentionally in large part because otherwise I wouldn't be able to get, I have to get stuff done to prepare for something at a customer, whether it's a proposal, whether it's a quote, whether it's something.

Thing i mean you know i gotta press i i need to be able to have work you know work time yeah and and but man but i see people that schedule their calendars wall to wall like you know with meetings and things and stuff and i'm like well when the fuck are you actually gonna get any shit done if you're scheduled like that it's crazy and they're certainly exhausting there's certainly people whose jobs are the meetings, period, end of story. Well, yeah, I've seen those.

Sam:
[21:53]
But if you have... If you're...

If you also have things that you have to deliver individually, you can't have 100% meetings and still get anything done.

Unless like, like I said, in some cases people are like, you know, Hey, the day is for meetings and then I have to go home and have my second work day when I actually get shit done after everybody is not bothering me anymore.

Ivan:
[22:21]
Well, it's kind of like teachers for God's sakes, you know, look, I mean, teachers are are the ones that are probably burdened with this the most where they actually have to be teaching all fucking day and there is no time built into that teaching day for them to do any of the shit that they need to do to prepare for the class itself and so they wind up going home and working late hours preparing shit you know for for class i think that is generally true i've I've on this show, I've actually complained before that in our school district, like school lets out early on Fridays.

Sam:
[22:58]
But the reason for that is to give teachers time to do some of the stuff you're talking about.

Probably not enough, but at least that's better than many other places.

But it's yeah, but it's a step in that direction, you know.

So, yeah, no, you're you're absolutely right. Right.

I mean, teachers are well known for having to do all kinds of work that is not on the clock that they are theoretically paid for nights and weekends, not to mention like paying for their own damn school supplies and stuff that they bring into the classroom and all that kind of stuff, which is also ridiculous.

But we're getting a little far afield.

Ivan:
[23:36]
Well, no, but no, it goes back to what I was saying.

Well, this goes back to work time and And how we interact and what we do.

You know, a number of the people there definitely miss the fact that we don't have an office at all.

Not that they want to be at the office all the time.

But that being at home all the time, 100%, is just not great.

Okay? I will say that I agree. I have said I agree with that.

I mean, I would like to be able to...

I would like to be able to see them a little bit more often than once a year.

Sam:
[24:15]
Well, you know, I've said the mix that I think is appropriate.

First of all, I think choice is really important there and giving people options.

Because depending on people's family situation, home situation, personal preferences on all kinds of other things, the right work environment can be very different.

Ivan:
[24:38]
Well, that came up.

Sam:
[24:39]
We're actually number, but then I, then I also wanted to say, in addition to the flexibility on an individual, like, Hey, if you love the office environment, by all means go in as much as you want.

If you are really more productive at home, stay home as much as you want.

But the key also being that having the office to have get togethers, when it makes sense, when there is is a purpose when there is a meeting that you really are going to benefit from all being in the same place and writing on the whiteboard and all that kind of collaboration stuff people talk about, then by all means do it, you know, but what drives me nuts is the, you know, you have to come in to come in when there's no actual, you know, result that's coming out of that, that's benefiting seemingly anybody.

And there's a lot of that going on right now. and I won't bitch too much about my own personal situation, but the way that people are being arbitrary about it rather than leaning into flexibility, I think is a big mistake.

Ivan:
[25:46]
Well, I know. I think that that's a big issue.

But, well, I will say another thing, which I think some people like, It makes a big difference whether you have kids or you don't.

Sam:
[26:04]
Yes, that is true.

Ivan:
[26:05]
Okay. And it's like I was seeing this, somebody making fun of, you know, how you get ready to work if you're working from home.

You know, we just talked about, you know, people like basically not even, you know, shower or whatever. It's just, and pop.

Sam:
[26:28]
Oh, I've, I've mentioned before when we were a hundred percent work from home, my routine was wake up five minutes before the first meeting, roll into the room, open the laptop and go.

Ivan:
[26:40]
Right. And so, and so that would be when, you know, yeah.

And, and how, you know, people go to work.

If you're going and commuting, it takes several more hours and it's like, oh, but, but here, but here's the problem.

Them that if you have a child yeah that needs to go to school that's bullshit because i that i cannot i that that doesn't exist anymore i gotta still get the fuck up very early i gotta get this kid yeah i was describing summertime but yeah it's entirely different during the school year yeah oh and listen believe me when it is when it is school break it feels like a break for me me i mean it totally feels like a big break for me i mean because i'm like oh i can sleep in a little bit yep i mean jesus i don't have to be up i mean that it's you know when you have kids you know and you have to drop them off and pick them up you know you have to coordinate that with your with your spouse if you have a spouse that you can coordinate that with you know some people don't, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, it's exhausting, man.

Sam:
[27:51]
Well, the, the other thing that kids is a part of, but not the whole picture is just what part of your life you're in.

Like I've heard a lot of people like, yeah, pre kids, but also pre significant relationship, like single young people in their twenties, you know, work is still a significant part of people's social lives.

Right. And, you know, they, they want the going in and sort of making friends with your coworkers and doing stuff after work with your coworkers and all of this kind of stuff, the, the sort of traditional, Hey, it's Friday afternoon.

Let's all, let's all go to happy hour together kind of stuff, you know, and, and, and that is much more difficult in these scenarios.

And so you've, you've heard, there were, there were, there were people talking a few weeks I think there were some articles about it too, about, especially in the U S less so in other countries, but especially in the U S there's been a significant decline in what people call the third place, like someplace other than home and work where people go and socialize together. together.

There's been a significant decline in sort of, hey, let's go to the bar after work kind of stuff.

There's been a significant decline in places like churches and things as well in most parts of the country, not all.

And just in general, depriving that sort of third place where people were able to meet in a non-work environment and that causing all kinds of stress for people who don't have that now.

And I think that affects people who are younger and more single a lot more like, and, and, you know, I, I'm antisocial anyway.

Right. But like, but for, for folks who have established families, you know, you go home to the kids, you go home to the wife, the husband, whatever.

There's less of a demand for that third place.

But I think even in those situations, people have said, hey, look, it's still healthy to have people other than work and other than your family that you socialize with.

Ivan:
[30:15]
Well, the one thing is I just saw this chart recently that showed that, you know, like right now in the last 20 years, the evolution of dating where, I mean, it went from, you know, mostly like meeting in places and work or whatever or whatnot for people to find dates.

And that right now it is so dominated by online dating.

Sam:
[30:44]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[30:45]
It is, it is completely, I mean, it completely, completely just, just dominates it.

I mean, it's just almost everybody now just that is looking to date is, is, is, is, is doing that.

Sam:
[30:59]
Yep. Using the apps.

Ivan:
[31:01]
Yep.

Sam:
[31:02]
Cause, cause like you're, you're highly discouraged from that kind of thing at work.

I mean, it still happens obviously, but like with, with everything that's come up about workplace harassment and all this kind of thing.

Right, right, right. it's discouraged you you should not be you know doing stuff at work if you could avoid it right and then you know if you're young and single you know who you got at home right maybe you have a couple roommates but like you know so where and with that third place declining like we were talking about yeah um where else you're gonna go you're gonna write apps yeah so anyway okay with With all of that, can we move on to mine?

Ivan:
[31:42]
Yes.

Sam:
[31:42]
Okay. So, movie time.

Ivan:
[31:45]
Ah, movies.

Sam:
[31:46]
Movie time. Movie time. We're singing again.

Ivan:
[31:49]
Movie time. Movie time. Da-da-da-da.

Sam:
[31:53]
This is from May. May 12th of this year. I watched Dr. Strangelove. Oh.

Ivan:
[32:00]
I mean, you've watched it before. Not for the first time. Yeah, right.

Sam:
[32:03]
Okay. You know, now, it had been probably a couple decades. It had been a long time.

Ivan:
[32:09]
I've watched it in the last decade. I have watched it again. Yes.

Sam:
[32:13]
Okay. Well, good for you. So you can have an opinion here, too.

Yeah. So for, yeah, I'm sure everyone knows Dr. Strangelove, famous movie from 1964.

Stanley Kubrick directed.

Ivan:
[32:27]
Kubrick? Kubrick? Is that a Kubrick?

Sam:
[32:29]
Kubrick okay fine brick brick kubrick you are correct okay okay i'm like i was like he's kubrick like you know what you getting on me you know it's close enough come on all right it's just okay mr boo anyway well and that was you know we found out correct pronunciation yes yes yes the fastest anyway it had peter sellers george scott slim pickens but a bunch of people it's a cold war comedy thing the subtitle is how i learned to stop worrying and love the bomb basically and and spoilers here for anybody who has waited what what, 60 years? 59 years.

For someone who has not seen this in the last 59 years, spoilers coming up.

Anyway, this one...

General goes crazy, starts trying to take over the U.S. nuclear forces, setting up a confrontation with the Soviet Union.

Ivan:
[33:40]
Well, I mean, he dispatches a wing of strategic bombers.

Sam:
[33:44]
He dispatches a wing of strategic bombers. And meanwhile, on the domestic front, the rest of the U.S.

Armed forces are trying to get to him and take back control of this base so that they can recall the stuff.

There's a whole bunch of stuff that happens and then eventually they succeed in recalling all but one plane right and so the the one plane had its radio damaged or something like that and so it goes ahead and gets through not to its intended target but to a secondary target and you know there was a whole thing where they were cooperating with the russians to try to shoot it down but it It got passed anyway. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, it drops the bomb. And of course this triggers an all out nuclear war, despite the fact that the, the, the, the two sides were communicating and blah, blah, blah.

Ivan:
[34:38]
And there was a whole thing about the doomsday machine too.

Sam:
[34:43]
Yes. There was a doomsday machine that was going to like blow up the whole planet.

And yeah, so, and, and, you know, it, it ends with a few of the, the leaders, you know, heading down to like an underground shelter thing to have a few hundred people who would survive or whatever.

And of course it has an iconic scene of the, the captain of the one bomber that gets through riding the bomb down before it blows up. That's the basic plot.

Peter Sellers plays a whole bunch of different roles actually in the movie, not just one.

And it's, it's, it's one, all kinds kinds of Yvonne's playing out the thing where he's trying to slap down his arm from right because avoiding the Nazi salute Nazi salute it got a whole bunch of reward rewards awards um I watched it because it was on that AFI film list best films of the first hundred years what is it the number on on it what number is okay god yeah you're gonna make me if you're gonna refer it on I know No, okay, it was 26th in the list of movies in 1998, and in the 2007 edition, it dropped to 39th, but I am going by the 1998 list that I'm still working my way through. I started in 1998.

It also received a bunch of Academy Award nominations. It didn't.

Got a BAFTA, got a Hugo, got a bunch of awards.

Somebody ranked it as one of the three or four funniest comedy movies of all time, etc.

And look, you know, I laughed. It was funny.

It was good. I am giving it a thumbs up because it's a classic and everybody should see it at least once.

But I must admit, like, I'm not sure I would put it on like my top X list.

You know really yeah i mean it was it was fine it was good i don't i'm not saying it's not good i'm giving it a thumbs up but like if if i personally had to be like give me the list of like the 10 movies you would most want to re-watch or something this would not be on it.

Shit okay well it would be for me i now admittedly even on that top whatever list it was like 20 something so they're not putting it on their top down either but you know no but it's a top 100 hundred and like yeah from movie history i mean a lot of you know it's got a lot you know it's a lot of stiff competition it's a yes it's definitely a very important movie it's a lot of stiff competition in there as well i mean but i and you know i will say that for my because of my i guess maybe my intense attention that i paid to that period and those topics i i to me it's a a top 10 flick.

Ivan:
[37:46]
Definitely, because I think it, It made fun of a lot of the different attitudes and things that were happening back then in terms of the war.

But it also provided some real realistic. I mean, there was some realistic stuff about it.

I mean, I, you know, there was another movie from that time period that basically was a take on on on on on like what the subject of the of of this movie was.

Was but for a more serious well from from making it a serious flick which was fail safe yeah which that one is with henry fonda okay it's got larry hagman henry fonda it's oh my god what's the other the other guy walter mathau it's got a really start studded cast but it's a very serious film that one okay unlike unlike this one that is basically a take on the same thing except there is quite a lot of comedic themes inserted into into it as well which is just you know i mean yes.

So i you know i i think it's i i say it's i i think it's a top 10 okay okay for me i i think that it took when we're talking about the year that it was 1964 and how they were able to pull that movie together in the middle of what were what was a very tense time yeah between russia and the united states and depicted it that way i just you know i think they did a really good job So I put it in my top 10.

Sam:
[39:39]
Yeah, like I said, I give it the thumbs up.

But like just and it certainly has the historical significance and it's a classic and it's all that kind of stuff.

But like I wasn't blown away watching it, rewatching it this year.

You know, it's just sort of like, OK, yeah, that's good. It's fine.

Ivan:
[40:01]
I will say, the first time I watched it, I have to admit, I had not watched it, I did not watch it because, oh, look, there's this movie. Let's watch it.

I watched it at at Carnegie Mellon for the first time, and it was an assigned movie for a class that I was taking.

Sam:
[40:27]
Of all things, did I watch it with you?

Ivan:
[40:32]
I don't think so. No, I don't think you were in that class. Okay.

Maybe and now i'm like i i'm not sure so maybe maybe yeah who knows it was a long time ago, yeah but but but yeah it was a long time ago so yeah but it was assigned for me in a class, and that's how i wound up watching it for the first time and i i don't know i wound up being fascinated by it when i watched it for the first time and i and and i watched it recently and i I liked it still very much so, therefore.

Sam:
[41:04]
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Now, the one other thing I'll say that I've been meaning to say the next time I mentioned one of these AFI Top 100 movie things on the show is that the last time I was sort of noting down what I'd watched and updating the lists where I keep track of them and stuff, I went back and looked at the AFI Top 100 movies.

And something really disturbed me about it.

Ivan:
[41:33]
Which is?

Sam:
[41:34]
Which is, remember, the list came out in 1998, and I started at number 100, working my way up in 1998.

1998 is now 25 years ago, right? Yeah.

Ivan:
[41:47]
Yeah.

Sam:
[41:48]
I started looking at the list from number 100 and realizing there are items on that list that I have no memory of watching.

Ivan:
[41:56]
Well, that actually.

Sam:
[41:58]
I mean i know it was 25 years ago but i'm like i have no idea what the hell was going on with this i i remember some of them i remember some of them but well it's a lot of movies i mean look i you know it's a lot of their movies especially if it wasn't particularly memorable right well supposedly these are all really really good right and so they should be memorable you'd think but But well, well, but, but, you know, it's all, you know, it's a judgment call.

Ivan:
[42:26]
I mean, what's memorable, you know? So I know.

Sam:
[42:29]
So like, I, I'm looking like the number 100 was Yankee Doodle Dandy.

Ivan:
[42:34]
Yankee Doodle Dandy.

Sam:
[42:36]
I have no memory of it. Whatever. 99 was guest who, guess who's coming to dinner.

I remember that one. Okay.

Number 98 was unforgiven. I remember that.

98 98 was bringing up baby no memory of that whatsoever i don't watch it i don't remember i don't know number 96 the searchers vaguely rings a bell but no i don't think so no idea you know etc 96 was pulp fiction okay i remember okay yeah 95 was pulp fiction sorry number 94 was good goodfellas and i if you had asked me have i seen goodfellas i swear i would i would tell you right now no i've never seen goodfellas but apparently i did and just don't remember it you know it and 93 the apartment no idea no idea at all oh i thought i remember seeing that one yes okay 92 a place in the sun no idea no memory number 91 my fair lady i know of that movie but I don't remember actually watching it.

Ivan:
[43:42]
I think I watched it, but I don't, I can't say what the, you know, et cetera.

Sam:
[43:48]
Number 90. And I won't go any further than this was the jazz singer, which I've heard of. I know of, but I don't remember watching it.

Ivan:
[43:55]
That was the Neil diamond one jazz singer, right?

Sam:
[43:59]
No, no, this was 1927. Oh, that's the original 19. Oh, it's like the first talking movie or something.

Ivan:
[44:06]
Oh, oh, okay. So the Neil diamond was a remake. Okay. All right.

Sam:
[44:10]
But anyway, yeah, like the point of these is like, I know because I've been doing this systematic 100 working my way up thing that I have indeed seen all of these, but a whole bunch of them I have like zero memory, zero, none.

None. I do not remember having seen it. And I'm like, well, that sucks.

You know? So, anyway.

Okay. Shall we take a break and then move on to a more serious topic?

Ivan:
[44:41]
Yeah, because we've burned up a lot of time already.

Sam:
[44:46]
But you know, it was really important to discuss the people multitasking during meetings.

Ivan:
[44:51]
I agree.

Sam:
[44:52]
Yeah. And old Cold War War comedy films.

Ivan:
[44:56]
Oh, cool. War comedy films are always at the top of my list of things that I need to take care of during the week.

Sam:
[45:03]
Exactly. Okay. We are going to take a break and we will be back after this.

And I'm not even going to try to hit the button. Well, I guess I can try.

Of course I hit the wrong one, but oh well. It'll do.

Ivan:
[45:55]
It'll do. Works for me.

Sam:
[45:56]
It was not the one I had randomly selected. I clicked a different one. Oh well.

That's fine. So Yvonne, it's your turn to pick our first more serious topic.

We didn't have a really big list this time. I mean, things are kind of slow running up to the holiday.

Well, I mean, there are a few big things.

Ivan:
[46:19]
Sometimes we have a list of like 20 things we've only there were only yeah there's five five new items added to our potential topics well okay well i don't see i guess we didn't write it down but hey rudy you filed for bankruptcy yeah we didn't write that down because we sort of talked about rudy last week but okay talk about the bankruptcy like he he had the he had the judgment against him last week and we talked about it then but now he's trying to get out of paying well what happened is that in some other cases like this, especially if you have effective counsel and if you you try to part you know the one thing that rudy did in this trial was he he was kind of like he was at the proceeding right he was represented by counsel but he wasn't being cooperative with the process oh no not at all not at all and i think that that's the reason why he wound up in a situation where because he was being a dick about the whole thing on top of the fact that he did this to these people, In many other cases, if they're going to appeal, they don't make them pay.

Put up the money immediately. Sometimes in some of these judgments, they do make people put the money up in S.

Sam:
[47:51]
Well, cause, cause you expect that there's going to be an appeal.

He's going to go through the whole process. And, and in, in this case, as you know, as is not super uncommon in like these big cases, the amount that they, the amount of the judgment was way more than the guy's worth, you know?

Ivan:
[48:11]
So there's, there's always going to be some sort of, you know, negotiations on how he actually pays and what he actually pays because he's just in his case like what the judgment was 148 million dollars yeah close to 100 plus 130, no it was 100 let me see how much it was i believe it was like 140 well i don't know because i don't i don't think rudy only had like four or five million that's i think he had like 20 because just his legal fees alone that there was several right now i'm talking the judgment itself the new judgment was 148 million.

Sam:
[48:48]
He's got other things he owes on top of that, including other legal judgments.

Interestingly enough, I was looking, one report was pointing out that one of the people he owes money to is actually Hunter Biden, based on a previous lawsuit that Hunter won against him.

But the point is, however many hundreds of millions it is- Well, yeah, 148.

Ivan:
[49:10]
He only filed like, what the heck was it? We were actually debating the amount amount of debt that he that he and he filed it was 150 something million um yeah so under the point is two regardless three million he's three million into red okay aside from so he's claiming his net worth right now is a negative three million.

Sam:
[49:33]
Only negative 3 million. Is that.

Ivan:
[49:35]
Cause I, I thought without the judgment, I mean, Oh, without the judgment.

Sam:
[49:40]
Okay. Yeah. Like, yes, the, the, the references to how much he has before you even start taking away all the stuff he owes is only like 10 or 20 million at the most.

And that includes a lot of things that are already encumbered.

Um, so anyway, he, he, you know, yeah, one way or another, he's screwed.

They, they know they're not going to be able to get a whole $148 million out of him because he just doesn't have it.

But so now goes all the back and forth to try to figure out what he actually does give.

And I think you mentioned, before he declared bankruptcy or put into paperwork for bankruptcy, he was already, the judge had said, no, you got to start paying now.

Ivan:
[50:27]
We're not going gonna wait yeah and and one of the things is the the judge said wrote that giuliani would not be given the typical 30 days out of concern that the former new york mayor would conceal his assets, and and i i based on his behavior duh um you know so far it's you know yeah so one of the things they start doing with this right is if you've got that judgment you will grab the marshals and you will start seizing shit left and right freeze bank accounts go find his real estate you know lock it up seize it i mean this is you know yeah i mean this is you've got that judgment they're gonna go out they're gonna start grabbing every damn thing he's got okay to force a payment which is why he filed for the bankruptcy but one thing is that look the bankruptcy may give him some structure like right now behind that but it's really not going to stop they can't discharge the debt that's not dischargeable you can't you can't get away from that you may be able to now because he's got this judgment get some other debts maybe to go away but this is not going away.

And, you know, I think that's the that's his problem, like right now.

And, you know, they they've got him in a bind, you know, and we're all here cheering for it.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Sam:
[52:04]
I mean, fucking bastard.

Ivan:
[52:05]
Jesus Christ.

Sam:
[52:07]
Rudy's dug his own grave. Yeah.

Ivan:
[52:08]
No, it's nobody shedding a tear for this bastard.

Not even i i think not even republican people anyway i mean nobody you know nobody is shedding a tear for this guy i mean donald's certainly not helping him out at this point he's like he didn't pardon him he didn't he didn't pay he i we know he billed him he didn't pay him a dime, you know he just completely just you know said screw you well and one of the things here is like Like, you know, they're going after him again because he's continued to lie about these poll workers after this trial judgment was over.

Sam:
[52:48]
And so they're going after him again, not this time, not for more money, but against for an injunction to make him stop, you know.

But at this point, it's also like given all that you've talked about, given that, like, you know, Trump's not like supporting him.

Him he seems to have lost you know all kinds of stuff it's like but he's still doubling down on it he's not it doesn't appear that he's like flipping and and and providing evidence to other people he's not saying oh i was wrong none of this stuff his lawyer his lawyer seemed like one of the recent times that he was in court the lawyer was kind of like what the fuck do i do with this client I'm like, shit, you know, because it's just not.

Not helping anything at all for his own sake yeah nothing and this honestly it does make you wonder about his mental state you know yes like he he does appear to believe this stuff and not be able to let it go and you know and it's one thing look i i'm not feeling sorry for him just to be clear But there is a difference between the people who sort of know they're being manipulative and lying and trying to get a result and just being, you know, amoral about the process that they use to get what they want versus someone who is actually so deluded that they believe this stuff.

Ivan:
[54:29]
Well i do think he's complete a moral prick the fact that right now he has been saying so much bullshit that he now believes it okay right is doesn't make me you know doesn't make me take any, empathy towards him on this because he i i know that bastard even if his mental health now has deteriorated to the point he's believing his own bullshit at some point the last couple of years knew that what he was saying was complete shit it was told flat out by a lot of people around him it was complete bullshit on multiple occasions yeah and so you know that's fucking i'm just and meanwhile you know he's got all this other stuff going on he's got the legal stuff in atlanta as as well, but he's got like former employees going after him for sexual harassment and all this stuff.

Like this is, he's a terrible person.

Sam:
[55:33]
Yes.

Ivan:
[55:34]
He's an awful human being.

Sam:
[55:36]
Yvonne, he's America's mayor.

Ivan:
[55:39]
America's mayor. How the fuck did this guy wound up being for some brief time?

America's fucking mayor. It's just, it's just, I'm just still in disbelief.

Yeah anything else you want to slam rudy about, no we well i can say farewell and say fuck you rudy you just go fucking, say fuck you rudy yeah so now he's broke maybe by the time this is done he'll be in jail too we'll see that would be the perfect epitaph to this guy's career yes broken in jail perfect and yes, yes oh may it be a good warning for every other douchebag that tries to do this again.

Sam:
[56:33]
Okay with that let's move to my turn and of course i always have to yeah i'll i'll be the one, you're what are you gonna do it's gonna be the trump stuff we got two major trump things one of them i think is uh well we'll see uh let's do the one i think will be shorter first but they're They're both. Okay. Okay.

Right before we came on to record today, well, a few hours before, SCOTUS came back and said they will not expedite the review of Trump's immunity claims. Okay.

And this is, you know, even last week when we were talking about it, Yvonne, we said that the fact that SCOTUS very, very quickly said, yes, we have received your thing. Now we want Trump's opinion on it and blah, blah, blah.

Indicated that they were moving really quickly, which sort of seemed like, oh, okay.

Ivan:
[57:31]
They do want to look. Yeah.

Sam:
[57:33]
Yeah. Cause it took them only four hours for the initial response to Jack Smith.

They did not have to answer in four hours. They could have taken their time on that.

Yep. But four hours later, they were like, we want to, we're going to consider the request to look at this early, you know?

Oh, and so they asked Donald Trump, Donald Trump answered when at his deadline, uh, they gave him like a week and, but then SCOTUS came back with a single sentence response.

Saying, nope, we're, we're not going to look at it early. Let it play through the regular process basically.

And so there has been a lot of speculation on what the hell this actually means, what what the impacts of it are.

And they have run the gambit like from people saying, Oh, no big deal.

They, they probably did this because the circuit court has actually put in very aggressive deadlines.

And it looks like they're going to look at this very quickly. Right.

And it probably is only going to mean like maybe a couple of weeks delay at most.

I mean, everybody sort of expects it'll, it'll, it'll hit the circuit court.

Donald Trump will lose, and then it'll end up back at SCOTUS.

And so they're like, eh, you know, a few extra weeks, it's not a big deal.

To other people saying, well, actually...

Assuming Donald Trump loses at the circuit, they can still ask for an in-bank hearing and that can be delayed.

And then they have another 90 days to appeal to SCOTUS and they have all of these things that can be used to stretch out.

And this will be many, many, many months of delay.

And then if SCOTUS is in the mood for delay, once they receive it, they can decide not to expedite it and put it on their regular calendar and kaboom, we're like, we're way out at the end of the year or beyond.

And I've heard everything in between. So I honestly am not sure what to think.

Oh, and by the way, just to say, this was one sentence unsigned.

So there was no vote total recorded.

There were no dissents recorded, nothing like that, which I've even on that.

Some people say, well, that means we don't know what the vote means.

Other people have said, well, if there were people against, they would have put in dissent. So we, this probably means it was actually unanimous.

So we'll see. I don't know. I don't know.

Ivan:
[1:00:13]
I think my just gut feel is that they took the request quickly, and then they all looked at it's like a hot potato.

Sam:
[1:00:26]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:00:26]
And maybe they all just quickly realized, look, the best scenario, I think that if I'm SCOTUS.

Sam:
[1:00:39]
I think what you're about to say is what I've heard most often today is like, look, let me just let it go through the process.

Ivan:
[1:00:49]
And you know what? If we're okay with the decision, let's just, okay, we don't do anything.

It's fine. But we're not the ones that did it.

Let it go through the process, and we can decide that we just decline.

Sam:
[1:01:06]
Not to take the case.

Ivan:
[1:01:07]
Not to take the case at that point, or we do, but let's just let it run through the process.

And then that way, if we don't want to deal with it, because I think that there is a big incentive, they really, I think, would rather not be here.

Sam:
[1:01:22]
Especially since they got this other thing with the 14th Amendment coming at them as well, which we'll talk about in a second.

Ivan:
[1:01:28]
Exactly. They're just like, let's just, you know, if we can wash our hands of it, by all means.

Sam:
[1:01:36]
Yeah. And like I said, I've heard all over the place today since this came out, but the one that I think I've heard from the most people lines up with what you've said.

It basically says SCOTUS is sure that the lower court is going to say no to Donald Trump because it's actually fairly clear in the law that he's wrong.

And the the lower court has scheduled a very quick set of hearings on this like the i think the hearing's january 9th or something like that it's coming up very fast there they've set an expedited timeline for this so scotus is sort of like okay let them do their thing because they are probably going to say no to donald trump and they're probably going to accompany it with a you you know, a 200 page well-researched document on all the reasons why.

And they have the power as well to, you know, there are these deadlines of like, you know, Hey, you know, Trump has 90 days to put in an appeal, all this kind of stuff. But, but, The lower court has the option of adjusting like what they stay or don't stay.

So they could say like, like right now, all of the trial proceedings are completely paused waiting for the results of this.

The appeals court could come in and say, no, Donald Trump, you're wrong.

We will put on a temporary stay on resuming the trial, but it expires in 10 days. if you don't appeal to the Supreme Court.

So that they sort of bypass the 90-day built-in delay and there's another 45-day delay somewhere else and blah, blah, blah.

And they could do that. And then the MBUNC is not automatic.

They can say no to that as well.

And then, as you said, SCOTUS themselves could say no. If they fundamentally are like, hey, the end result of this is we're going to agree with the lower court, they can say, And it doesn't even have to be the Supreme Court would be unanimous on that.

It's just if they know the result is going to be an agreement with the lower court, they could decide just to let it stand and not take the case.

Ivan:
[1:03:54]
Yep, exactly.

Sam:
[1:03:55]
And so that is possible. So like the end result of that is sort of in the middle between it's no big deal.

It's only delayed a couple of weeks versus, oh, my God, we're already delayed past the 2024 election. Right. Right.

It's, it's more like, Hey, this thing was scheduled to start in March.

Maybe it starts in May or June.

Ivan:
[1:04:21]
It's actually better.

Sam:
[1:04:24]
Closer to the election being better.

Ivan:
[1:04:26]
Yes, I think so.

Sam:
[1:04:27]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:04:29]
Yeah.

Sam:
[1:04:29]
Yeah. So we'll see. Of course, of course the, the right now the documents case in Florida is scheduled to start in May, and so there may be a conflict there.

There's all kinds of rattling around.

Ivan:
[1:04:43]
Oh, but Florida Judge will probably delay it again and again. I mean, you know.

Sam:
[1:04:48]
Although she just gave the go-ahead for them to start writing jury questionnaires and stuff like that. Wow.

So she's still at least pretending that May is going to happen.

Ivan:
[1:05:02]
Right.

Sam:
[1:05:03]
So we'll see. Okay. Okay, the other Trump stuff is the 14th Amendment.

We have talked about this before on the show a while ago.

There are all sorts of places saying that the Part 3 of the 14th Amendment, which basically says that people who have sworn an oath to the Constitution in the past and who have then engaged in...

Did I use? No, what was the word? It's not rebellion. What's the right word, Yvonne?

Ivan:
[1:05:35]
Isn't it treason?

Sam:
[1:05:36]
No, no. Insurrection.

Ivan:
[1:05:39]
Insurrection. Insurrection. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Sam:
[1:05:42]
You know.

Ivan:
[1:05:43]
Nobody damn words for that.

Sam:
[1:05:45]
I know. Anyway, it basically said those folks aren't eligible to hold any high office.

One of the issues is it doesn't specifically list president, et cetera.

And so this has been going through the courts in a whole bunch of states.

In almost every location, the first round of courts have said, no, we're not going to say that Trump is not eligible to go on the ballot. Trump is eligible.

We're going to say that. And each place has been different reasons.

Reasons like in in one state it was because hey this is a primary you know maybe this is a good argument in the general but it's not a good idea not in the prime but not in the primary because, it's the party's choosing who they want their candidate to be and that has we're not going to say anything about that the party can do what they want right right in this case the first line judge judge basically said after, and just to be clear, there were hearings on this where Trump was able to put on a case for why he didn't think he was engaged in insurrection and all this kind of stuff.

The judge determined that yes, Donald Trump did engage in insurrection and yes, that all of this This is true.

However, they said that because the president wasn't officially, wasn't one of the offices explicitly listed in the 14th Amendment, that it did not apply to a presidential race.

And so they weren't going to knock him out of this.

Upon appeal, what came up this time is the Colorado Supreme Court said that, yes, it does apply to the president. Donald Trump is not allowed on the ballot.

And so they basically said it would be wrong for us to allow someone on the ballot who is ineligible to actually serve in the office like we we'd talked on the show before about how theoretically you could say there's a difference here he may not be allowed to take office but he's allowed to run he's allowed to win he just can't actually take office on january 20th.

But in Colorado specifically, they said, based on the laws of Colorado, all this other kind of stuff, that they were not, if he's not eligible to be in office, he's not eligible to be on a ballot, either primary or general.

This was specifically about primary, but all the logic would apply to general election as well.

Right. And so the Trump folks said they will be appealing.

They said they won't actually submit the appeal until after Christmas.

So probably next week sometime. time.

The, the Colorado Supreme court specifically stayed their judgment until I believe January 4th, because January 5th is the day that they have to start like finalizing what's going to be on the ballots and stuff, you know, to get ready for their primary process.

So anyway, we'll see this, this thing will go up to the Supreme court to almost certainly, you know, So, like, Donald Trump will submit it.

The Supreme Court could theoretically decline to take the case.

But if they decline to take the case.

Ivan:
[1:09:06]
I mean, they're basically saying, well, that's the law.

Sam:
[1:09:11]
Well, here's the thing. Like, if they decline this case, you are potentially setting up a patchwork where Donald Trump is on the ballot on some states but not on others.

Ivan:
[1:09:23]
Right.

Sam:
[1:09:23]
Which could result in all kinds of chaotic scenarios.

You know, just to put it out there, like Donald Trump is not going to win Colorado.

Colorado at this place is a pretty blue state.

Ivan:
[1:09:36]
It's a blue state, but I will say Colorado has been competitive in, you know, in the past 20 years.

Now, I do think that you're right, that, you know, Colorado is not a state that would help him win.

Win. Okay. So it's true.

Sam:
[1:09:56]
Right now in the poll averages, Biden is ahead by 8% in Colorado in my election graphs, poll average.

The last time a Republican won in Colorado was 2004.

Ivan:
[1:10:07]
There you go.

Sam:
[1:10:08]
So 20 years ago.

Ivan:
[1:10:12]
Yeah.

Sam:
[1:10:12]
You know, so nobody expects Colorado to actually be in play this time.

However, if you start getting some judgments in purple states, you know, then that could immediately be a problem. But here's the thing.

Ivan:
[1:10:27]
Say we boot him off the ballot in Pennsylvania, for example.

Sam:
[1:10:31]
Yes.

Ivan:
[1:10:31]
And in other states like that, then he's, you know, his map to win then becomes incredibly difficult.

Sam:
[1:10:42]
Well, no, wait. His map to win outright right becomes difficult because remember, if they drop Trump off the ballot in like Pennsylvania, it's not like there won't be a Republican on that ballot.

They will put like whoever Trump's vice presidential candidate or whatever will be on the ballot in that state.

And so what you're doing is you're increasing the odds of ending up in a situation where there is no majority in the electoral college and it gets thrown into the house and then the house picks Donald Trump.

Ivan:
[1:11:11]
Well, but let's face it, if it's not Donald really on the ballot...

You know, it really makes it, because you think that they're going to be comfortable with a straw candidate.

Sam:
[1:11:30]
Yes. The way it would play out in that scenario where if the Supreme Court does not declare outright that Donald Trump is not eligible to be president, because that's a different scenario.

Area, if they just sort of let Colorado do its thing and say, let all the States can do whatever they want. We're not getting involved, whatever. Right.

Then you could have Trump on the ballot in some States and not on others, but in the ones where he's not on the ballot, they're not going to be, it's not going to be random people.

It's not going to be no Republican. It's going to be, you know, probably whoever Donald's vice president is.

And the Trump campaign will tell people in in that state, a vote for guy X, Mike Flynn or whoever is a vote for me.

And it'll, and, and so that'll, it's something weird will play out in that scenario, but this is what, this is what, wait, this is one of the reasons why SCOTUS probably will take this case.

Cause that, that is a very chaotic scenario that is, you know, now Biden could still win outright, but.

Ivan:
[1:12:37]
Well, okay, but say, for example, look at this scenario, right?

Sam:
[1:12:42]
Well, which, okay, so the Republicans have, like, right now, the new House, but by state delegations, not by individual House members.

Ivan:
[1:12:55]
Right, it's by state delegation.

Sam:
[1:12:58]
Which almost certainly would be a Republican majority. Right.

Unless something dramatic happened there, too.

Ivan:
[1:13:06]
Fuck. I mean, I don't have the states in front of me to be able to say that.

Sam:
[1:13:11]
Last time I saw a count, it was like Republicans had 27 or something like that of the state delegations.

Ivan:
[1:13:17]
So it was 23 to 27.

Sam:
[1:13:19]
Something like that. I don't have it. I'm trying to get that off the top of my head.

I have looked at it before. the republicans had a majority but it wasn't like 30 or 40 right you know but they did have a majority now and it is the new house so that could change but anyway i want to move on be past that scenario because i think it's one of the least likely scenarios, well what do you think is the most likely so here's what i think i think scotus is going to to take this case.

And then like most people seem to think that, Hey, this is a six, three conservative court.

There are no, there's no way they're going to bump Trump off the ballot.

This is also, you know, fundamentally like it's somewhat anti-democratic, like you're not letting the people decide.

And we'll talk about reasons why that's might be okay, but But there are a lot of undemocratic things in our election process.

Ivan:
[1:14:24]
Give me a fucking break.

Sam:
[1:14:26]
There sure are. There sure are.

But anyway, most people seem to think it'll just be a 6-3 party line vote, essentially, in SCOTUS.

I'm not so sure about that.

Ivan:
[1:14:38]
I don't know why anybody really thinks that.

I really think, for the most part, as we know, that we have heard so often that all these people that are in public supportive of Donald, In reality, when the microphones are off, they despise the man.

Sam:
[1:15:08]
Mm-hmm.

Ivan:
[1:15:09]
Okay? It's a uniform distaste for this guy across almost everybody that is in some kind of, you know, it is a vast majority of the people that are elected Republicans.

Sam:
[1:15:24]
Yep. Okay? And why would SCOTUS be any different?

Ivan:
[1:15:27]
And why exactly? Why would SCOTUS be any different? And oh, by the way, you know what?

Yeah. So we use, we use.

Sam:
[1:15:36]
He'll get Clarence Thomas.

Ivan:
[1:15:38]
Yeah, we'll get Thomas, you know, for example, in Alito. Sure.

You know, but the other people, I'm like, I'm not beholden to this prick.

I mean, I'm like, I'm going to listen. Hell, the last time that they brought all these fucking election cases that he thought were going to be a slam dunk.

SCOTUS is going to go for me. What happened?

Sam:
[1:16:00]
In he lost all of them all of them that here here's the thing though i could see two i could see both possible ways out of this one is sort of like you were saying like the originalist position like a lot of people have pointed out over the last few days that if if you theoretically do like the conservatives like to say they do and you're like what what does the original meaning of this amendment mean based on the, the history of when it was enacted and blah, blah, blah.

And they're like, well, damn, it says, if you were involved in an insurrection, you shouldn't be in office.

And we buy that the president is one of the officers and blah, blah, blah.

Right. And so you do end up with a seven to two or something that says we're going going to knock president Trump out of this election.

Cause like people have also said, look, this is specifically about primaries.

They could, it could just be about Colorado, but look, if they declare that Donald Trump is not eligible to be president, there's no way it stays with Colorado.

Right. You know, because they're, they're saying that even if he gets to participate in the election, when it comes to January 20th, he can't take office.

Ivan:
[1:17:18]
He can't take off.

Sam:
[1:17:19]
Right. Right.

Ivan:
[1:17:20]
Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Sam:
[1:17:22]
It just means his vice president will be president instead. Right.

But here's the thing. I can also see.

Ivan:
[1:17:29]
President Michael Flynn?

Sam:
[1:17:31]
Yes, or whatever. Oh, fuck. Jesus Christ.

I just keep bringing up Michael Flynn because I think he's a serious potential candidate for that.

Ivan:
[1:17:42]
I think he is a serious candidate to be his VP, yes.

Sam:
[1:17:46]
But obviously Donald Trump has not declared a VP yet. Right.

But here's the thing. There is another very serious argument that I actually, I actually feel like straight by the text of the 14th amendment and all that kind of stuff.

He should be unable to take office and unable to run and all of this kind of stuff.

And I think that, you know, technically it just says he can't take office, but I think it actually is perfectly reasonable not to let people who can't take office run and be on the ballot because that's just stupid.

Stupid it's like let it you know you're you're really going to let all the 12 year olds run that want to you know you shouldn't do that well some 12 year olds would clearly be better than donald trump but anyway yes anyway but i can i mean who would you trust with the presidency my son, or donald trump i mean i i'll i'll i'll i'll put my son at the presidency before i fucking There you go.

Ivan:
[1:18:46]
Fuck this. We'll be at Epcot.

Sam:
[1:18:49]
Anyway, there's also, though, a serious argument that does say, you know, hey, it really should be the people to decide.

And having the court step in and take someone who is clearly very popular in the country right now and just say, no, sorry, they can't run, would be a disservice to democracy.

And you could see even the liberal members of the court potentially saying, let's find a legalistic way out of this.

Let's say he hasn't had enough due process to prove that he was in an insurrection.

Or let's say that an officer does not include the president.

Or let's say any one of these things to sort of step back and say that, yes, but this doesn't apply in this scenario.

And just basically get out of this situation and say, look, this is a democracy that people should decide we shouldn't take somebody off the ballot.

And I could see that going that way too.

Like I'm not, I really, I'm not sure this is a six, three party line vote, but I'm not sure that, but I'm not sure that means that, oh yeah, they're going to throw Donald Trump off the ballot.

I actually think it's, I would be, it would.

I would actually be surprised if the Supreme Court throws Donald Trump off the ballot.

I think the most likely scenario, you asked me for my most likely scenario, is they use some sort of legalism with the process and say, because, you know, hey, really, Congress should have written implementing legislation to define how you declare that this applies to somebody. Right.

Ivan:
[1:20:43]
Right.

Sam:
[1:20:43]
And they didn't. And so you can't just have some judge in Colorado decide, yes, this was an insurrection and you need some sort of process.

And so it doesn't apply here. I think that's the most likely kind of outcome.

Ivan:
[1:20:55]
Well, but, but here's a problem. We had a process. We had the J six here.

Sam:
[1:21:02]
Well, no, the specific process in this case was there was a multi-day hearing took most of a week where the first judge in Colorado to hear this case had both sides present a case in terms of Donald Trump's behavior and did it count and blah, blah, blah.

Ivan:
[1:21:19]
No, no, no. But that's what I'm saying. But here's what I'm saying.

You had all that evidence that was gathered there that was from a process that was done in Congress.

Sam:
[1:21:27]
Yeah. And they did use that in the trial. Yes.

Ivan:
[1:21:29]
And you presented in the court and saying, hey, here was the process that showed that he engaged in the insurrection as described in the article of the constitution you know so yeah you you know you can't say that there wasn't a due process no well you could argue that it wasn't enough well it depends on what well okay you could argue it wasn't enough correct yes yes the point the point is that i think the most likely thing here for scotus is to find something like that right to use as the reason to reject it.

Sam:
[1:22:06]
They're not necessarily going to even touch whether or not it was an insurrection and whether or not Donald Trump participated in it.

They're going to talk about something in terms of the process, whether or not he's an officer of the government, all of this kind of stuff, and find some reason not to...

Just like you said, SCOTUS wants to not necessarily be the one to make the final decision on, does he have immunity?

They don't want to be the ones that make this decision either.

Ivan:
[1:22:40]
Oh yeah, I know.

Sam:
[1:22:41]
So they're going to try to find a way, like, you know, if we had a situation where SCOTUS is the one that kicks one of the two major party candidates off the ballot.

And says, nope, sorry, Donald, you can't run. Everyone is going to be, well, everyone.

That's a no-win scenario for them. You know, the MAGA folks are going to say, you jackasses were lecturing us about democracy and now you're doing this.

And there might be violence. And I could see SCOTUS being afraid of violence happening because they do this and blah, blah, blah.

So I, I, they're going to try to figure out a way out of it.

And honestly, like as much as the scenarios are interesting where Donald Trump just gets kicked off the ballot, cause then, then you can relax a little bit about the delay on the legal cases as well.

Cause the reason for the hurry is to not get into a scenario where he wins, becomes president and is able to make it all go away because he's president.

Them but you know it's i i if if they just took it away from like those are interesting scenarios but i feel like they're really dangerous scenarios whereas the the best way out of this is to let the man run and beat him but i also look at my election graph.com.

Ivan:
[1:24:18]
Right now and joe is not doing well right now and he really needs to get his ass in gear you know so of course you know yeah well we get the debate about that i said i i shared this this week this article from the new york times that was digging a lot deeper into these damn polls and why the hell about likely voters yeah and and and and it's the one thing about it is that you know which made me feel more comfortable about about this is what we've seen joe does a lot better unlikely it's not not just that he does that are unlikely voters.

So one thing is that we're where it seems that these polls are pulling him into, into the red is that voters that didn't vote in 2020 and that, that, that, that are for whatever reason, very pro pro Trump.

And my thing is that, look, if you fucking didn't vote in 2020, they are, if that election didn't motivate you to get to the fucking ballot.

Sam:
[1:25:17]
Then 2024 is not about to.

Ivan:
[1:25:20]
You're never in a billion years showing up in 2024.

Sam:
[1:25:24]
Well, unless you're really angry because they pulled Donald Trump off the ballot or threw him in jail, you know?

So I don't know. But I also think like, oh, okay.

In the scenarios where they do, do pull Donald Trump off the ballot, you know, I'm like, that takes a lot of motive, a lot of the motivation out of the room too.

Like if Nikki Haley is the, the, the candidate or or whatever then i'm like you know but but here's the other thing that i saw polls show yeah take both trump and biden off the ballot yes go generic democrat versus republican yeah the democrat wins right and so it's so this whole thing is so fucked up yes but i mean like if you imagine the race changes from biden trump to biden haley suddenly it seems a lot less urgent you know and haley would be she's an asshole but you know she would be horrible she would be horrible but she's it's it's just not the same as you know like yeah you're not going to get as mad about nicki haley as donald trump yeah right so like you you already have a whole bunch of democrats saying that they want to stay home, or sorry, a whole bunch of leftists saying that they want to stay home because, you know, Joe Biden is a fascist.

Ivan:
[1:26:49]
But here's the reality. That New York Times article, which was from The Tilt, also showed that engaged voters, okay, are not just, you know, the reason why the Democrats keep winning these special elections elections is because the democratic voters are far more engaged and active and going to vote, which is why these elections keep going the Democrats way in a very strong, in very strong.

Sam:
[1:27:24]
And this is one of the reasons why I keep saying that, like, when looking at these polls, it looks really, really bad for Joe.

If the polls are neutral or like the last two elections elections have underestimated Republicans.

But if they're more like, what was it, 2008?

Right. When they underestimated the Democrat, or was it 2012? I think it was 2012.

Ivan:
[1:27:48]
2012.

Sam:
[1:27:49]
In 2012, they underestimated the Democrat. If they're underestimating the Democrat, Biden's in okay shape.

Ivan:
[1:27:57]
Right.

Sam:
[1:27:57]
He's not as good as he could be, but he's in okay shape if the polls are underestimating him. Like right, right now, the tipping point has increased.

Trump ahead in Wisconsin by 3.7% in my average.

Now that's 3.7 is pretty substantial, but you know, if, if the, if the poll averages are underestimating Democrats this time by a couple of percent, it's close again.

Ivan:
[1:28:27]
But this is a state again that, you know, recently that's what that polling data says.

And yet in recent times, they have won almost almost every large, Democrats have won almost every important election in that state, okay? Right.

Sam:
[1:28:43]
In Michigan. We're talking Michigan now.

Ivan:
[1:28:45]
Oh, Michigan. You know, they have won- Did I say Wisconsin?

Sam:
[1:28:47]
It's Michigan. It's Michigan. It's Michigan.

Ivan:
[1:28:50]
You said Wisconsin. In Michigan, where they have won every important election in that state, okay?

And so that's the thing about this, that it really, you know, you see that and then, And then you see what's happening with the voter engagement and what the results are.

But go back, well, Wisconsin. Listen, Wisconsin.

Sam:
[1:29:11]
Wisconsin's right now the closest state. It's like dead tide in my averages.

Ivan:
[1:29:16]
It's dead tide, but they're also large, important statewide elections.

They had the Supreme Court election recently, if I remember correctly, where this was a Republican majority.

Sam:
[1:29:29]
And it was just announced today they're redistricting because of that.

And yeah, because that the new the new court in Wisconsin said, yeah, these districts suck. Fix them. Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:29:39]
And so. So, yeah. So that's a state also where that was, you know, all of a sudden, all of these things have moved over in a in a Democratic direction.

So I really think it's one of these things right now of getting the getting who the hell figuring out who the hell is going to show up the vote.

Sam:
[1:29:58]
Yes.

Ivan:
[1:29:59]
And that's really the bottom line.

Sam:
[1:30:02]
This is hard as well. Like it's really hard to model. It's really hard to guess, right?

And I mean, honestly, in the end, it's like you're saying, well- We would tell you who would win if we know whose voters are going to show up, which is almost a syllogism there.

You know, it's right. But but I think that is key. We're not in a world right now.

I mean, there is a long along the edges. There's some persuasion going on.

But for the most part right now in this world, it's all about getting out the vote.

And you're right that a whole bunch of these recent elections, the Democrats have been showing up in a way the Republicans have not.

And maybe that's the trend that's coming out. And also you got to work into it.

Well, what are the effects of everything that happens over the next year?

And we're going to do our prediction show next week. So I'm not going to do it now, but you know, there, there's so much that goes into that, right?

You know, yes, pain, pain.

Um, but we've got, we've got these trials potentially happening, but you, you think I think so far, every legal thing that's hit Donald Trump has actually made him stronger, not weaker.

But at some point, does that flip?

There's some preliminary, there are some polling that said- Polling shows it made him stronger.

Ivan:
[1:31:24]
Yes, I get that. But the question is- No, no.

Sam:
[1:31:25]
But I was going to say, there is polling that says for a lot of people, a conviction is different than an indictment. And they would consider that differently.

Ivan:
[1:31:34]
Oh, yeah, I did see that. Yes, I did see that.

Sam:
[1:31:37]
That so so bizarre yes so who the fuck knows you know i i don't know it's there are all kinds of factors at play and if if they throw him off the damn ballot and he's not even in the race what does that do you know so anyway but the you know i think the 14th amendment thing it will be interesting like scota certainly has the opportunity to blow up everything if they wanted to but i don't think they want to.

I think they want to sort of slink back into the corner and try to do as little as possible.

Ivan:
[1:32:12]
Is that your dream scenario now? Have SCOTUS just blow this thing up?

Sam:
[1:32:18]
No, actually I think that.

Ivan:
[1:32:23]
But removing Donald Trump from the ballot through the courts, as much as I think in terms of- I think in terms of the law, black and white, he should not be allowed to be on the ballot.

Sam:
[1:32:38]
In terms of the intention of the 14th Amendment, I think it's clear that he should not be on the ballot.

And I think it's actually legitimate for a society to do that.

I mean, Germany kept Nazis out of public office after World War II.

Yeah, totally. Much more recently, like Bolsonaro in Brazil is prohibited from running for office for some number of years.

This is a penalty that has happened in quite a few countries, actually, where especially after significant political upheaval, they've said the people who caused that upheaval are not eligible to be in the government for sometimes forever, sometimes for some period of years.

And so I think that's, in general, a legitimate tactic and a legitimate way to do things because democracies aren't absolute.

There are restrictions on them. And I think one of the potentially reasonable restrictions is saying people who want to completely eliminate the system aren't allowed, or people who have actively worked to overthrow the system aren't allowed.

I think that's reasonable.

Now, sometimes you have revolutions and overthrow things anyway, but that's outside the system.

If you're working within the system, I think it's reasonable to say, hey, you know, you attempted a coup. No, you can't be president.

Ivan:
[1:34:05]
You can't be president. Right. Simple. You know, it doesn't seem that far-fetched.

Sam:
[1:34:10]
However however yeah i think that if it went that way if the courts took him off the ballot i think that's just i i think we would be in for a very very rough year with the potential of things blowing up in ways we can't control i would much rather much much rather just just have Biden crush him.

But again, I get worried looking at all the numbers, even with everything we just talked about, that Biden won't crush him because Biden's not a super strong candidate.

And you risk the scenario of him actually walking in there, winning, getting rid of all his court cases, and then running roughshod over everything for four years.

And he said today, at the end of those four years, he would voluntarily step down. He has no intention of staying more than another four years.

So, of course, we should trust Donald on that, right?

Ivan:
[1:35:13]
Yeah, of course. Yeah. He's very trustworthy.

Sam:
[1:35:15]
I mean, honestly, like, I don't know that he'd last through to four years.

And even if he did, you know, some people are playing up the possibility of him staying forever until he dies.

I don't, I think he, he probably would try to step down after four years because he'd be sick of it, but maybe he'd try to set it up so that Ivanka or Don Jr.

Or somebody could be president after him.

Ivan:
[1:35:41]
I don't think ivanka has any interest whatsoever right now in politics is what it seems like right now she is trying she went she has she has basically it ruined her but she said it yeah she's basically just you know run away from all of this and said that she doesn't want to be involved at all so anyway shall we move on okay let's take a quick break and then we'll we'll maybe do a couple of quick things and rock a bit.

Sam:
[1:36:15]
Exactly.

Ivan:
[1:36:17]
Very clear. Thank you.

Sam:
[1:36:19]
Yes. Back after this. Now, which one is it? Okay. I'll do the one I was supposed to do last time.

It's this, this one. See if it works.

Well, that was exciting.

Ivan:
[1:37:37]
Woo!

Sam:
[1:37:38]
Yeah. I think that's, yeah, I don't know.

I think that's one of the ones that my post-processing messed up a few weeks back.

So we'll see if it happens again. And if it does, I'll adjust it so that it won't next time.

But anyway, so if that sounded weird to you, then too bad. I'll fix it next time.

I'm not going to even pretend I'll fix it this time.

You know my goal this time is to knock this podcast out quickly on saturday so they can be done with and so i can spend the rest of the time getting ready for christmas and don't have to like deal with that anyway ivan what's the next thing you want to talk about let's do a couple quick ones let's not talk for like an hour on anything uh let's see let's see what we're gonna talk about We're going to talk about.

Ivan:
[1:38:33]
Oh, God, let's see.

Sam:
[1:38:36]
Tough choice.

Ivan:
[1:38:46]
This is not on the on the list, but I did share a story on this.

Sam:
[1:38:50]
Oh, getting creative.

Ivan:
[1:38:52]
I don't know if you saw that the latest inflation figures came in oh yeah yeah and that basically inflation right now is below the feds target so we're done every everything's good again well that's what they are saying like right now that we're that it seems that a lot of talk going around about when we can expect interest rate cuts because of this and that it may be sometime in 2024 so so yeah i mean the latest inflation figures i think one thing that definitely has helped for sure i mean this is in the core inflation is well price of fuel has gone down, i mean i've seen a number of videos recently like with people making fun of like republicans with their joe did this sticker on gas pumps and stuff like this and yeah i had mentioned that as well yeah you'd mentioned that but i i've seen some people trying to like make funny little videos where they're pretending to be republicans and are like oh it's getting so hard for us to to complain because look at these gas prices, you know, but we, they're still really high.

Sam:
[1:40:15]
Right. You know? So, yeah.

Ivan:
[1:40:18]
So, yeah. You know, somebody was, was wondering if they're, if, if Republicans are running around like now trying to take the, I did that stickers off of. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's what, it is one of those things. It's, you know.

Gas is down for multiple reasons.

OK, one is that, you know, you keep hearing Republicans saying how Joe Biden was supposedly crushing production of oil and U.S.

Production of oil right now has surged to a record high.

So much for Joe Biden killing oil production in the U.S.

Which which by the way is one of the things that people on the left are kind of upset about including me like we should be we should be reducing here's one thing but but here's but here's the thing this is market share not not not really you know just because you're making more oil doesn't mean you're consuming more oil okay and it's really taking what's happening is that it's taking the Russians and the Saudis and OPEC had been cutting production in order to reduce supply.

And basically what the US producers have done is –, Fill that gap. Okay. And so, so we're not in a situation where we had been in some instances where we were close to even having some shortages of, of, of, of.

Sam:
[1:41:57]
My point was simply that while from the left, there's a big push to like, we should actually be dramatically reducing your fossil fuel usage and not pulling any more out of the ground.

At the same time, Joe's not doing that, even though the Republicans are claiming he is.

And the reality is that he's actually been doing a lot of stuff that should make the Republicans happy and a lot of left wing folks unhappy.

But of course, because of the way the information environment is set up that way, it doesn't work that way.

You know, like you said, like, you know, inflation is way down, but like a lot of folks on the right are not willing to admit that yet. Gas prices are down.

They're not willing to admit that, you know, et cetera.

Ivan:
[1:42:47]
So gasoline consumption right now on a monthly basis is, is I'll say the trend. It's slightly down.

It's definitely not growing in the United States. That that's for sure.

So so yeah i mean we're in a situation where even though we've had a significantly expanding economy gasoline consumption from like say january 20th in to january 2020 we're doing about 8.95 million barrels of gasoline per day right now we are at 8.5 million barrels of gas wait Wait, did you just say 8.5.

Sam:
[1:43:27]
Twice? Is that flat?

Ivan:
[1:43:28]
No, no, no. 8.95 to 8.53.

So considering that it's an expanding economy, And, you know, you've cut consumption like by what, like half, you know, like by 5% about, yeah, around that.

I mean, that's pretty good. So that means that, you know, the unit of energy that we're using per economic output is lower and has continued to be lower for a long time.

I mean, I'm surprised that the levels of total emissions the U.S.

Does per capita emissions as well. I mean, in the U.S., even though it's not ideal where we're at, because the United States was the biggest emitter in the world.

OK, and they are down about by a third from 1990 per capita.

OK, so it's a significant decline, but we were also profligate per capita. We're profligate.

Sam:
[1:44:30]
We've also got a bunch more people. So we all we have to look at absolute numbers for that.

Ivan:
[1:44:34]
Yeah, but the overall emissions, but the thing is that per unit, it's down.

The overall number is also down.

But yeah, I mean, but you got to start in a per capita.

Sam:
[1:44:45]
Right, right, right.

Ivan:
[1:44:46]
You need to figure out, hey, you're a household of four people.

We need to get you down, you know.

You need to start trending each individual unit down. Yes.

Is it to the point where right now it is also at the point where total emissions are coming down, but not at the speed that we still need.

Sam:
[1:45:06]
It needs to.

Ivan:
[1:45:07]
Right.

Sam:
[1:45:08]
Anyway, I did not want to derail us into fossil fuels, which I obviously did.

Your point was more generally about the economy and how it's doing and inflation.

Ivan:
[1:45:16]
So yeah, I mean, the economy continues to do well.

I mean, you know, unemployment figures look look good you know new new job creation is is still on on on track inflation is coming under control i think that i think that for people that it's the the two places where the biggest shocks where where this inflation really ground at their psyche is at the pump and at the grocery store yeah and both of those are coming down not not just not just that the rate of increase is lower but the actual prices are heading down we've got deflation happening in these product areas in these product categories so yeah now as some people have pointed out overall deflation would actually probably be bad there are all kinds of reasons that would cause problems but deflation in these particular pain areas that's not necessarily a problem yeah because there's still pressures in other places, you know, for prices like in housing and whatnot, that those pressures are not abated.

And believe me, deflation is bad. Just ask Japan.

Sam:
[1:46:24]
Or 1930s America.

Ivan:
[1:46:26]
Or 1930s America, Japan. Look, a period of like, you know, significant deflation, I mean, is crushing to an economy.

So yeah, no, we don't want that. Right.

Sam:
[1:46:38]
But if the price of eggs comes down a little bit, that's okay.

Ivan:
[1:46:42]
Yes. Eggs, yes, yes. I like eggs. Do you like eggs?

Sam:
[1:46:49]
Yes, I do like eggs.

Ivan:
[1:46:50]
Do you make eggs at home?

When's the last time you made eggs at home?

Sam:
[1:46:56]
I do not have the requisite biology to make an egg.

Ivan:
[1:47:00]
Okay. I mean, okay. Do you cook eggs that came from a chicken that were put in your, in your, in your kitchen, chicken in the kitchen, Jesus Christ. Okay.

And, and you don't crack them open and make an egg, something out of the chicken eggs into a meal.

Sam:
[1:47:20]
I think I did that once 20 years ago.

Ivan:
[1:47:23]
So you have done it, but 20 years ago.

Sam:
[1:47:27]
I have done that many.

Ivan:
[1:47:29]
Does anybody do that in your house?

Sam:
[1:47:31]
Yes. Okay. My wife hates eggs herself, but will make eggs for the rest of the family.

Ivan:
[1:47:38]
Oh, so the rest of the family likes them, but she will make them for you guys.

Sam:
[1:47:41]
Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:47:41]
That's nice of her.

Sam:
[1:47:43]
And I have eggs eating out all the time as well.

Ivan:
[1:47:47]
Okay. So you like the eggs. It's just you don't remember.

Sam:
[1:47:50]
Oh, I like the eggs. Yes. Like eggs is a staple for me.

Ivan:
[1:47:53]
Okay.

Sam:
[1:47:54]
But just, I'm not necessarily making them myself. Now I, I have done it on occasion, but just in general, you do not want me in the kitchen.

Ivan:
[1:48:03]
I agree. That's that's it's unsafe.

Sam:
[1:48:07]
I have occasionally resorted to trying to cook things myself, and I sometimes manage you.

Ivan:
[1:48:16]
You want Sam needs to be isolated to the microwave.

Sam:
[1:48:20]
Yes, that is my primary tool in the kitchen is the microwave.

And I have at this point, I even do pasta in the microwave.

I'm not allowed on the stove. Well, I guess I would be allowed on the stove.

But, you know, you just don't want that.

Like I have occasionally succeeded in making more complicated things, but it is incredibly stressful for me. I don't enjoy it at all.

And my level of patience from the moment I think to myself, hey, I'm hungry to I'm shoving something in my mouth is five minutes normally.

And if it's for something I really want, maybe I'll stretch it to 10 or 15.

But beyond that, I'm out. I'm out. I'm not waiting that long.

So, yeah, you don't you do not want me in the kitchen.

Ivan:
[1:49:05]
OK, well, that's a good thing. Let's keep you.

Sam:
[1:49:07]
OK, one last thing. One last one last thing.

Ivan:
[1:49:10]
What are you going to do?

Sam:
[1:49:11]
I just wanted to mention that on December 22nd, so a few hours before we're recording, President Joe Biden pardoned thousands of people who were convicted of the use or simple possession of marijuana on federal lands and in the District of Columbia.

So it's his latest round of clemencies. Now, he can't obviously pardon people that were convicted of state crimes and all this kind of stuff.

And it's a federal charge. So these are federal.

Most people, most people in this country who are in jail for marijuana stuff, it is a state level thing.

But he's pardoning thousands of people at the federal level for this. And, you know.

I think this is another one of these steps where, you know, it's just, we've talked about this before.

It's just Joe Biden quietly doing the things he can do to make progress and move things in a good direction.

You know, that he's not necessarily going to get a lot of credit.

It's not going to be like, you know, even a few hours later, this was all kinds of other things were overwhelming this.

This wasn't getting a lot of coverage, you know? And it's just, there was a little interview with Hillary Clinton that I shared as well lately that said, was talking about Joe Biden.

Ivan:
[1:50:33]
Oh, yeah, yeah. We didn't talk about that. Yes.

Sam:
[1:50:36]
And basically said, he's boring. Maybe I'll, you know, I'll insert it right here.

Hillary Clinton:
[1:50:42]
I just want to say a word about Biden. I mean, part of the problem that Biden has is not that he's old. He's old. Okay. That's an issue.

It's a reality. reality he's gotten more done as an old man that you know many people you know half his age could have gotten done true but he's boring and why is he boring because he gets up every day and does a job and he models responsible leadership and he's not a performer and and he you know he's not constantly in our face saying something outrageous so that we all going oh my god i don't know what what he's going to do next. And we can't turn away.

It's a huge problem because performance politics, whether it was Boris Johnson in London or Donald Trump in the United States, is a form of, you know, entertainment that kind of helps people avoid being citizens.

You know, I'm a consumer of entertainment and this is entertaining to me.

Future Sam:
[1:51:41]
Do, do, do. Sam from the future here.

Just adding an appropriate attribution, that clip was from the Pantsuit Politics podcast from the December 15th, 2023 episode.

I actually saw just that clip published on TikTok, but go listen to the whole podcast. There you go.

Back to the show. Do, do, do.

Sam:
[1:52:09]
So basically, she said that the problem with Joe Biden is he's boring.

You know, and we said, like, you know, going back to the beginning of the Biden administration, when he first won, one of the things Yvonne and I were talking about a lot was we were looking forward to how boring he was going to be.

Ivan:
[1:52:25]
Yes. Agreed.

Sam:
[1:52:27]
Because, you know, he just sort of chugs along quietly doing the damn job.

You know, he's not out there being flashy.

He's incapable of it. You know, he's not like doing things for the cameras or to make the headlines for today.

A lot of the things he's doing are quiet behind the scenes and then they pop up.

Like, you know, the fact he actually got the damn infrastructure bill passed, you know, it's like, you know, yeah. Yeah.

And then, you know, every, it seems like everyone forgot about it right away.

You know, he's not getting a lot of credit for it, but he got a whole bunch of shit done in the first half of his administration.

It's harder now with the Republican house, but you know, and this is a thing that can be done at the executive level.

They, they haven't, you know, we, we still have federal laws against marijuana, even though like two thirds of the States or something now allow it.

But this is the kind of thing that just says, you know, there are a bunch of people in jail for this thing that now in most states we think is not really a big deal.

So let them loose. Yeah. You know, and it's just, it's on the grand scheme of things.

This is maybe small, but for the thousands of people affected, this is a big deal, you know, and it's just another one of those things.

Ivan:
[1:53:48]
And it's, it's just one of those things that just doesn't get, you know. I mean, it's like, just doesn't, people don't pay attention to.

And Joe Biden, like you said, you know, Hillary was talking about how it just goes about everything.

Sam:
[1:54:06]
Getting shit done i mean and it's like yeah and you don't have this other circus act freak guy who's just going around and just you know what can he blow up today right you know we we had four years of that it was exhausting and we're still talking we're still talking about him today but oh my god for those four years he was in office it was exhausting yeah absolutely like Like psychically, mentally exhausting, you know, because you always had to at any given moment wonder what the hell has gotten blown up today.

Yeah. You know, and, you know, there's always some of that, but it's a lot less.

Yeah. It's a lot less under Joe. And, you know, that's part of the reasons why, you know, it's hard for him in a campaign like this.

And hopefully as the campaign ramps up, we'll, we'll see better.

But like, yeah, it's like the, the, the, the quiet, steady doing the job is not giving sort of the dopamine hit of the entertainment value of a Donald Trump, but it really is like better, please.

Ivan:
[1:55:15]
You know so i i i don't know who i mean it's really difficult for me to understand anybody that enjoyed you know well it's really difficult for me to empathize with that person because basically that these people that enjoyed it are just look i'll admit to some to some degree i'm I mean, I've, I've been addicted to the drama of Trump since he first came on the scene, but it doesn't mean it's healthy.

I, I, I really could, I really want boring again. Can't, can we have boring?

Sam:
[1:55:55]
It's just, it's been a lot more boring the last few years than it was during while Trump was actually president.

Hopefully we can get it even more boring, you know? Yeah.

Ivan:
[1:56:08]
More boring. that should be like the that should be the biden campaign slogan the boring express, i'm not sure that would work you don't think now i i would love here's the thing i would i am all for that yes i i guess a lot of people were not gonna like it but i i want the boring express, wait what is in that one of elon's companies that's what you mean right he's got the boring company.

Well, of course, you know, that seems to be a whole scam at this point.

Sam:
[1:56:44]
Well, what a shock.

Ivan:
[1:56:45]
Yeah, I know.

Sam:
[1:56:47]
Anyway, let's wrap it up, Yvonne.

Ivan:
[1:56:49]
Okay. Wrap it.

Sam:
[1:56:51]
So first up, I will repeat what I said at the beginning of the show.

Our prediction show is next week. I am disappointed in all of you listeners.

Ivan:
[1:57:03]
Pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain.

Sam:
[1:57:05]
You have not contributed.

Ivan:
[1:57:07]
Go to tinyurl.com.

Sam:
[1:57:09]
Slash ccpred2024. Add your suggestions for things that Yvonne and I should predict.

And if for whatever reason you have trouble getting there, go to curmudgeon-corner.com where you have all of the ways to contact us.

Ivan:
[1:57:26]
Email mastodon facebook and just make your suggestions through one of those ways and i'll add them myself um but we would love to have some of your your suggestions here if not by the time we get to tuesday i'm gonna start filling in the kinds of things we usually pain pain pain pain also on curmudgeon typhoon corner.com you can see our archive okay we're done with the pain mr bow Oh, we're done with the pain?

Okay, but I thought I'm supposed to do it for two hours.

Sam:
[1:57:59]
Oh, yes. Sorry. Keep going, then.

Ivan:
[1:58:02]
I'm trying to practice. I'm trying to pain, pain, pain. I'm trying to practice.

Sam:
[1:58:06]
Yeah, okay. Keep going. And so you can also find our archives, including transcripts of recent shows, and of course, a link to our Patreon, where you can give us money at various levels.

At various levels. We will send you a postcard. We will mention you on the show. We will ring a bell.

We will, what else? Show up and babysit your kids. No, no, we're not going to do that.

But at $2 a month or more, or a mug, we could send you a mug.

At $2 a month or more, or if you just ask, we will invite you to our Commodions Corner Slack, where Yvonne and I and a bunch of our listeners are chatting throughout the week, sharing newsy links, talking about other stuff.

So Yvonne, how about one thing from the Commercants Corner Slack this week that we have not talked about on the show?

Ivan:
[1:58:53]
Buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, look and look and look and look and look in.

OK, so here we go. Well, we don't have to go too far.

Dukes of Hazzard star John Schneider.

Sam:
[1:59:06]
He was Bo, right? He was Bo, Bo, Bo and Luke Duke. He was Bo.

Ivan:
[1:59:10]
Yeah, I think he was Bo. Yeah, Bo, Bo. Yeah. John Schneider suggests Biden be executed and now delete a tweet.

Tweet john schneider claims the president and his son hunter are guilty of treason just some thought just a short time after he was unmasked on the masked singer i don't understand this fucking show first of all i mean i don't not that i don't understand i understand what happens on the show never watched it sarah palin was on it a while back i remember that i i just i don't this show's stupid.

And, well, these are the losers.

Sam:
[1:59:47]
I've never actually watched the show.

Ivan:
[1:59:49]
I've never watched the show either. I've heard other people talk about the show.

I just have never watched it.

Sam:
[1:59:55]
So what did Bo Duke actually post?

Ivan:
[1:59:58]
The post was, it said something that, let me, let me, they've got a picture of the actual tweet. Yeah, they got a picture of the tweet.

Mr. President, I believe you're guilty of treason and should be publicly hung. Oh, your son, too.

Your response is sincerely John Schneider.

That's very nice and loving, caring.

Sam:
[2:00:20]
He, of course, denies that that was in any way a threat.

Ivan:
[2:00:25]
Oh, no, no, no. This is all love. Love.

Sam:
[2:00:30]
Now, honestly, wait, look at that. He said he should be hung, not that he was going to hang him or anything like that. So that's not a threat.

Ivan:
[2:00:43]
Yeah, it's not threatening. It's a very, very nice, you know, message. Kind, loving.

Sam:
[2:00:49]
Yeah, I mean, apparently the Secret Service is talking to him.

I don't think they're going to charge him for anything.

There's a reasonable case to be made that no one took. No one would take that as a serious bodily harm threat.

But we are living in this environment where, you know, all kinds of randos read tweets like this and do take action.

Ivan:
[2:01:09]
That's a problem. Wow. In a statement to HuffPost, Schneider denied his tweet calling for Biden to be executed.

Seriously, folks, I said no such thing. Despite headlines claiming otherwise, I absolutely did not call for an act of violence or threaten a U.S. president, he said.

Yerdo's tweet clearly reads that Biden should be publicly hung.

Schneider sent out a second statement a short time later, doubling down, insisting that suggesting that the president be publicly hung isn't a call for violence.

Right oh it's a call for so what is it then so so if it's not it's not violence sam what is he calling for yeah it's a peaceful resolution of our conflicts through death oh okay that's oh through yeah through through through you know through death that is not very noisy except for the noises that the person might make as he is dying you you can do a non-violent hanging You can do a non-violent hanging.

Okay. Kind of like your tree, I guess. Okay. All right.

You know, so anyway, he's just, he's just a, he's just a dickhead.

Sam:
[2:02:21]
This guy has been diving deeper and deeper into Magaland for the last decade or so. So, you know, not surprising.

Ivan:
[2:02:29]
Yeah.

Um you know uh i mean this guy i mean he's nobody nobody i mean shit i mean i watched the show i did watch the show okay back then he was a somebody but right now he's just a fucking, dumbass nobody who the fuck he's you know hey john schneider here another message i i told told Rudy and Juliana go fuck themselves, hey, fuck you too. Okay, all right.

Sam:
[2:03:04]
Excellent. So there you go.

Ivan:
[2:03:10]
That could be your title for the show.

Sam:
[2:03:12]
Yeah, I try to avoid the expletives in the title, but, you know, because I don't know. They get us.

Ivan:
[2:03:19]
I think that that might get us into problems, yes. Yeah.

Sam:
[2:03:22]
So anyway, although we do have, you know, the whole show is marked as explicit, which probably also reduces our listener potential listenership.

Like Apple, like D down ranks anything with that tag in there when they push things out.

Not like they're pushing us out anyway, but you know, it's, it's, it's, it's not a plus for us. Yeah.

Ivan:
[2:03:47]
Damn it.

Sam:
[2:03:49]
Yeah, exactly. There you go. God, we have tried occasionally not to swear and failed.

Ivan:
[2:03:55]
Yeah. We're not very good at it.

Sam:
[2:03:58]
So, yeah, whatever. Anyway, hey, everybody. It is...

Christmas week, for those of you who celebrate, have a great holiday.

For those of you who celebrate other winter holidays, have great ones of those as well.

Whether they're in progress, finished already, or about to start.

Any of the above, enjoy, have a great, you know, thing.

Ivan:
[2:04:24]
Holiday.

Sam:
[2:04:25]
Yeah, holiday. That's the word. We will, hopefully some of you, I'm actually taking time off. Like I usually work through this time and just have light work days.

I, I, this time I'm actually like, screw it. I'm taking two weeks off.

Ivan:
[2:04:38]
So, so am I.

Sam:
[2:04:40]
So, yeah. So I, I, I was at work today, Friday and, but next two weeks I'm out.

I'm not opening my work computer at all. Fuck them. You know?

Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Anyway, yeah, not opening the computer, the work computer for a couple of weeks. So that'll be really nice.

Not going anywhere or doing anything, just catching up on projects around home and relaxing like the relaxing thing.

Just like, like you were mentioning sleeping in, I am going to sleep in every goddamn day.

So, you know, yes, that sounds great.

Okay. Everybody have a great holiday. Have a great week. We will be back next time around for the prediction show to predict 2024.

And then the week after that, we will review our 2023 predictions and see how we did, which is always interesting.

OK, that's it. Goodbye.

Ivan:
[2:05:43]
Bye.

Sam:
[2:05:44]
Play the thing.

And hit stop.

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