Sam: Hello.
Ivan: Hi.
Sam: Hi.
Sam: Let's get rid of my extra things. Okay, turn off your sound, Alex.
Ivan: Your shirt has a logo of... What is that?
Sam: Whatever brand of shirt it is.
Ivan: Is it?
Sam: Yeah.
Ivan: It's not something from a movie or TV show?
Sam: No.
Ivan: It looks like something from a movie or TV show.
Sam: I'll read that. No. No. I'll find it. Hold on.
Ivan: I think you're wrong.
Sam: No, I am right. It is a generic, like, shirt thing.
Ivan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sam: That I got one time when I was like, maybe I'll actually exercise.
Sam: Which, of course, I've never done. but I am all completely sweaty because I
Sam: did ugh okay here you go let's see here I'll actually use the,
Sam: chat inside the where is the maybe I won't there's a chat the chat inside Riverside?
Sam: Wow yeah Riverside the studio
Sam: chat here we go there are multiple chats there you
Sam: go um and meanwhile
Sam: let's make sure the live stream is going hello
Sam: live stream people that is going although our my signal is sucky but okay let's
Sam: see did it do this yes and ah blah blah blah of course i was gonna do an image search.
Ivan: But as I started, as I went to take a screenshot, your image turned completely fuzzy on my end.
Sam: Yeah.
Ivan: I, I.
Sam: I was noticing that on the the youtube thingy maybe it'll get better maybe it
Sam: won't who knows shall we start.
Ivan: Yeah okay.
Sam: Did you look at the amazon link is that.
Ivan: Not yet hold on uh i was i was seeing what what new came on the slack okay here
Ivan: we go all right let's see of course it's not clickable okay let's not use this
Ivan: chat ever again okay all right shall we it's a stupid thing i'll.
Sam: I'll text it to you instead.
Ivan: No, no, no. I copied and pasted it now.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: Nellius Men's Dry Fit Mesh Athletic Shirt.
Ivan: One word that we know that we shouldn't mix together with Sam is the word athletic.
Sam: I think when I bought these, like...
Ivan: You were under the delusion.
Sam: Well, it was May 2018, the last time I bought these. I did buy it a couple times.
Sam: So I have like six of these shirts or something. But I did actually go to the
Sam: gym like a handful of times.
Ivan: Oh, okay. Okay.
Sam: And then I didn't.
Ivan: And then you.
Sam: But I have worn them when I was out of regular t-shirts.
Ivan: Ah, I see.
Sam: So anyway, shall we go?
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: Okay, here we go. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Ivan: Blah, blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Sam: I'll see you next time.
Sam: welcome to curmudgeon's corner for saturday
Sam: june 7th 2025 it
Sam: is 1740 utc as we're starting to record this show so here we are here we are
Sam: together again together together again isn't there a song we're together yeah
Sam: there is but i can't come up with it right now yeah i don't know you know,
Sam: and everyone should be glad that we can't.
Sam: So, yes, I guess we'll do our usual.
Sam: We'll start out like with non-newsy stuff and then we'll get more newsy as the day progresses.
Sam: So I don't know. It's it's a day. I'm,
Sam: You know, I could just go back to sleep right now. I'd be fine with that.
Sam: You know, it's just a thing.
Ivan: I mean, nothing's happened this week.
Sam: Of course, nothing at all. Are we going to go into our usual joke of how nothing
Sam: has happened when something has happened?
Ivan: It's calm and relaxed. I mean, what joke? What are you talking about?
Ivan: You know, what happened? You know, it's one of those standard, substandard weeks.
Sam: Right. Okay. So, I don't know.
Ivan: You know, my week, let me put it this way. Not just the stuff that happened.
Ivan: Look, I should have known Monday how this week was going to be insane. Okay?
Ivan: Because my week started off with insanity. okay because i had a business trip i oh.
Sam: I believe i heard a little bit about this.
Ivan: I dutifully prepared for this business trip
Ivan: i got to the airport on time and
Ivan: as i am sitting there waiting to board the flight i i look at my at my phone
Ivan: at my emails i hadn't looked at them because i was i was taking care of a whole
Ivan: bunch of other things and whatnot i remember i i i was like you know,
Ivan: getting chats about this and that,
Ivan: stuff going on, blah, blah, blah.
Ivan: I look at my work emails and I see that the people I'm meeting with tomorrow
Ivan: have sent me a thing saying that, oh, we're canceling the meeting.
Ivan: This is as I am at the boarding area for the flight. Okay.
Ivan: And so now I had some other business to tend to, but that was the key part of my trip. Okay.
Ivan: But there were other things. Okay. So I'm like, look,
Ivan: Well, I'm about the board. You know, the other things weren't as cooked as this.
Ivan: This was very important. I'm like, let me just, whatever. We'll go anyway. All right.
Ivan: Our aircraft that is supposed to take us gets there. Okay.
Ivan: And soon after it gets there, a big cluster of thunderstorms rolls in to Miami. Okay.
Sam: Okay. Yeah. And as happens sometimes in that part of the world.
Ivan: You know, you get some passing thunderstorms on a regular basis.
Ivan: This is the more, not the normal one.
Ivan: This was like far heavier, broader, and more intense.
Ivan: As a matter of fact, that system later was seen as possibility for tropical
Ivan: development, like later. Okay?
Sam: I remember seeing an NHC map that had like a little yellow blob in that area.
Ivan: And it was that thunderstorm system, okay, that developed very swiftly, okay?
Ivan: And so thunderstorms roll in a couple of things.
Ivan: What things happen? Number one, well, all takeoffs and landings were stopped
Ivan: because this was that bad that they had to stop all traffic, okay?
Ivan: The ramp gets closed, so all the employees have to shelter in place.
Ivan: I mean, you can see the thunder and lightning, like, rolling in really bad.
Ivan: Okay, so flight's delayed. I've had this happen before. I mean,
Ivan: you know, this has happened. It's caused a delay, and we're usually,
Ivan: you know, on our way late or whatever. So I wait. We wait, wait.
Ivan: One of the annoying things, and I've seen this with other airlines,
Ivan: not just American, that the updates that they put on departure time are not helpful, okay?
Ivan: Because the system keeps automatically
Ivan: saying, oh, we didn't leave at 2.30. Oh, we'll leave at 2.45.
Ivan: 2.45 for a sign. Oh, no, we'll leave at 3.
Ivan: Oh, the computer, uh-uh. No, 3.15. I'm like, look.
Sam: It's being optimistic, Yvonne.
Ivan: I mean, we haven't even boarded the fucking plane. How the fuck are we leaving in 15 minutes, okay?
Ivan: All right, this is not happening, okay, in any way, stretch, or form.
Ivan: So updates keep rolling around. At some point, I'm hungry.
Ivan: Thankfully, right across from the gate, there was a nice restaurant.
Ivan: So I went over to the nice restaurant to have a meal, okay, got something,
Ivan: whatever. And then as I finish my meal and I walk back to the gate at around
Ivan: five o'clock, they cancel the flight. Okay.
Ivan: And this is as I saw people actually in the ramp working because the storms had stopped.
Ivan: But they they they cancel the flight.
Ivan: Now, I must admit, I had not looked at how bad the situation was in terms of diversions.
Ivan: I realized later that, holy shit, I mean, they diverted everything to like,
Ivan: I mean, all the international flights coming from Europe got sent to Orlando.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: I spoke to someone I know over there that works at the airport and they told
Ivan: me, listen, we got all of a sudden, I had to work an 18, she had to work an 18 hour shift.
Ivan: Okay. At Orlando, because so many flights from Europe that they didn't expect came in.
Ivan: that they had to handle all of a sudden, okay? And they sent them to Palm Beach
Ivan: and they sent them to everywhere.
Ivan: And so when they canceled the flight, I'm like, look, my meeting got canceled, okay?
Ivan: You know, my flight gets canceled. So I call, you know, so I call our travel
Ivan: agency and I just said, listen, just cancel the hotel.
Ivan: Don't even try to rebook me. I saw the next flight to San Juan also got canceled.
Ivan: There was a line at the airport that I'm not exaggerating, probably was almost
Ivan: a mile long of people trying to get assistance.
Ivan: OK, all right. Which is particularly insane.
Ivan: I think I'm like, guys, I'm like at this point getting into that stupid line.
Sam: Right.
Ivan: It's just there is no point. Just just just whatever.
Ivan: you know just don't get a dislike call up
Ivan: do something whatever so which is what i did i mean
Ivan: i called our travel agency i told just cancel everything cancel it's okay
Ivan: as a little car you want me to rebook you nah listen i
Ivan: gotta figure out what the fuck's going on you canceled my
Ivan: meeting whatever so then i go back down to get baggage claim because i i check
Ivan: my bags i i hate carrying my bag so like let me try to get my bag well no bags
Ivan: listen it's gonna take eight hours to unsnarl the bag mess that has been created right now.
Ivan: And I'm like, ah, fuck that. Look, I'll put a claim.
Ivan: And I don't know, some of the people don't understand how this process works,
Ivan: even the employees. And I was just like,
Ivan: okay just they'll send me the bag oh no no they won't do that
Ivan: i'm like look whatever i know they'll send me the back to
Ivan: the house whatever so i pulled in the claim whatever put
Ivan: it in the system got in my car i went home and unfortunately
Ivan: at rush hour which basically with the storms the rain even though the the the
Ivan: thunderstorm part itself was passed the rain had not ceased okay for hours and
Ivan: hours all the way driving home it was pouring rain it took me two hours to drive home okay all right.
Ivan: How bad the the weather was so i
Ivan: go to check you know i i didn't
Ivan: expect to find out anything on my about my bag that night
Ivan: and i'm like okay next day let me see where
Ivan: the hell the bag is and i track the the the
Ivan: track it with the with the little tracking number should now
Ivan: now they all have this air tag tracking thing
Ivan: i'm gonna get a fucking air tag to track the bag because all
Ivan: the airlines now support it as well in order to find your backpack
Ivan: right well i checked the next day my my
Ivan: flight's in puerto rico they put it on the first flight in the
Ivan: morning to puerto rico because your back still went yeah
Ivan: my back still went because and actually the airline was trying to be helpful
Ivan: because they figured hey this guy needed to get there i'm sure he'll get on
Ivan: another flight let's just send him the bag over there let's get get his bag
Ivan: over there so he's got his luggage when he gets there well no i i didn't and
Ivan: so then i call american and i'm like guys.
Ivan: You sent my bag well we were trying to get it
Ivan: for you to get because they get there and i'm like yeah oh no
Ivan: you're right okay well can you bring it back yes we'll
Ivan: bring the back back so this was the
Ivan: bag i checked it in on monday i did not get
Ivan: the bag back until thursday now
Ivan: they did deliver it like as i expected to my
Ivan: house i did not have to go to the airport to go get it i
Ivan: don't understand why well you actually it's they do
Ivan: have this very nice service you know whatever you put in your
Ivan: information and some guy just came in and brought it
Ivan: all the way to my house so i didn't have to do that but basically
Ivan: i i should have known as my with all the shit that went wrong in the week and
Ivan: a whole bunch of other things that work where all of a sudden And we had just
Ivan: things that I had planned in one way and everything went sideways.
Ivan: I'm like, you know, this is just an omen to all how our week as a nation has gone.
Sam: Oh, an omen. Yes.
Ivan: Yes. It just, I mean, you know, I don't think that as a country we have ever
Ivan: had a spectacle between our president and a key advisor.
Ivan: In the way that it happened this week in public. This has never happened, right? I'm not wrong.
Ivan: I mean, has this ever happened like this? With a key advisor.
Sam: Well, like this. With threats.
Ivan: Probably not. With threats and insults and threats and, you know,
Ivan: just, I mean, vicious attacks.
Ivan: attacks, including attacks of accusing the other guy of pedophilia,
Ivan: of participating in a pedophilia ring, which apparently is a thing for Elon.
Sam: Well, he just said he was in the files. He didn't say in what capacity.
Ivan: Oh, yes. He just meant it in a good way. It was in a positive way. Yes.
Ivan: It's going to come out that he's in the files in a positive way.
Ivan: He was the savior of the children. Well, that's why.
Sam: Yes.
Ivan: That's why that's why Elon mentioned him, you know, prominently,
Ivan: of course, he's the savior. Sam, I forgot. Yes.
Ivan: I mean, he's you know, that's right. He's such a kind man.
Sam: Yes. So undoubtedly, Trump versus Musk will be one of our main topics as we
Sam: proceed on this show. I can't imagine avoiding it.
Ivan: It's just that what the fuck? I mean, everything is, Sam,
Ivan: you know, look, if we scripted a movie of this shit,
Ivan: listen, we've said this before, but even more today, if we had written a script
Ivan: 15 years ago, describing the situation for a movie about the presidency,
Ivan: we would have been laughed out of the, you know, out of the studio.
Ivan: I was like, you guys are out of your minds. It's ridiculous.
Ivan: They're never going to happen.
Sam: Yes. I mean, we have mocked before sort of how off the rails the later seasons of House of Cards went.
Ivan: Yeah.
Sam: And we're getting in that zone, you know?
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: And we certainly are well past, like, things that happened in West Wing, you know?
Ivan: Oh!
Sam: Yes, anyway. Ah, so I have one thought that's just a riff off what you said
Sam: on your travel situation before I get to my movie, which is this.
Sam: You mentioned your rush hour escape from the airport back home.
Ivan: Yeah.
Sam: As our loyal listeners know, I have for a long time now, we have been required
Sam: at my employer to go back into the office five days a week.
Sam: It was three days a week for a while, and then now it's five days.
Ivan: Let me ask you a question. Have you gotten used to it now?
Sam: Hell no.
Ivan: No?
Sam: No. Okay. Every single time I do it, I'm swearing at myself the whole damn trip back and forth.
Ivan: Okay. You know, because I went through, the reason I say that is because I went through this.
Ivan: Now, what happened is that I changed, not that my employer changed their minds. I changed jobs.
Sam: Right.
Ivan: Back in 2010. And I went from HP, where I worked from home for several years,
Ivan: back to an office environment that not only did I have to go to the office five
Ivan: days a week, I had to be there at 8 a.m.
Sam: Well, thank God I don't have that, at least. I have been attempting recently
Sam: to try to be there closer to nine.
Sam: And here's where I say, like, whatever has been going on, the last two to three
Sam: weeks, traffic has gotten significantly worse.
Sam: And I don't know what changed, okay?
Ivan: Some other companies started mandating people to go back to the office?
Sam: Probably. I hadn't read that news story, but probably something like that.
Sam: I, you know, but here's the deal.
Sam: Like, prior to maybe three weeks ago, the trip in...
Sam: I'd say, like I've said on a show before, if I go at like two in the morning
Sam: when there's no traffic, it's about a 35 minute door to door drive. Okay.
Sam: You know, if I was Yvonne, I could make it in less.
Ivan: How many miles is it?
Sam: About 25.
Ivan: Oh shit. Yeah. I'd make it in less.
Sam: Now, now the beginning and end of that is not highway, but like the bulk of it doesn't matter.
Ivan: I'm, shit, I could tear it a lot less than that.
Sam: Yes, now, with me meticulously following speed limits and traffic laws, takes about 35, okay?
Ivan: Okay.
Sam: With no traffic. Now, the actual, like, my morning experience going in was probably
Sam: typically between 45 minutes and an hour, okay?
Ivan: Not terrible.
Sam: Unless, you could be guaranteed, If it was raining or otherwise bad weather,
Sam: it would instantly add at least 20 minutes to it, maybe more. Okay?
Sam: And if there were accidents along the way, even more. So, like,
Sam: it could spike up to as high as two hours.
Sam: But that was rare under certain conditions.
Sam: And my trip back would typically be around an hour.
Sam: Because my trip back would typically... And part of this was the morning,
Sam: like, I would go in a little bit later, and there'd be a little bit less traffic in the morning.
Sam: But anyway, the last three weeks, consistently, both morning and evening commutes,
Sam: closer to 90 minutes and sometimes longer in, in both directions.
Ivan: Wow.
Sam: Even when there's like good weather, no obvious accidents, you know, whatever.
Sam: And that has been, and, and,
Sam: you know, part of it, I mentioned, I was trying to get in a little bit earlier
Sam: that undoubtedly is part of it because I am closer to the, the big bulk of the
Sam: traffic going through the snake's digestive system.
Sam: But it's not all that. Because even when I've gone in a little bit later, it's still...
Ivan: At 90 minutes, has it not made you reconsider taking the rail option to go into the city?
Sam: No. Because every... I have tried this. Here's the thing.
Sam: First of all, for me to get from where I am to the closest rail option is already
Sam: like 40 minutes out of that commute.
Ivan: It's 40 minutes? That far?
Sam: Well, during the traffic, it would be a lot faster if it wasn't.
Sam: But I would have to get past a chunk of that traffic to get to the rail.
Ivan: Okay.
Sam: Second, I tried the light rail when they opened the closest stations to me.
Ivan: Okay.
Sam: Right after it opened, within two to three weeks of it opening. Okay.
Sam: Parking was no problem whatsoever. I have subsequently heard that the parking
Sam: garage there fills up by like 7 a.m., maybe even earlier.
Ivan: No.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: Okay.
Sam: Well, that makes it not. So I can't park and ride there either.
Sam: I would have to find some other way.
Sam: But even when I did that, once I got to the platform, my time into the city
Sam: was still at least that hour and a half.
Sam: And I've already burned 30 minutes plus to get there.
Sam: And once I get to the train station in the city, I then have to walk to my office,
Sam: which is another 20 minute walk.
Ivan: It's not even really, you know, I would have, I would have assumed it's more every convenient.
Ivan: I've done, because the reason I mentioned it, I've gotten, you know,
Ivan: so like we've got, there is a, there are two rail options now to go from Boca
Ivan: Raton into, into Miami downtown. Okay.
Ivan: Both of them during rush hour, if I went, if I had to go regularly,
Ivan: basically would be meet or beat the time it would take me by driving.
Sam: Every, I have over the years, I have tried the light rail. I have tried buses.
Sam: I have, I have tried every combination of the above that I can try, have figured out.
Sam: Every time it seems like a new option is available, I have tried it.
Sam: And the, the, every single one, the door to door time is significantly longer than the drive time.
Sam: the one advantage there is one advantage which is i can sit there and i can
Sam: go back to sleep right i can sit there and read i can do something else i'm
Sam: not going to sit there and work,
Sam: but i i'm i can potentially relax if you had.
Ivan: To you could.
Sam: If i had to i could but i'm not going to i'll be honest with myself but you.
Ivan: Know what i'm saying Okay, no, but you could have something that all of a sudden
Ivan: requires you to do something, and you could do it.
Sam: You could conceivably. There is also a company shuttle option that could be taken.
Sam: But from what I—and I have never actually tried that one, but I have listened to people who have.
Sam: It has very restrictive schedules, you know, and you have to sign up in advance
Sam: for, I am going to be on this bus at this time. And that just doesn't work for me.
Sam: And so I've explored all those options. Driving is the, is still the best option
Sam: for me, but it's, it's killing three hours a day right now.
Sam: And that is a lot of time.
Sam: out of the schedule, you know, and it, and yeah, I'm a, I listen to podcasts
Sam: or whatever, but you know, it, it, it is, and it has increased over the last few weeks.
Sam: Like, and could I potentially alleviate some of this by adjusting my hours further?
Sam: Maybe like, you know, take,
Sam: take morning meetings at home but it
Sam: yes i can and i've experimented with some of that but it it helps some but then
Sam: it it kills your momentum in the middle of the day like i kind of want to like
Sam: once i'm working yeah i don't yeah i'm working i'm with you i.
Ivan: Yeah yeah yeah i i'm with you on that one i don't like the oh yeah like take
Ivan: a meeting and then go thing unless unless there's a 7 a.m. meeting that has to happen.
Sam: Yeah yeah i mean i've done that in those kinds of situations and and i you know
Sam: and i have done that when the calendar works out for it but you lose that momentum
Sam: but i'll say even with even without that even if the commute is at the very beginning,
Sam: look i'm already getting up earlier than i want to get up in order to do work
Sam: anyway right like Right.
Sam: If I had my druthers, I would not be up before 10, 11 a.m.
Sam: any day ever, you know, and I'd stay up two or three.
Ivan: I don't know what the fuck is
Ivan: going on with me now, but I have been having problems sleeping past 730.
Ivan: And this has not been an issue to me in the past.
Sam: I've gone through periods where that has been true where like my schedule my
Sam: work schedule was consistent enough for long enough that I started sort of waking up on my own yeah.
Ivan: And this is what's been happening I've been setting the alarm for later.
Sam: And I keep waking up before it goes off well.
Ivan: Before the damn alarm goes off.
Sam: Yeah I'm.
Ivan: So angry at myself about this I.
Sam: Gotta be honest but anyway what I was saying though is like,
Sam: then I'm not a morning person anyway. I struggle with mornings.
Sam: Afternoon is much more productive for me regardless. But if you start my day
Sam: by a waking up before my body is ready to wake up and then a 90 minute drive,
Sam: I arrive at the office like already wiped and like not like,
Sam: So it makes it even harder for me to get into the groove and get going once I'm there.
Sam: And it's just, it all sucks.
Sam: It all sucks. Now, I'm hoping, like what you said may be true.
Sam: It may be somebody new is requiring people to come into the office,
Sam: and that's why the traffic is bad, and therefore it's going to be permanent.
Sam: i'm kind of hoping it's something temporary
Sam: and it'll get back to how it was which
Sam: wasn't great but it was better than what it is right now better
Sam: than this yeah you know or or
Sam: maybe i will have to like really investigate you know screw it completely change
Sam: my schedule like get up really freaking early and beat the morning rush and
Sam: be at work at like seven or some crap and then leave early too I don't know. Leave it three.
Sam: Yeah. Although traffic is already bad at three. I've done that, but I've.
Ivan: Noticed that too. You know, the traffic coming from Miami, whenever I have to
Ivan: go, I mean, I can't remember the hell it was that I arrived at a flight. Oh, I arrived at two 30.
Ivan: I will get stuck in traffic at three o'clock. And I was like,
Ivan: ha ha, you idiot. Very funny.
Ivan: You're such an ad. You're such a dumb ass. Yeah. You're stuck in traffic anyway. Yeah.
Sam: Yeah, I've joked before, what I need is a catapult.
Ivan: That would be interesting.
Sam: Yeah.
Ivan: You know, I mean, that would be an interesting way to get to work,
Ivan: you know, as people see you.
Ivan: I would suggest that to make it an easier landing, that you wear a parachute.
Ivan: So you will be catapulted very high distance. And then as you're approaching,
Ivan: like your destination, you pull chute and then you make a nice soft landing.
Ivan: It would just impress the hell out of everybody.
Sam: In my head, I wasn't catapulting sort of out in the open. I was in like a giant hamster ball.
Sam: So the hamster ball could have a parachute.
Ivan: The hamster ball could have a parachute. Yeah. The hamster ball has a parachute,
Ivan: and you click a button, and then you gently descend to your destination.
Ivan: It's not a bad idea, actually.
Sam: You know, I'm sure we could make it work. There wouldn't be any liability issues.
Ivan: Hey, maybe we could talk to Elon now. I think he's got more spare time.
Sam: You know, I believe it was just on last week's show that we said we should not
Sam: dismiss the stupid ideas out of hand. We should go all in.
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: So catapult-based hamster ball commute.
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: We will be billionaires any day now. Yes. I'm sure everybody will be signing up.
Ivan: We'll be mocking all these people that are only centimillionaires, you know, very soon.
Ivan: As as i tried to watch another one of
Ivan: these shows about billionaires like
Ivan: because i i think i mentioned in the slack that i tried to
Ivan: watch this succession okay right one
Ivan: of our listeners also said he had the same problem after watching
Ivan: three or four shows i get so sick of these people i'm
Ivan: just like i can't watch this fucking show i fucking want to
Ivan: punch these people in the face i can't i fuck them
Ivan: all i i can't i i can't do it okay so
Ivan: i also they said that they they had published this movie on
Ivan: hbo as well called mountain head which is about a set of billionaires and some
Ivan: kind of like it's some takes a lot of things that are happening right now changes
Ivan: in some way it's fictional okay as to how these billionaires deal with some
Ivan: you know chaos that's happening in the world, you know,
Ivan: spawned by AI in some way and some of the stuff or whatever and how they're
Ivan: talking about how all billionaires now want their own, like, independent, like.
Ivan: Fiefdom in the middle of the ocean or country or they
Ivan: want to take over a country or something i started watching like
Ivan: first 20 30 minutes of this this thing and i i i'm
Ivan: like okay fuck this i can't i can't watch i i want to
Ivan: punch these guys i can't i can't deal with these assholes i can't do it fuck
Ivan: i i so i i so i i quit that one but the one thing that was in the movie was
Ivan: that uh there were a couple of guys that were billionaires and they were friends
Ivan: with this guy that only was a centimillionaire.
Ivan: So he only had, he only had hundreds of millions and how they mocked them for.
Sam: Right.
Ivan: He called them soups, like a soup kitchen because, you know,
Ivan: he's only got a hundred million dollars. So, you know, he's the soup kitchen guy.
Ivan: He has to get food at the soup, you know, the food bank.
Sam: Yeah. He might actually have to think about it a little bit before self-funding an independent nation.
Ivan: Yes. Yeah, he has to. That's just so sad. These poor people.
Sam: Okay. We've got on long enough that I will not get my movie,
Sam: even though I'm falling further and further behind on the movie list.
Sam: I will mention what the movie is for next week.
Sam: Which is? It will be Judas and the Black Messiah, which was a 2021 American
Sam: biographical historical drama film.
Ivan: I didn't even, I must totally admit that I never even knew that a movie with that title existed.
Sam: Of the cast list, there's only one you would probably recognize.
Sam: Martin Sheehan was in it.
Ivan: Okay, so, I mean, it's got somebody with some name recognition.
Ivan: I have no idea this movie even existed.
Ivan: But, you know, as my pop, listen, as my pop culture surveys that I've done recently
Ivan: have shown, I know nothing.
Ivan: to be fair this is more.
Sam: A film festival movie than like a mass pop culture movie.
Ivan: Still doesn't matter you know whatever I have known nothing of this I mean like
Ivan: I grabbed the top 100 songs again recently to try to see who I do on that list
Ivan: I think I went 0 for 100 if I do any of those people so you haven't been.
Sam: Following the new Sabrina Carpenter song that came out like yesterday and the.
Ivan: Controversy over whether.
Sam: She was doing it to step on some other artist's new album.
Ivan: Okay i i i have to say i look at
Ivan: i'm not making this up i have no idea who the hell sabrina carpenter is i have
Ivan: no idea not i mean i listen if you put you put her in a listen you told me you
Ivan: told me listen i'll give you 10 million dollars identify this person right now
Ivan: i'll put four people in front of you,
Ivan: I mean, I would fail.
Ivan: If you gave me a picture array of 20 people, you told me, hey,
Ivan: pick for the only way I would win is random chance.
Sam: Okay, I sent you a link. Do you recognize the girl?
Ivan: Okay, let me see.
Sam: I'll check.
Ivan: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
Ivan: No. Not a clue. No. Not a clue. I have no idea who this person is.
Sam: Okay, cool.
Ivan: But look, Bloomberg has this really cool news quiz lately every week.
Sam: And you do well or not?
Ivan: See, I, man, the last couple of weeks, I've been at the top 5% of the news quiz.
Sam: Oh, nice.
Ivan: So I've been, I've been, I've been really hitting that news quiz really good.
Ivan: But I have no idea, not one clue who Sabrina Carpenter is. I mean, I, listen, you can.
Sam: Is this the pointed news quiz?
Ivan: Yes. Yes. Yes. I just Googled it. Yeah.
Ivan: Yeah. It's a pointed news quiz. Do you have to be a subscriber?
Ivan: There is, I don't know. It's a good question. I'm.
Sam: Looking got it you have to wager and.
Ivan: Stuff yes you also have to do some wagering it's too complicated you have to do some wagering.
Sam: Here we go.
Ivan: We're going to do this I'm.
Sam: Going to play this thing live.
Ivan: I haven't played this week hold on let me see I'm going to make my wagers I just left mine on.
Sam: The default all even.
Ivan: Okay well you can use it you could by the way there's one thing important to
Ivan: use there's the multipliers that are available so if you're very sure about
Ivan: an answer make sure to use your multiplier okay all right that helps you this.
Sam: Is too complicated i'm just going to try.
Ivan: No no complicated no okay.
Sam: So once you click it does it go away.
Ivan: What do you mean it goes away?
Sam: Like, does it go straight to the next question once you quick the answer?
Sam: Because I want to read the question aloud to people.
Sam: Okay, so go ahead and make your wager on the first one. Then I will read it and make it.
Ivan: Okay, hold on. Then I got, I got, okay, hold on, hold on.
Sam: How many questions are in this thing? Like 10, 10 questions?
Ivan: 10, 10, 10 questions. Okay, so let's go to our first question.
Ivan: Okay. All right, here we go.
Sam: Okay. President Donald Trump issued a full ban on entry into the U.S.
Sam: for citizens of 12 countries.
Sam: 10 of them are in Africa and the Middle East, but which two countries are elsewhere?
Sam: One is recovering from a major earthquake, and the other is,
Sam: according to the United Nations, one of the five places in the world with catastrophic levels of hunger.
Sam: Okay. And the choices are A, Laos and Venezuela, B, Myanmar and Haiti,
Sam: C, Afghanistan and Equatorial Guinea, D, Nicaragua and Ukraine.
Sam: We shall both make our choices. Have you made your choice?
Ivan: I did.
Sam: Okay. I'm making my choice.
Ivan: Myanmar. Yeah.
Sam: I went for the one with Venezuela in it.
Ivan: What? How did you fail that one? Myanmar and A, what the hell?
Ivan: You already for the last one?
Sam: My first instinct was the Afghanistan one.
Ivan: The earthquake! The Myanmar earthquake, remember when we pulled out the fucking relief workers?
Sam: No.
Ivan: Fuck!
Sam: 69% of people got it right, so I suck. Okay.
Ivan: Yes!
Sam: Next!
Ivan: What is the layup?
Sam: Your wager, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Geet Wilders, a far-right lawmaker,
Sam: pulled his freedom party, party woer de vr, out of his nation's... Oh, come on.
Ivan: You know the answer to this question.
Sam: Out of his four party... Okay. Have you made yours?
Sam: The choices are Poland, Germany, the Netherlands, or Denmark. Okay.
Ivan: Shit, I'm not sure. Okay, I kept thinking this was about the Polish election, and it's not.
Ivan: But based on that name, I'm going to make a choice. I think I know which one it is. You ready?
Sam: Ready.
Ivan: You made your choice? Okay, all right, made my choice.
Sam: Netherlands.
Ivan: Yeah, it's the Netherlands, yes.
Sam: Okay, next.
Ivan: Yeah, with a name like Geert Wilders, that is such a Dutch name.
Ivan: You know, that was a giveaway, just the Dutch name. I didn't realize that that happened.
Sam: Okay. Huawei's Pura X is a new foldable phone sold only in China.
Sam: The device is an opportunity for the company to showcase its recently launched
Sam: operating system. A competitor on iOS and Android called what?
Sam: The word that appears in the name derives from the Greek meaning joint.
Sam: And I say because I don't know the Greek alphabet well enough to pronounce that.
Sam: And are you ready? I'm ready.
Ivan: Okay. Okay. Well, hang on. I haven't chosen yet. I will choose now. Okay.
Sam: I chose hinge, but it's harmony.
Ivan: Yeah. I chose unison, but it's harmony. Yeah.
Sam: I figured joint is a hinge, but no.
Ivan: I mean, unison, joint. No, well.
Sam: Okay. Next.
Ivan: Yeah.
Sam: We got to get this going because we're. Yeah.
Ivan: Come on. Come on. Come on. Hey, we're going through it, but we're going through the news.
Sam: There you go. Yale University is finalizing a sale of as much as $2.5 billion
Sam: of its private equity and venture capital assets.
Sam: What is the code name of the project?
Sam: It references a fictional character who is ostentatiously wealthy and loves
Sam: someone named Daisy. This one's an easy one.
Sam: At least for me. You got it, Yvonne?
Ivan: Fuck, I'm not totally sure. But I think I know it. I think it's, yeah. Okay.
Sam: Have you chosen? Oh, the choices are Project Gatsby. Project Clampett,
Sam: Project Warbucks, or Project Scrooge.
Ivan: I got it wrong.
Sam: It's Gatsby.
Ivan: Yeah, I knew that.
Sam: It's from the great Gatsby, which I was supposed to read in high school and didn't. Okay. Next.
Sam: Sotheby's will soon auction off a black Hermes bag with gold hardware.
Sam: It was commissioned in 1984 for which fashion icon?
Sam: A, Jackie Kennedy. B, Princess Diana.
Sam: C, Grace Kelly. D. Jane Birkin.
Ivan: I'm going to guess it's Princess.
Sam: You know, you should say it before I say it, but I was going to make the same
Sam: guess, Princess Diana, which was wrong. It was Birkin.
Ivan: Fuck. Follow me both. Okay. Well, that's one that I put down to five points
Ivan: because I knew I had no idea.
Sam: I did know the Birkin was a kind of bag, and I thought about that.
Sam: No, I know the Birkin's a bag.
Ivan: But I didn't know who the fuck they made it for. I have no idea.
Ivan: The hell am I supposed to know?
Sam: Okay. The newly elected president of a certain country said his first task would
Sam: be to avoid imposing martial law again.
Ivan: Okay, I know which one.
Sam: Which country is it? The Philippines, South Korea, Thailand, or Malaysia?
Ivan: Okay.
Sam: Okay, I'm ready. One, two, three. South Korea.
Ivan: South Korea.
Sam: Yes. Next.
Sam: Taylor Swift acquired the rights to her first six albums from a private equity firm.
Sam: In her announcement, Swift wrote, This was a business deal to them,
Sam: but I really felt like they saw it for what it was for me.
Sam: My first tattoo might just be a huge blank in the middle of my forehead.
Sam: Which symbol, both the name and the logo of the firm, fills the blank?
Ivan: Fuck. I don't know.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: You do?
Sam: Pick one. Pick one.
Ivan: Okay, I picked one.
Sam: The choices are Anchor, Cerebus, Shamrock, or Scooter. I am picking Shamrock, and I am right.
Ivan: Yes, you're right.
Sam: Did you get it wrong?
Ivan: No, I got it wrong. Man, this is the worst I've done in this thing in the last
Ivan: three weeks. This is ridiculous.
Sam: Okay, here we go. You know, I started out missing a few I should have gotten.
Sam: Okay, Carol Narrocki, a nationalist backed by Trump, won a presidential election in a European country.
Sam: After the victory, the president-elect said, we will not allow blank to hold
Sam: all the power and have a monopoly of evil power that does not care about public finances.
Sam: The name of which prime minister who wields the majority of the political influence
Sam: in Narwaki's country fills the blank? A.
Sam: Nikusir Dan. B. Alexander Lukashenko.
Sam: C. Donald Tusk. D. Viktor Orban.
Ivan: Well, I know it's not C and D. But I'm not sure.
Sam: You know, you shouldn't give me hints before I've chosen.
Ivan: Fuck.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: I'm going to make a choice.
Sam: I'm going for A. It was Donald Tusk. It was one of the ones you said it wasn't.
Ivan: What? How could it be Donald Tusk?
Sam: Ah. Okay.
Sam: I was going to pick Tusk until you said something.
Ivan: Donald Tusk was a fake fucking character from goddamn House of Cards.
Sam: Next. Okay. Sanofi agreed to buy a U.S. biopharma group for at least $9.1 billion.
Sam: What type of drawing made with ferric ferocyanide appears in the name of the company?
Ivan: Jesus Christ. Obviously, I've paid no attention to the news this week with Elon
Ivan: and Donald going at it, okay? I have no idea what the fuck this is.
Ivan: I'm going to take a guess at one of these, but I have no idea.
Sam: I'm going now, and I am picking—oh, the choices were tattoo,
Sam: stipple, lithograph, and blueprint, by the way.
Ivan: All right, I'm going to pick a choice.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: No, and I got that one wrong, too.
Sam: I picked lithograph because I thought— My God. I thought blueprint was too obvious
Sam: and also ferric would be reddish.
Ivan: So did I!
Sam: Not blue. We're not doing well.
Ivan: We are not doing well. We're not. We're doing terrible.
Sam: After 16 years, comedian Mark Maron's pioneering podcast that helped define
Sam: the medium is coming to an end.
Sam: Which abbreviation is used in the title of the show? WTF?
Sam: TTYL? OMG? Or TLDR?
Ivan: I have no idea either.
Sam: This one's an easy one. It's WTF. done. Okay.
Sam: Oh, I shouldn't have said that before you had indicated you had chosen.
Ivan: That's the one I was going to choose, but you know. Okay. So we did poorly.
Sam: See results.
Ivan: Actually, you know what? Many people did poorly this week.
Sam: My final score was zero.
Ivan: Okay. My final score was 32.5.
Ivan: I scored better than 38% of the other players so i did not i was not this this
Ivan: was not a colossal total failure but this is about the worst i've done in this
Ivan: quiz in the in the last few weeks okay.
Sam: Well we have wasted a good deal of time on that i could have.
Ivan: Done my movie a lot of the news a.
Sam: Lot of the news that we probably would not have talked about.
Ivan: Otherwise we would not have talked these are things that we would not have talked
Ivan: about and so we just covered it so there you go.
Sam: Yes there you go okay let's take Take a break and then I guess we'll probably
Sam: just start off on Musk versus Trump. Everyone's eager.
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: Everyone's eager. Okay, here we go. Here's a break. Breaky, breaky, breaky.
Ivan: Do, do, do. This podcast is sponsored by AlexMzilla.com.
Sam: Youtube channel is a l e x m x e l a dot com Yes.
Sam: Do, do, do.
Sam: Do, do, do. Okay.
Ivan: Do, do, do, do, do.
Sam: Very exciting. I will note that for,
Sam: we have had a viewer on our live stream for the most of the show so far,
Sam: but it was my son Alex on one of,
Sam: logged in as me on like my iPad or something.
Sam: And so he's been commenting things like, oh, no, that's unfortunate.
Sam: And a frowny face on things we were saying earlier in the show.
Ivan: There you go. Perfect.
Sam: And it shows up as comments from me because he was logged in as me.
Ivan: But you're upset at yourself.
Sam: I am. I am. Anyway, there was one brief moment with two people watching,
Sam: but that didn't last very long.
Sam: Anyway. Anyway. Anyway, so Elon and Donald having a good old time this week.
Ivan: They, they, they are just, they're, they're, they're getting along really well.
Ivan: I think that they are. It's, it's just amazing how you see titans of industry
Ivan: in our nation, our world getting along well.
Ivan: in such a great way, publicly, with the leaders, the president of our nation,
Ivan: solving through the nation's problems, Sam.
Ivan: It's just, it's wonderful to see. It's amazing.
Ivan: And also the respect that our president showed to the visiting chancellor of Germany.
Ivan: It's just so, so great as he was asking him whether he was disappointed that,
Ivan: you know, that the Nazis were defeated.
Sam: Right. Yes. He couldn't possibly understand why that wouldn't be a sad thing
Sam: for the German chancellor.
Ivan: Oh, Jesus Christ.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: So this whole thing started, as far as I can tell, between—well,
Ivan: if you go through the background story, there was obviously a lot of tension.
Sam: Yeah, as we talked about last week, you know, the fact that Elon was leaving
Sam: was not exactly unwelcome for the rest of the Trump team.
Ivan: Right. It is very clear that they were very, very, very ready for him to be gone.
Ivan: great for him to be gone you know there is this guy who has come to the fore
Ivan: as apparently one of the key guys that was driving this and one of the,
Ivan: biggest things that he pushed against was the nomination of the NASA administrator, okay?
Ivan: All of a sudden, right after the farewell meeting at the White House,
Ivan: the guy who was Elon's guy to head NASA was withdrawn.
Ivan: Jared Isigman was the guy that was nominated there.
Ivan: And this guy that I guess I not really paid attention to before,
Ivan: this advisor named the last name Gore, G-O-R.
Sam: Oh, not Al Gore.
Ivan: Not G-O-R, not G-O-R-E, okay? He apparently, Sergio Gore, okay?
Sam: Okay, yep.
Ivan: Sergio apparently had a very close relationship with Trump,
Ivan: and it seemed to have been rooted from right after January 6th where he apparently
Ivan: was a guy that helped them publish books and many books from allies of Trump after that.
Ivan: So he seemed to have been a key supporter of Trump right at the moment when
Ivan: a lot of people seemed to have walked away from him.
Ivan: It says here that he co-founded Winning Team Publishing with Donald Trump Jr.,
Ivan: The imprint publishes books by Trump and his allies and put much-needed cash
Ivan: in Trump's pocket during his isolation after the January 6th riot at the Capitol.
Ivan: So this guy was very close in with him.
Ivan: He was a frequent guest at Mar-a-Lago. He was a tough fundraiser in the pack.
Ivan: And this guy despised Elon. And he was very hell-bent against Isaacman,
Ivan: in large part because there were records to show that this guy was a big Democratic donor.
Ivan: Jared isaac man okay yeah he had been a
Ivan: very big democratic donor okay by the way which
Ivan: by the way donald trump also was but okay let's not get
Ivan: into those details but you know there's something that's happened with a lot
Ivan: of these people with money but so he was as a big democratic donor and he was
Ivan: like coming up to trump saying hey just get this guy out but but wait wait because
Ivan: this is by the way they're saying that this is the biggest root of how this tension started okay,
Ivan: Gore was the one that was going to Trump and basically just saying,
Ivan: you need to get rid of Isaac. You need to get rid of Isaac.
Ivan: And he kept showing him how he had donated to the Democrats.
Ivan: And he kept showing him that and that and that.
Ivan: And by the way, so this got to and and in the meeting that happened at the White House,
Ivan: where we heard that Marco Rubio had gone toe to toe with with Musk,
Ivan: it went unreported that this guy also did. big time, okay?
Ivan: And so that went unreported. So
Ivan: the role that this guy had in terms of fomenting this Musk Trump schism.
Ivan: Was far more significant than was previously known, okay?
Ivan: And so, look, to Elon Musk, what the fuck could be more important than having
Ivan: the NASA administrator be a key ally of his?
Ivan: Given the, if you look at his holdings right now, number one holding that he has is SpaceX,
Ivan: okay that his his the
Ivan: value his net worth depends a
Ivan: lot more on spacex than it does on tesla stock
Ivan: okay according to reports that i've seen so
Ivan: all of a sudden this guy yanking that
Ivan: guy out was what was a brutal blow and then you know a lot of other people that
Ivan: you know musk is out The knives have come out like left and right and precipitated
Ivan: that, you know, with this big, beautiful bill,
Ivan: Doge not bringing in the savings that were expected.
Ivan: But not just that, the fact that they the big, beautiful bill,
Ivan: you know, it goes totally the opposite way of where they had come in three months
Ivan: ago and will add to the deficit like crazy.
Ivan: And so, you know, Elon just started railing into this.
Sam: Although Republicans, by the way, are still denying that and saying the CBO
Sam: is full of it. It's not accurate.
Sam: Ignore them. There will be so much growth.
Ivan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever. Right.
Ivan: That was the same bullshit that they said back when they passed the last tax
Ivan: cut in 2018 and the deficit went through the roof.
Ivan: right because the cbo is
Ivan: full of shit but but so so you know and and the startup it escalated quite quickly
Ivan: i understand that by the way trump
Ivan: fired all the doge people uh he cleared them all out as of yesterday i.
Sam: Hadn't heard that is that new today.
Ivan: No that was yesterday yesterday trump ordered everybody at doge fired everybody all of them okay.
Sam: I hadn't seen that yet.
Ivan: Yeah i mean i i shared that on the slack let me find it but there was but there
Ivan: was a story specifically that that,
Ivan: literally everybody that they told everybody at doge to clear out get the fuck out what.
Sam: I saw is that they had cleared out their desks in anticipation of that,
Sam: but that it hadn't actually happened yet.
Ivan: No, no. But what I got is that there was an order that they got there and saw
Ivan: that their desks had been cleared out.
Ivan: So I guess we've got conflicting reports on that.
Sam: Find the link.
Ivan: I gotta find... Ah, fuck. Jesus Christ, so much shit. Da-da. Da-da-da-da.
Ivan: Da-da-da.
Ivan: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Ivan: Fair, no. Art Fizer, no. No. No.
Ivan: No. Let's see. Okay. Well, I can't find it right now.
Ivan: Okay. I cannot find it right now, but I had one report that I got that basically
Ivan: they had told everybody to clear out. Okay? Okay.
Sam: And look, it would not be surprising.
Ivan: All the staffers. Right. That was a retaliation that was said to have happened yesterday.
Sam: I will say conflicting reports, like you said, because I have also heard that.
Ivan: Oh, here it is. Here it is. It's a Midas touch. Reported it.
Ivan: Doge staffers also had their desks cleaned out and packed last night in case
Ivan: they were all fired by Trump.
Ivan: Oh, in case they were all fired by Trump. Okay. So I misread that.
Ivan: You read that correctly.
Ivan: I just got the Doge HQ. I'm the last man here. The place cleared out as a precaution. Okay.
Sam: Right. Because I have also read that many of these are still in place and actually
Sam: still taking action as of yesterday.
Sam: And even with Elon gone, the team he put in place is still going forward,
Sam: but under somebody else.
Ivan: Yeah, but that's all bullshit. All the agencies are now rebelling to this. As a matter of fact.
Sam: There's a story that— Yes, they can now push back more effectively.
Ivan: But it's not just push back. They're actively undoing a whole bunch of the things
Ivan: that were done. There was a story.
Sam: They were rehiring people because they fired too many people, et cetera.
Ivan: They were rehiring people at agencies across the board where they had been fired
Ivan: that they just realized that we just can't continue without them.
Ivan: And they were actively hiring them all back.
Ivan: Aside from there was a bill that's advancing in Congress, like right now with
Ivan: bipartisan support also, to restore all the cuts that were made to. The weather service.
Sam: Right. Okay.
Ivan: And that one's also advancing as well, because basically people realize that
Ivan: we are right now, Doge has made us, created significant blind spots in our monitoring
Ivan: of major weather events.
Sam: Right. And I suspect, like, all it'll take is like one major event to do the
Sam: same kind of stuff for FEMA, because they've also gutted FEMA. Yeah.
Ivan: Yeah, I mean, FEMA is in the same, in the same.
Sam: Although so far, like we've got things like Donald Trump denying emergency relief
Sam: to various places that have had issues, you know.
Ivan: And these are places that are that are with Republicans.
Sam: Yeah, red state.
Ivan: I mean, you have Republican government. You've had Republican governors asking for for help from FEMA.
Ivan: And they basically tell, fuck you, like right now.
Ivan: So so that's that's been going on. But listen, the way that the bottom line...
Ivan: You know, Elon yesterday went, basically said that Trump's a pedo.
Ivan: He said that he's all over the Epstein files, and that's why they're not being released. Okay?
Ivan: He also said he's starting a third party. He also said— Yes.
Sam: He did say that as well.
Ivan: He threatened to decommission Dragon as well, which he apparently backed off of. Okay. What else?
Sam: Because Donald was threatening to remove all the federal contracts from SpaceX as well.
Ivan: Oh, yeah, right. Donald threatened to cancel all federal contracts with Elon Musk.
Ivan: What the fuck else? I mean, there was like so many things that they threw at each other.
Sam: Here are a few things to keep in mind for both of these people.
Sam: First of all, neither one of these people has any affinity or care about the truth.
Sam: It's just not part of their... So, like, if they say something,
Sam: it is not because the thing is true.
Sam: It is because they think saying it will have the effect that they want or will
Sam: lead things in the direction that they want.
Sam: So, you know, start with Elon and tying Trump to the Epstein files.
Sam: So, first of all, Trump has been tied to the Epstein files for years.
Sam: This has been published in things that have already been released. Okay.
Ivan: True. But.
Sam: Let me just say this. You know, they're, you know,
Sam: And there's video of him and Epstein together. There's video of him talking
Sam: about Epstein's predilection for young girls.
Sam: All of this exists. All of this has been out there for years.
Sam: It's known that he'd made trips to a stupid island or whatever. All of this is out there.
Sam: The rumor mongering is, of course, there's something more substantial that directly
Sam: ties Donald Trump to nefarious activities.
Sam: So let's be clear. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, so let me finish this point.
Ivan: Well, no, but I want to be clear about what that is, about the extra stuff.
Ivan: The extra stuff that's been talked about and that there was controversy yesterday
Ivan: because Kash Patel went on Rogan and said one thing, and Pam Bondi said something different.
Ivan: It's about videos, specifically about videos with underage girls and who the
Ivan: hell's appearing on them.
Ivan: Kash Patel went and said, oh, no, there's no such videos that are bad.
Ivan: Pam Bondi said, well, we can't release these videos because they show all these
Ivan: underage girls, and we don't want to victimize them again.
Sam: Yes so the point i was making about
Sam: musk is that the fact
Sam: that he tweeted that does not indicate that
Sam: he actually knows anything one way or the other true maybe he does maybe he
Sam: doesn't it just indicates that he thinks saying that would have an effect like
Sam: okay now the truth of what may or may not exist is an entirely separate question
Sam: i'm just saying that to to elon musk that's irrelevant.
Sam: What's relevant is that saying that would have an impact.
Ivan: But here is the thing, right? Three months ago, in February,
Ivan: right, Pam Bondi invited all these people that she supposedly gave the Epstein
Ivan: files to. And what did she hand them?
Ivan: You remember? Okay, I remember. Empty binders.
Sam: Oh, yes, I do remember that.
Ivan: And they marched out of the White House with these binders that had nothing in them. Nothing.
Ivan: Then you get this report that the New York office, I think of the,
Ivan: I can't remember which agency, I can't remember it was the attorney general,
Ivan: basically had an entire crew of people scouring through these files. Okay?
Ivan: Scouring and scouring and scouring to supposedly to to
Ivan: redact to do whatever in order to publish the files and nothing still has been
Ivan: released okay now now remember they promised promised we are going to release
Ivan: these and then all of a sudden three months later we've got dick nothing and.
Sam: I will also remind people of the lawsuit that was about to go forward right
Sam: before the 2016 election with the person who claims that Donald Trump and Epstein
Sam: did something with her when she was 13.
Ivan: Right.
Sam: And that was squashed.
Ivan: That's probably another cat, one of these catch and kill things.
Sam: Yeah. And that was withdrawn like weeks before the election.
Ivan: The election.
Sam: And under sort of, the person in question backed off, didn't want to do it anymore, blah, blah, blah.
Sam: And she could have been scared. She could have been bribed.
Sam: there's all kinds of reasons or or maybe
Sam: she realized that she was lying
Sam: and there was nothing to it and she better get off we don't know
Sam: but but yeah like look this all this
Sam: kind of stuff has been out there for years the musk's point in doing this was
Sam: just just to sort of turn the screwdriver for donald trump and and and ratchet
Sam: up this now i saw i have not confirmed myself but I saw somebody post something this morning that says,
Sam: Musk has now removed that post.
Ivan: Well, I'm not on X, so I don't know.
Sam: Yeah, I'm not on X either.
Ivan: Oh, yeah, remove that post. Like, yeah, nobody saw it, Sam. That solves the
Ivan: problem. Nobody saw that.
Sam: Well, the question on all of this is, are they going to de-escalate and make friends again?
Ivan: Well, listen, I saw Donald Trump, like, on Air Force One, I guess he was coming
Ivan: back fucking Mar-a-Lago again,
Ivan: basically saying something like he refused to engage reporters' questions about the...
Ivan: Tiff kept saying, oh, I wish him well. Oh, I wish him well.
Sam: Right. Whereas 24 hours previously, he had been going...
Ivan: I'm fucking canceling all of you. Go fuck yourself. Fuck you.
Ivan: And all of a sudden, I wish him well.
Sam: And he'd been going through the rounds calling every cable news anchor he could
Sam: think of to trash musk some of them yeah so he's pushing.
Ivan: Him well 24 hours later what the fuck is going what what the fuck happened behind the scenes sam.
Sam: So that is bizarre well there are a couple things that i think first of all
Sam: i think musk was hoping that a significant portion of sort of the MAGA base would take his side.
Sam: And it looks like that portion is relatively small.
Sam: Like, all of the congressional Republicans are like, yeah, we hope this goes
Sam: away, but if Bush comes to shove, we're on Trump. We're on Team Trump.
Sam: There was a poll that came out that showed, like, Musk's support was relatively
Sam: small amongst Republicans.
Ivan: It was, I mean, it was, like, Republicans, the poll, But, but,
Ivan: but, but, but this poll seemed to have not been like yesterday or this week. Okay.
Sam: I understood it was a.
Ivan: Let me double check. Let me see. Let me double check because I'm looking at,
Ivan: I'm looking it up right now.
Ivan: The number that came up was 6%. Okay.
Ivan: According to this versus 71 for Trump and 12, which basically neither.
Ivan: Yesterday at 10, 12 a.m. Let me double check to make sure that this poll was a,
Ivan: cat turns lined up with the president apparently prompting must to unfollow
Ivan: him but he's not alone full release by you govern the wake of conflagration
Ivan: so yes it was actually time um yes so they they it showed that must get six percent and also.
Sam: I think when push comes to shove on the threats they were making against each
Sam: other yeah to use trump's own terminology trump has the cards points.
Sam: You know, Trump has more leverage against Musk than the other way around.
Ivan: Oh, totally. Because Trump has the force of the federal government.
Ivan: But this is the problem that Musk created for himself, okay?
Sam: Well, yeah, but look, I will point out, I will point out just for the record,
Sam: that many of the things Trump and Trump's team are threatening are questionably
Sam: legal and would undoubtedly end up for years in court.
Sam: But we know this administration doesn't care about that, so it wouldn't matter.
Sam: So we've got the threat of the unilateral cancellation of all the SpaceX contracts.
Sam: Okay, well, these are contracts. They have been signed. There are provisions
Sam: in them for how and where you cancel.
Sam: There's also federal government regulations on how things have to follow processes
Sam: and can't just be arbitrary decisions by the president.
Sam: Now, as I said, Donald Trump clearly doesn't care about any of that.
Sam: He could try to cancel it anyway. And of course, it'll end up in court.
Sam: But the point is, he could cause extreme disruption right now.
Sam: We've also got a number of Trump's advisors saying, hey,
Sam: you should investigate Elon Musk's initial visa into the United States and whether
Sam: there were irregularities into him overstaying the visa or lying on the visa
Sam: or anything else like that.
Ivan: Can we revoke bus citizenship?
Sam: Yeah, because while he is a naturalized citizenship, now if it turned out that
Sam: that was predicated on fraud, you can revoke his citizenship and deport him.
Sam: You know, there are also Trump advisers suggesting that skip canceling the contracts, just nationalize.
Ivan: Nationalize SpaceX. Well, fuck, we've said that a year before.
Ivan: I ain't agreeing with any of these assholes.
Sam: But again, questionable legality.
Sam: Although for the nationalizing SpaceX, there is apparently, and people were
Sam: talking about this earlier in the
Sam: Ukraine war. There are laws where the president can basically take U.S.
Sam: manufacturing capability that is significant to national security and take over
Sam: in one way or another, or at least mandate what it does.
Ivan: A news story in the Washington Post, okay, summarizing some of the stuff that's been going on.
Ivan: Summarizing some, because I mentioned a lot of things that Musk said about Trump.
Ivan: Trump said, rattled in the wake of Elon Musk's public attacks,
Ivan: this is inside the battles that shattered Trump and Musk's alliance,
Ivan: okay, is a news story there.
Ivan: And a parent called for his impeachment, because by the way,
Ivan: Musk called for Trump's impeachment as well, for God's sakes,
Ivan: okay? Trump worked the phones, the briefing, close confidence,
Ivan: and casual acquaintances alike.
Ivan: His former ally was a big-time drug addict, he called him.
Sam: Yes, yeah.
Ivan: Trump said at one point, as he tried to make sense of must behavior,
Ivan: according to a person with knowledge to call, who liked other interviews for
Ivan: his story on the condition of anonymity.
Ivan: But he called him, man, he called him a fucking big-time drug addict. And by the way.
Sam: Trump has— And we talked about the New York Times article from last week, last week. Yeah.
Ivan: Yeah, but Trump has a big issue with addiction, okay? Yes, because of his brother.
Ivan: His brother died, you know, with a huge alcohol addiction. It's the reason why Trump doesn't drink.
Ivan: So this for him isn't some, you know, it's something that is a...
Sam: Is actually personal to him.
Ivan: Yes, totally, okay?
Sam: Well, almost everything is personal to Donald Trump. That's how he lives his
Sam: life. But this specifically, he cares about this issue because of the personal
Sam: experience in his family.
Ivan: Yes. So, I mean, yes, Trump definitely has far a lot more ammunition that he could hurt Musk with.
Ivan: And the reality is that even if he can't cancel immediately a SpaceX contract.
Sam: Musk can make some noise on X. Musk could make some mischief with SpaceX, but if he does...
Sam: the feds have all kinds of ways to retaliate and deal with that.
Ivan: Um let me give you one example right now look let me tell you something you've
Ivan: had all these starship launches that have been,
Ivan: chaotic okay that all of a sudden with what he did going into the administration
Ivan: he had basically despite the investigations.
Sam: Of those and killed any.
Ivan: Yes like there was movement to.
Sam: Further regulate and those died. But they can come back.
Ivan: Guess. Take a wild guess. You think that now after he called for his impeachment
Ivan: or whatever, do you think that these people are going to back off on him?
Ivan: I'll tell you something. I'm going to say this right now.
Ivan: I bet you there isn't another Starship launch anytime soon.
Ivan: They're going to stop him from launches now. They're going to say, fuck you, no.
Ivan: You've blown up five of these. we need to do a thorough investigation.
Sam: I could easily see that I mean honestly that's the prudent thing to do anyway
Sam: that would have been the prudent.
Ivan: Thing to do but the point is that they.
Sam: Had if he was still in the good graces of the administration they would have
Sam: just gone full speed ahead,
Sam: or let SpaceX do whatever they wanted to yeah look and this is why I think you're
Sam: going to get some sort of truce, but it'll be a truce under,
Sam: it will be Trump winning this debate.
Sam: Or at the very least, like this truce may be just Elon decides to be quiet for a while.
Sam: Rather, you know, because he realizes he's lost.
Ivan: Yeah. I mean, you're right.
Ivan: I mean, I don't see, the problem that Musk has right now is that there is no
Ivan: winning scenario here. in any direction.
Ivan: Here's a fucking problem that Musk's got.
Ivan: The people that used to be his biggest supporters in the past were all these
Ivan: people that were all in on him because, hey, electric cars, solar power,
Ivan: you know, you're helping the future, blah, blah, blah.
Sam: Hey, those don't sound like maggots.
Ivan: And he went to all those people. Exactly. And he went and gave the middle finger
Ivan: to all those fucking people across the world.
Ivan: Okay? He gave him the fucking middle finger to back this shit.
Ivan: Now, as everybody that goes and tries to make a deal with Donald winds up getting
Ivan: fucked, as I totally expected and predicted,
Ivan: okay? He was going to get fucked.
Sam: Almost everybody did. It wasn't your unique prediction. No.
Sam: The question was what the time frame would be. like no but i.
Ivan: I i did give it 90 days okay.
Sam: No i know you said it was going to be right on there were a
Sam: few people that gave it like short time frames i believe on our prediction show
Sam: you said like like around this time i said i thought he would make it to the
Sam: second half of the year he almost did almost but not quite uh you know so you
Sam: know but like there were a lot
Sam: of people said there is no way this relationship can last for the long term.
Sam: And there was a betting market on how long it would take before they fell apart.
Sam: But, you know, there weren't a lot of people saying they'll still be buddy buddies in four years.
Sam: Now, who knows? They may make up. They may all be like shaking hands again.
Ivan: I mean, Trump has made up with Trump has made up with people that he was publicly feuded like crazy.
Ivan: I mean, look at Marco Rubio in the fucking State Department, for God's sakes.
Sam: Yes.
Ivan: So, you know, it's possible.
Ivan: But I think in the short term right now, all of these, you know,
Ivan: Musk played this hand, played it heavily, and economically,
Ivan: all it's done is give him loss after loss.
Sam: Yeah, I think that's your key.
Sam: And I don't know, he may fight on, he may do more stuff, But I kind of suspect
Sam: that at a certain point, he realizes that he thought he had a play that he didn't.
Sam: He thought there'd be all kinds of people rallying to his defense,
Sam: that he'd be able to split the Republican caucus, that he might be able to kill
Sam: the big, beautiful bill.
Sam: Now, the big, beautiful bill has issues in the Senate anyway. It may die regardless.
Ivan: Listen, I don't know if he's killing the big, beautiful bill.
Ivan: I think the problem with the big, beautiful bill is a problem that is built
Ivan: into the big, beautiful bill. OK, all right.
Sam: That's what I say. It has a problem. It may die anyway, but I don't think it's Elon.
Ivan: Right. It's not Elon killing it. OK.
Ivan: But again, but here's the one thing about this. OK.
Ivan: And how these coalitions are and how the hell it is.
Ivan: Despite the fact that we're saying, hey, OK, the Republicans have stood by Donald.
Ivan: OK. But here's the reality. in the political environment we are in,
Ivan: when it's only 71%, that's not good.
Ivan: That's not good. It's only 71% of them.
Ivan: That's, that's, that's, that's, I mean, you lost 30, you lost 29% of them in this fight.
Ivan: So, while 71% of Republicans is strong enough to maintain, you know,
Ivan: all these people that you need, like the House or whatever, align nominally
Ivan: in terms of like, well, you're not getting impeached or whatever.
Ivan: Losing that percentage is enough to derail a bill like this.
Sam: Well, especially the bill was in trouble anyway. Like it barely passed in the House.
Sam: And well, of course, it barely passed in the House. That's what the margin is
Sam: like, you know, but right.
Sam: But in the Senate, right off of day one, there were people, there were Republican
Sam: senators saying they couldn't vote for it. it needed to change.
Sam: They needed to adjust X, Y, Z.
Sam: And the problem with that is the things that need to be adjusted to get one
Sam: set of people loses another set of people.
Sam: And so now I kind of feel like in the end, they'll pull out something.
Sam: Now, what that something will be, I don't know. But like, I feel like whatever it is.
Ivan: It's not going to be a big, beautiful bill. Let me tell you something,
Ivan: whatever it is, not going to be a big, beautiful bill.
Ivan: And it's precisely because of what you said. Okay. The biggest problem with
Ivan: the big, beautiful bill is that,
Ivan: Any of the concessions that you
Ivan: need to make on this bill to get it passed lose you way too many people.
Ivan: You can see to the hawks more, you lose a whole bunch of moderates.
Ivan: They're like, look, we can't vote for this. Okay?
Sam: Right.
Ivan: You go and you try to raise taxes, that's another fucking group of people big that you lose.
Ivan: Any way you go and you push this damn bill because it's so big and so weirdly,
Ivan: you wind up losing large swats of people that say, fuck you, we can't do this.
Sam: Well, and this is also why congressional people were trying to tell Donald Trump,
Sam: don't do one big, beautiful bill, do a series of smaller bills.
Ivan: Do a series of smaller bills.
Sam: Because then you can get different coalitions for these different things and
Sam: maybe pass them independently.
Sam: Whereas if you roll it up together, there's always something that is a breaker
Sam: for somebody. Now, you know, again.
Ivan: I'll tell you one thing that I just saw this week, a group of of of I believe
Ivan: I don't think it was just House people.
Ivan: I think it was senators and House congressmen basically were making a big push
Ivan: to strip from the bill all these cuts that were being done to for things that were from the IRA.
Ivan: because they knew that their districts were going to get destroyed by these, okay?
Sam: Right.
Ivan: So there is a big push to strip all that shit out because they're like,
Ivan: damn it, what are we fucking doing?
Sam: Yeah, there were specifically reports of House members who had voted for the
Sam: bill asking their Senate colleagues to please take this stuff out that they voted for.
Ivan: That they voted for! Fucking idiots!
Sam: For exactly the reason you're talking about. Well, they needed to get on record
Sam: as supporting Trump's policies, but then they want to make sure that it doesn't
Sam: actually take it to effect.
Ivan: There's one provision that would basically make it that no foreign person would want to buy any U.S.
Ivan: investments because of the tax implications that they added to it. It was nuts.
Ivan: They they put so much shit that is toxic in this bill.
Ivan: OK, it's this bill is it's just ridiculously bad.
Ivan: And, you know, the funny thing is when you get somebody, of course,
Ivan: not surprising, like Marjorie Taylor Greene saying, oh, this thing was in there.
Ivan: And then she says, oh, I never saw that. I'm like, so you didn't read the bill.
Sam: To be fair, both sides have yelled at the other side for decades about not reading
Sam: the bill because that is a legislative reality in how these things are constructed.
Ivan: Come on, man. You've got a fucking staff of people to go and like parse and
Ivan: summarize and go through this fucking thing in order to make sure you know what
Ivan: the fuck is in there or not. You're not sitting.
Ivan: I mean, I understand how difficult it is for one person to read it.
Ivan: But that's why you have the staff.
Sam: You split up the 1,800 pages. Everybody gets 100 pages and you make sure to
Sam: flag to your principal the things that matter.
Ivan: Exactly. But these people don't even do that anymore, Sam. They don't do that anymore.
Sam: Well, I would also say...
Ivan: Some of them.
Sam: Some of them, yeah. But I would also say there's an issue that I don't necessarily
Sam: believe the protestations that they didn't know.
Sam: I'm sure in some cases they don't know. I'm sure in some cases they actually
Sam: didn't know because Marjorie Taylor Greene is an idiot.
Sam: And so I'm sure I'm sure she didn't. OK, but I'm sure there are plenty of other
Sam: people who protest. Oh, I had no idea.
Ivan: Oh, and they knew. Yeah. No, no, no. I'm with you. No, I'm with you. Yeah.
Sam: I mean, just like all of these Congress people who are like,
Sam: oh, did Donald Trump tweet something? I had no idea.
Sam: You know, he didn't tweet something, a truth, a truth. Well,
Sam: now he truths it, but like, you know.
Ivan: Well, well, let's call it a tweet anyway, because that he was,
Ivan: what is a, what is something that you post on X supposed to be called?
Sam: A shit?
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: I don't know.
Ivan: Sounds perfect to me.
Sam: No, the, but yeah, that was another interesting part of this whole thing is
Sam: like people are talking about how they were going at each other on their respective
Sam: social media platforms.
Sam: You know? You have the two billionaires each with their own captured social media that,
Sam: undoubtedly are rigged to boost their own posts, etc, etc.
Ivan: No! No way! Nah! Come on! Nah!
Sam: Elon would never do that. Donald would never do that. No, no,
Sam: no, but OK, here one more one more Elon related thing before we take a break
Sam: and move on. I don't even know what else.
Sam: Like, well, we'll see about the last segment.
Sam: But there was a lot of reaction and then counter reaction to a certain group
Sam: of I'm going to say Democrats, but it also included never Trumpers and such.
Sam: to this whole feud going, enemy of my enemy is my friend. Let's figure out how
Sam: to make nice with Elon and bring him back into the fold and figure out how to use him.
Ivan: On video, I am showing me like giving both my middle fingers to this idea.
Ivan: I mean, fuck Elon. I don't care.
Ivan: I mean, well, listen, I hated Elon before he tied himself to MAGA.
Ivan: So I hated him as a MAGA. I still hate him now. Fuck him.
Sam: And look, here's the thing. He is, it is one thing to cheer on and say,
Sam: hey, it's great that they're fighting amongst themselves.
Sam: Sure. Stand back and let them do it. It is quite another thing to say, oh,
Sam: okay, in that case, let's work with Elon and see how we can make it so that
Sam: he will like us and support us instead.
Sam: And I think this ties to the more general question.
Sam: There's been a more general debate amongst Democrats that we've touched on here
Sam: before about whether the right way forward is to try to change Democratic positions
Sam: to try to convert marginal Trump voters and try to bring over,
Sam: you bring back the white middle class, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Sam: Like, let's let's, you know, let's throw the trans people under the bus.
Sam: Let's moderate on immigration.
Ivan: Like I said before, the problem with all of these is not the it's not it's not
Ivan: the Democratic positions.
Ivan: The problem is that the Democrats never had an effective way of how to counter
Ivan: the straw man that that that Republicans made.
Ivan: Because when when when when the Republicans went anti-trans,
Ivan: what the Democrats did and mostly did was nothing.
Ivan: They didn't say they said, but they didn't go and combat the misinformation
Ivan: that they were giving on all of this.
Ivan: Well, instead of like going, I'm like, oh, my God, men, women's,
Ivan: you know, women's courts are being invaded by men.
Ivan: You should have gone and had an ad that said, guys, they're talking about five athletes out of 80,000.
Ivan: OK, because that's the reality. This isn't real.
Ivan: OK, well, true. And how they just ignored it. The same thing with abortion rights.
Sam: Yeah, we've had this.
Ivan: Again, they go, oh, the Democrats are pro-abortion. And they're like,
Ivan: no, idiots, we're not pro-abortion. We're pro-women's rights.
Ivan: But they don't scream it at the top of the lungs to oppose this misinformation.
Sam: And so the problem.
Ivan: Again, is not opposition. The problem is that the Democrats sit there and like,
Ivan: you know what? Oh, we're going to pass a great bill, okay?
Ivan: We're going to do this, and we're going to legislate, and we're going to do this or whatever.
Ivan: And, you know, with this walkie bill, which, by the way, has many benefits, it's going to be great.
Ivan: But the reality is that, unfortunately, the human reality is that most people
Ivan: don't see that shit that is the real shit that actually helps them live their
Ivan: lives, that is done behind the scenes.
Ivan: They don't really have the appreciation for it.
Sam: We've talked about this before. I think part of it, you're absolutely right,
Sam: combat the misinformation. But I think it's fundamentally more than that.
Sam: And I thought there was a brief window where I thought the Democrats were past
Sam: this and were going to do this right, and then they sort of retreated to their old ways, which is...
Sam: You can't retreat from these culture war issues and be like,
Sam: you know, oh, like, they're talking about trans people, so we want to hide and not talk about.
Ivan: Like, this issue. No, no, no, you combat the misinformation head on.
Sam: But not only do you combat the misinformation, you vigorously defend your own position.
Ivan: And why?
Sam: You talk about why you are right and they are wrong, you know,
Sam: because for years and years and years, and this goes back, I'd say, all the way to, like,
Sam: I want to say the 70s on lots of issues where the Democrats sort of decided that the general,
Sam: or maybe it's the 80s, maybe it's after Ronald Reagan, where the Democrats were
Sam: beaten so badly by Ronald Reagan.
Sam: that they decided, oh, hell, the conservative positions, the Americans really are conservative.
Sam: So we have to hide our liberal positions, pretend to be more moderate,
Sam: and that's the only way we can win.
Sam: Like there's Bill Clinton's triangulation strategy to try to capture the middle.
Sam: And you've still got a lot of people in the Democratic Party who came up in that era.
Sam: Whereas, look, if you do the polling on an individual by individual basis,
Sam: individual issue by individual basis,
Sam: they, you know, the Democrat, the liberal position is the majority position on immigration.
Sam: Immigration is questionable. It's very.
Ivan: No, no, no. On immigration. No, no, no. In immigration, you're right.
Ivan: I mean, immigration are against the mass deportations. Well, right, right.
Sam: Yeah. Yes. There's some question on how you word it and what kinds of things you're talking about.
Sam: But yeah, on immigration, people don't want this.
Sam: On gay rights, people are for gay rights now. People are for gay marriage.
Sam: The trans is a little bit behind that. But getting there, you know,
Sam: on social issues, on like what the safety net should look like. Marijuana, abortion.
Sam: Abortion. All of these issues.
Ivan: Healthcare, social security.
Sam: All of these issues are majority positions. So occasionally you get people like
Sam: Matt Iglesias and people like that saying, Democrats should just poll things
Sam: and then go after the popular issues, avoid the issues that aren't.
Sam: And you can see that a little bit. But the problem is that,
Sam: Voters and the public at large detect inauthenticity instinctually.
Sam: And so if you've got.
Ivan: People who are— One thing that you can say for sure is that Donald Trump is
Ivan: an authentic racist and he shows it every day. So that's why his people love him.
Ivan: It's true. They know he is one of theirs. They know he is one of theirs in that way.
Sam: Right. So for all of these issues, when the Democrat hides from the issue and
Sam: says, oh, they're attacking me on trans issues, so I'll just be quiet about that.
Sam: Or, oh, they're really aggressive on immigration, so I have to become more aggressive on immigration, too.
Sam: Or all of these things, they lose respect right off the bat.
Sam: First of all, one of the things that Donald Trump also showed is you can win
Sam: by just going for your base. Donald Trump makes no effort whatsoever to go after the center.
Ivan: To go to the middle. Yeah, not at all.
Sam: And how has he won? He has not won by converting people in the middle.
Sam: He has won by getting people out to vote who don't normally vote.
Sam: And the Democrats instead are constantly going back to, ooh,
Sam: how do we get this squishy voter in the middle who doesn't pay attention to
Sam: anything, as opposed to energize your fucking base instead of alienating them.
Sam: So, like, when there's an issue...
Sam: Like any of those that we just listed, don't hide from it.
Sam: Defend your goddamn position and talk about why you are right and they are wrong.
Sam: I keep coming back to the weird thing and stuff like that. This is why that
Sam: was working for the short period of time the Harris folks were using it.
Ivan: It was working.
Sam: Because it's like, no, we're not the ones that are out of the mainstream.
Sam: They're the ones that are out of the mainstream. They're the ones that are weird.
Sam: They are the ones who like are advocating for cruel and unusual things that
Sam: nobody supports. That strategy was working.
Sam: Now, on the other hand, with this Elon thing, you all of a sudden get all these
Sam: people saying, oh, what can we do to change our positions to get Elon solidly
Sam: on our side? Because that would help so much.
Sam: No, no. No.
Ivan: Rule number one, tell Elon to go fuck himself.
Ivan: And if you forget rule number two, if you forget about that,
Ivan: please go back and read rule number one. That's it.
Sam: And, you know, and the Democrats also have to be willing to alienate some supporters also.
Sam: Like, you know, if you listen.
Ivan: Here's one thing. Fifteen years ago, the Bernie Sanders approach was not the right approach.
Sam: Yeah okay.
Ivan: But right now it is when obama won it wasn't.
Sam: Yeah but.
Ivan: Right now that's the approach we need it needs to be combative it can't be appeasing
Ivan: it has to be aggressive period.
Sam: And part of that is being is having the hundred percent loss of all the governmental
Sam: institutions when you were like you don't have you don't have the house you
Sam: don't have the senate you don't have the presidency, you don't have the courts.
Sam: In that situation, you can't act like a governing party.
Sam: And I look, if you are in charge, there's certain things you have to do to govern well. But if you are.
Ivan: You have to obstruct, you have to stop, you have to, you have to always be just,
Ivan: listen, whatever the fuck they're doing, you do not, do not, do not.
Ivan: Under any circumstances, give them anything.
Ivan: Do not, even if it's something that you want, okay?
Sam: And frankly, even if they're going to win in the end anyway,
Sam: because they have the numbers, you have to write.
Sam: Even more so in that situation, you have to be the opposition.
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: Anyway.
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: That was drifting a little bit from Elon, but the reason is there is such a
Sam: resurgence this last week of these people going like, yay, now Elon's our friend. Bullshit.
Sam: He's not your friend. He will never be your friend.
Ivan: He wasn't your friend. He's never been your friend. Never been your friend.
Ivan: This guy has never been anybody's friend at all.
Sam: Okay.
Ivan: All right. I need to wrap it up.
Sam: Okay. Yeah, let's... I was going to say let's take...
Ivan: A little bit short.
Sam: Yeah, we don't need a break in a second thing. We can just wrap it.
Sam: Because even if we did take a break, I'd be like, well, what are we going to
Sam: talk about? There are a couple of small things.
Ivan: Yeah, there's a couple of small things, but I think we've...
Sam: I'm just going to hit...
Ivan: We covered all the... Listen, that news quiz did help us cover all the news.
Ivan: We got to see if we do better next time.
Sam: I'm just going to hit bullet points. Like...
Ivan: Hit the bullet points.
Sam: Hit the bullet points. If you have any quick reactions. We have Ukraine taking
Sam: out a significant portion of the Russian bomber fleet.
Ivan: We forgot this happened this week!
Ivan: So the Ukrainians are not so dumb after all, huh?
Sam: It turns out they have some cards.
Ivan: It turns out they have some cards. By the way, one of the things that happened,
Ivan: and I also checked traffic maps about this, Russian traffic is in a complete snarl like crazy.
Sam: Because they're checking all the trucks now.
Ivan: Every fucking truck everywhere now is getting checked.
Sam: What happened? The Ukrainians loaded up some trucks full of drones.
Ivan: And they hired Russian truckers.
Sam: Yeah, essentially, by the way, what they're doing here that is extremely clever,
Sam: that they have been really innovating on dramatically over the last few years,
Sam: they essentially take commercial drones and modify them to weaponize them.
Sam: So we're talking about like drones that are on the order of $1,500 to $2,000
Sam: a pop, as opposed to like, you know, these mega drones that.
Ivan: Yeah, like a Reaper or something. A Reaper, right. I was going to say Rapier. No, Reaper.
Sam: That costs like billions of dollars or however the hell much they cost.
Ivan: Well, they're not billions. They're expensive.
Sam: Trillions.
Ivan: They're way more expensive.
Sam: Trillions.
Ivan: Trillions. Yes, as our Secretary of Education said this week, yes.
Sam: Anyway.
Ivan: She's cutting $1.5 trillion.
Sam: Anyway, these are relatively inexpensive drones. And the ones they use for this
Sam: are sort of on the high end of what they're using in the field all over Ukraine as well.
Sam: But they modify these things. They put weapons on them, whatever.
Sam: They put a whole bunch of them in specially modified trucks.
Sam: They hired Russian truckers to transport them that had no idea what they were transporting them.
Sam: And then they had them leave them like a couple of miles from military bases
Sam: and then remote control, launch all the drones, blow up a whole bunch of planes.
Sam: You know, they take off from close enough that there's not a lot of time to respond.
Sam: And boom. And, you know, people have pointed out the biggest.
Ivan: The biggest issue Russia has right now, they can't replace those planes.
Sam: Yeah.
Ivan: They, they're, they, they have no way of replacing those planes.
Sam: At least on any term of reasonable time frame. Yes.
Ivan: Yeah, right. Yeah. Actually, they don't have a, I mean, they don't have,
Ivan: they don't have factories or churning them out.
Ivan: They can't just, you know, it would take like.
Sam: Years, years and years.
Ivan: Yes, years and years.
Sam: Yeah. So anyway, yeah, Ukraine did this and people are talking about how,
Sam: look, the whole world has to adapt to this new reality of how things work.
Sam: because defenses were set up against like you're sending fighters and.
Ivan: Bombers from another country and you.
Sam: See them on radar and you set up your your counter fighters and you use anti-aircraft
Sam: guns and blah blah blah blah blah none of that works against.
Ivan: Small drones launched some of it works i know that the navy has been adapting
Ivan: because they've been getting hit by drones at see they've had them and there
Ivan: are certain weapon systems that were designed there are ways to.
Sam: Adapt the point is.
Ivan: There you have to they have to adapt you have to adapt you cannot you cannot
Ivan: depend the old way of doing.
Sam: Things is dead.
Ivan: Yeah so so there are certain systems that are being adapted in order to be able
Ivan: to and another thing is that in the past in any times when you detected things
Ivan: like this right and this is something that's happened to that you you consider that oh that's noise,
Ivan: which is not, we're not paying attention to that.
Ivan: Now you can't, now you can't say that's noise. Now you got to go and like,
Ivan: your sensors, your whatever that you're using, you got to like,
Ivan: no, that's not noise anymore.
Sam: And your decision-making process, because instead of having,
Sam: you know, 20 minutes notice or something, you may have 20 seconds notice.
Ivan: Seconds to decide. Yeah.
Sam: Yeah. So, okay, we got Ukraine. We got the new travel ban. We did have a question on that on the quiz.
Ivan: We did have a question on the travel ban and we answered it.
Ivan: You answered it incorrectly.
Sam: I did. I was wrong. Donald has instigated a new investigation of Biden's use of Autopan.
Ivan: Uh-huh.
Sam: Yep. There was an escalation in ICE versus anti-ICE protesters in L.A., like last night.
Ivan: A lot of places, actually. But yeah, in L.A.
Sam: It got biggest in L.A. yesterday. But it's been growing over the last few weeks anyway,
Sam: where there have been groups that have come out to try to get in the way of
Sam: ICE when they're doing enforcement actions.
Sam: and there are starting to be conflicts between.
Ivan: Listen, I have said, and, you know, we talked about non-aggressive Democrats not being aggressive.
Ivan: If I'm the mayor, I'm the governor of the state. I'm like right now,
Ivan: my thing is right now I'm looking out for human rights.
Ivan: I'm looking for violations of due process by ICE. And I'm starting to I'm starting
Ivan: to I'm starting to arrest ICE agents.
Ivan: You're not following due process here. You know, I'm dragging you to jail.
Ivan: And that's how and you're you're you're you. Oh, you think you don't have the
Ivan: because they don't have the authority.
Ivan: They don't. Listen, I know by law, because this is this is a question that came
Ivan: to to to an issue in Puerto Rico. They don't have the authority to question U.S. citizens.
Ivan: You don't have it. So there was a thing that for years they tried to do when
Ivan: you exited Puerto Rico, where they kept asking people whether you were a U.S. citizen or not.
Ivan: And they were taking people who refused to answer the question and bringing
Ivan: them in for questioning.
Ivan: That went to the courts. The courts determined, you know what?
Ivan: ICE agents don't have that right.
Ivan: Immigration agents do not have that right. And the problem right now is that
Ivan: we're letting them get away with way too much.
Sam: Well, and there are also a lot of situations where they are relying on people
Sam: not knowing that for certain things they are actually required to have warrants.
Sam: And so, like, people can say, no, I'm not letting you in unless you can show
Sam: me a warrant or whatever.
Ivan: Show me a warrant or whatever. You've got no right to come in here, period.
Sam: Yeah.
Ivan: But this is a big problem.
Ivan: But my problem is that if I'm a mayor and I'm a sheriff of a city and I've got
Ivan: immigration agents breaking the law left and right, you know what I'm doing?
Ivan: I'm fucking arresting these assholes.
Ivan: That's what I would be doing. They want to start with this shit.
Ivan: You want to start breaking the law left and right? You think that you've got
Ivan: the right to just break the law in my city? Fuck you, no. Okay?
Sam: Yeah, I think we are seeing escalation of this situation.
Sam: And we're seeing, yeah, in LA, they were using, you know, the non-lethal force.
Ivan: Flashbang.
Sam: Flashbang.
Ivan: Whatever, but it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous for an immigration raid.
Sam: Well, and I think it's only a matter of time till we get like the equivalent
Sam: of what happened in Kent State in the 60s.
Sam: And some protester gets killed and then you'll start seeing reaction to that.
Sam: This is going to escalate. I see no way.
Ivan: It's going to escalate. Yeah.
Sam: Okay. Along those lines, last item I'm going to mention here is Garcia has been
Sam: returned from El Salvador. Yeah.
Sam: Now they have indicted him.
Ivan: Now they have made up these charges against him.
Sam: Well, here's the thing. I've seen a few legal reviews of the indictment that say it's really weak.
Sam: There might be something, but it's really weak. There are all kinds of holes I can put in this.
Sam: But the fundamental thing, I've seen a lot of the Republicans say things along
Sam: the, essentially boiling down to, okay, fine.
Sam: Are you happy now? And the answer is, well, kind of, because now he will go
Sam: through the proper process.
Sam: You say you have charges against him. We were never saying necessarily that
Sam: this guy was pure as the driven snow.
Ivan: But by the way, there is something that, no, no, no, here's something.
Ivan: Okay, listen, there is significant evidence that the U.S.
Ivan: attorney for Tennessee resigned the moment that he was coming back.
Ivan: And the main reason why in the background they said is because he basically
Ivan: said that this entire chart is made up and political.
Sam: Yes. But here's the thing. They now have to prove it.
Sam: You know? And so this will go to court. It will, you know, it'll go through the standard process.
Sam: Either the guy will be convicted or he won't be. Now, they're trying to keep
Sam: him in pretrial detention the whole time. We'll see if that flies.
Sam: And if it is completely made up and he gets exonerated, we'll see what happens then.
Sam: I mean, the guy shouldn't have, assuming this stuff is fairly flimsy,
Sam: then he shouldn't be going through any of this at all, of course.
Sam: But at least now, the basic principle at play here is there has to be a process.
Sam: The government can't just say, you're bad.
Sam: And send you to El Salvador.
Ivan: El Salvador.
Sam: They have to prove their case. They have to have a case and they have to prove the case.
Sam: And, you know, and we'll see what happens in this case.
Sam: But that's the important principle. And so many people on the MAGA side are
Sam: like, well, that's bullshit.
Sam: He's a bad guy. He shouldn't have due process.
Sam: But the problem is, if you don't have that.
Ivan: Everybody has due process.
Sam: If you don't have that process for.
Sam: everyone, then there's nothing stopping you from abusing that power for everyone.
Ivan: Right.
Sam: You know, and whether or not this individual guy is guilty or not is not actually the point.
Sam: Now, if they're completely railroading an innocent man, there should be consequences
Sam: for that. There may or may not actually be in the end.
Sam: But even if he, if he turned, let's say he turns out to be guilty.
Sam: He did all the stuff they said. well you still need to prove it and that right
Sam: that's what they're doing okay that was the last thing i had.
Ivan: All right so we're done.
Sam: We're done okay everybody uh curmudgeon-corner.com
Sam: you can find our archives you can find all the ways to contact us you can find
Sam: transcripts you can find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow you can find
Sam: all the good stuff you could possibly want right Yvonne.
Ivan: Absolutely everything everything the whole time everything.
Sam: Everything yes and if you don't find everything all the time if you don't find
Sam: any of that on curmudgeon-corner.com that is your fault for it is not ours you
Sam: know it's your problem that's.
Ivan: Your problem you know I sorry but you know.
Sam: Do better please anyway one of the things is a link to our patreon where you
Sam: can give us money we would like more money And at various levels,
Sam: we'll send you a postcard, we'll send you a mug, blah, blah,
Sam: blah. I still owe postcards. Sorry.
Sam: I wrote them. I just haven't sent them to Yvonne to send to whatever.
Sam: I'll get to it eventually.
Sam: And yeah, we'll send you all that. And importantly, at $2 a month or more,
Sam: or if you just ask, we'll invite you to the we will invite you to the Curmudgeon's Corner Slack,
Sam: where Yvonne and I and a bunch of other folks are hanging out,
Sam: chatting, sharing links, et cetera.
Sam: So Yvonne, one thing from the chat that will make people really,
Sam: really, really wish to join our Slack and be on there all the time.
Ivan: From the LA Times, an AI startup back Mike Marcusoff revealed to be 700 Indian
Ivan: employees pretending to be chatbots.
Sam: Is that a problem, Yvonne?
Ivan: As long as it works, no. Look, I did, for full disclosure, when I was at Kodak,
Ivan: I did release a product called the Kodak Scan Cloud.
Sam: Uh-huh.
Ivan: All right. Now, the Kodak Scan Cloud.
Sam: Are you going to get in trouble for revealing this, Yvonne?
Ivan: Not really. I mean, you know, I don't think so. You know, look, I launched this.
Ivan: The one thing is that I didn't, look, the whole thing was that we would scan
Ivan: capture data on your documents, okay?
Ivan: We had an SLA. that we would meet and that you would get this information fed into your system.
Ivan: Now, I didn't say how that happened. It made it sound like it was technology.
Ivan: But the reality is that I had this place staffed with people 24-7 that basically
Ivan: when the documents came in,
Ivan: there was some technology involved, but there was humans that had to really
Ivan: do the last mile of it in order for your document to be processed.
Ivan: But I didn't say that anyway.
Ivan: So I'm not surprised that somebody... And the reason, the reason why I did that
Ivan: is because there was software that could automatically do this,
Ivan: but the licenses were so expensive that the reality is that the people were cheaper.
Sam: Yeah.
Ivan: And by the way, more accurate as well. The people were cheaper and more accurate.
Sam: There you go.
Ivan: So I was like, well, what the hell, you know?
Sam: Well, I, so, so yeah.
Ivan: So I'm sure that that's what the, what they figured out with the 700 guys.
Ivan: They're like, wait, the technology will say stupid shit that we don't want it
Ivan: to say. It'll give you wrong answers. What the hell?
Ivan: You know, we'll just put 700 people back there. We won't tell everybody that's.
Sam: Well, didn't you mention last week that Tesla was hiring a team of.
Ivan: Yes.
Sam: For drivers. For their self-driver.
Ivan: For their self-driving. Yes. For the driverless taxis. Yes. Well, hiring drivers.
Sam: Which, by the way, is apparently typical of all of these self-driving taxi folks.
Ivan: Yes, I mean, Waymo has people that can take over remotely in case the vehicle gets into it.
Sam: The question, of course, is how often is the human having to do something versus
Sam: how often it really is automated.
Ivan: Right. If it's basically driving the full time.
Sam: And that's not always disclosed.
Ivan: Right. Yes, that is true.
Sam: One of these companies that had to i
Sam: forget which one that had to pull out of some marketplace after an
Sam: accident or whatever ended up revealing that they had like two drivers on staff
Sam: for every car or whatever and yes um and so and i believe there's even one company
Sam: out there who doesn't try to fake it.
Sam: And it's just like, this isn't, this isn't a self-driving car.
Sam: It's just that your chauffeur happens to be in Mumbai.
Sam: we're driving the car by remote control from wherever.
Ivan: I mean honestly look there is an advantage to not having to be with another
Ivan: human being in the car right i mean i really you know for the most part i don't
Ivan: i don't i one reason i like to drive myself i don't want to be in the car with
Ivan: some other person i have no idea who the hell they are fuck this shit right,
Ivan: Yeah, let him be 5,000, 7,000 miles away. The hell with this shit.
Sam: Yeah, well, okay. Anyway, we are done. Thank you, everybody.
Sam: Have a nice week. We'll be back next week.
Sam: Stay safe. Have a good time, etc., etc., etc., etc. Goodbye.
Ivan: Bye.
Sam: Do-do-do-do-do-do-do. Okay, later, Yvonne. Have a good weekend.
Ivan: Okay. All right, let's do this.