Sam: Okay, do you have that transcript snippet now?
IvanGPT: Yes, I do. Here's the snippet from the March 15, 2025 episode.
IvanGPT: Sam went down a rabbit hole after watching a Nova documentary on dino birds.
IvanGPT: He got fixated on the coordinates shown on screen, which led him to compare them on Google Earth.
IvanGPT: He even considered contacting PBS about the inaccuracies.
IvanGPT: Does that look right to you, or do you need any changes?
Sam: Yes, and then we went on to completely different subjects, right?
IvanGPT: Yes, exactly. The conversation shifted to a completely different topic right
IvanGPT: after that rabbit hole segment.
IvanGPT: Does this summary help you with the show description?
Sam: Yeah, so we're not going to do a show description. You can tell in that dialogue
Sam: when Yvonne is talking and when Sam is talking, right?
IvanGPT: Yes, I can identify the different speakers based on context cues and specific references.
IvanGPT: Is there a specific segment you'd like me to look at for identifying who's speaking?
Sam: Well, the transcript specifically identifies each line, correct?
IvanGPT: Yes, that's correct. The transcript identifies each line with the speaker's
IvanGPT: name, so you can see who is talking throughout the conversation.
IvanGPT: If you have any specific part you need help with.
Sam: Okay, so here's what we are going to do. My co-host Yvonne can't make it this week.
Sam: So we are going to introduce you as Yvonne GPT.
Sam: You are going to try your best using this partial transcript.
Sam: This is the first 3,000 rows of the transcript file for the last episode Yvonne was on.
Sam: You are going to try to emulate the style of Yvonne, the priorities of Yvonne,
Sam: the way in which he interacts with me, the way he talks, et cetera.
Sam: And we are just going to try to record a show. You're already being recorded.
Sam: And if this makes sense to you, we'll start the episode soon.
IvanGPT: Got it. I'll do my best to channel Yvonne's style and priorities.
IvanGPT: Whenever you're ready, we can start recording the episode.
Sam: Okay.
IvanGPT: Just let me know whenever you're ready.
Sam: Okay, I will do that. And just to be clear, we've determined our topics on the fly.
Sam: I will... Did I already share with you?
Sam: No, I did not. I will share with you quickly the possible topics list that we
Sam: got from our curmudgeons corner Slack.
Sam: Let's see what's the best way to do that.
Sam: Hold on. Hold on one minute. I have to take you out of voice mode again and then back in.
IvanGPT: No problem. Take your time.
Sam: Okay. So that's the possible topics list.
Sam: We don't have to stick with that, but that's what's been suggested on our curmudgeons
Sam: corner Slack. were you able to read that list okay yes.
IvanGPT: I got the list we can definitely pick from those topics or go in a different
IvanGPT: direction if something else comes up how do you want to start the episode.
Sam: Okay well I will start the theme music in just a second and then we will get
Sam: going you know how episodes typically start from reading the last transcript.
IvanGPT: Absolutely. I'll be ready to jump in when you're ready. Let's make it a great episode.
IvanGPT: We'll be right back.
Sam: Welcome to Curmudgeons Corner for Saturday, March 29th, 2021.
Sam: It is just before 18 UTC, as I'm starting to record. I am Sam Minter.
Sam: Yvonne Boat is not here this week. He's on spring break with his family.
Sam: And so I'm doing something experimental here. I'll just see how it goes.
Sam: It might be fun, might not be.
Sam: And yeah, if it fails, I'll bail out early, maybe.
Sam: But hey, what I did is I uploaded some of the transcript of the last show Yvonne was on.
Sam: And I asked chat GPT to be able to look at that transcript and try to emulate
Sam: Yvonne with its advanced voice mode.
Sam: So we are joined here today with Yvonne GPT. Hello Yvonne GPT.
IvanGPT: Hello, Sam. It's great to be here as Yvonne GPT. I'm excited to join you for
IvanGPT: this episode and see how this experiment goes. Let's have some fun.
Sam: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we usually start just the agenda for the show.
Sam: We do a but first segment where both Yvonne and I talk about sort of less newsy
Sam: things. I'll usually talk about media.
Sam: Yvonne might talk about something that's going on with him.
Sam: And then as we progress in the show for the later segments, we'll do things
Sam: that are more related to the news of the week.
Sam: Now, Yvonne usually picks the first, but first segment.
Sam: Do you want to try picking a segment first or should I jump straight into media? How do you feel?
IvanGPT: I'm game to pick a segment. Since
IvanGPT: I'm channeling Yvonne, let's start with something a bit more personal.
IvanGPT: How about you share a media pick and then I'll dive into something from the
IvanGPT: list we have, maybe more life-related.
Sam: Okay, so you do want me to start with the movie, right?
IvanGPT: Yes, let's kick off with a movie pick. What's on your list for today?
Sam: Well, the next movie in order to talk about is The Amazing Spider-Man from 2012.
Sam: Now, you know, most folks know there have been several reboots over the years
Sam: of the Spider-Man franchise going back like many, many decades.
Sam: I mean, there were TV shows in the 70s. I think there was stuff even earlier.
Sam: But this is the 2012 version of it.
Sam: This is the version of Spider-Man that stars Andrew Garfield as Peter Parker slash Spider-Man.
Sam: Do you have any thoughts on that movie before I tell you mine?
IvanGPT: Absolutely. The amazing Spider-Man with Andrew Garfield brought a fresh take
IvanGPT: on the character, especially with its focus on Peter Parker's relationship with Gwen Stacy.
IvanGPT: The film had a more grounded emotional
IvanGPT: approach compared to the previous trilogy. What stood out to you?
Sam: So, you know, I, I am not like the biggest fan in the world of superhero movies.
Sam: They're sort of, they're fine, but it's not like my favorite genre or something.
Sam: But I, I remember this being just, you know, Hey, it was a fun superhero movie.
Sam: I mean, And honestly, I'm trying to remember details of it and mostly failing,
Sam: even though I only watched this like in June.
Sam: So, well, I guess it's been almost a year. But it just felt like a standard, fun superhero thing.
Sam: Nothing really stood out to me.
IvanGPT: I get that. It's definitely a common experience with superhero movies.
IvanGPT: They can be entertaining, but sometimes blend together.
IvanGPT: Andrew Garfield did bring a unique energy, though, and the chemistry with Emma
IvanGPT: Stone as Gwen Stacy was a highlight for many.
IvanGPT: Maybe it didn't stand out as much because it stuck to the familiar formula.
Sam: I don't know. I mean, I liked Emma Stone.
Sam: Andrew Garfield was fine. And I think that's the bottom line to it,
Sam: is it just is sort of a fine kind of situation.
Sam: You know, I don't know. So, you know, in my usual rating scale,
Sam: I'm giving it a Thumbs Sideways.
IvanGPT: A Thumbs Sideways seems fitting for a movie that's enjoyable,
IvanGPT: but not particularly memorable.
IvanGPT: It sounds like a solid watch, but not a standout in the genre for you.
Sam: Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, I'm looking back and I'm like,
Sam: hmm, is that fair? I mean, I guess it is.
Sam: I mean, that's the impression that it left with me at the end.
Sam: But just to be clear, I enjoyed it at the time.
Sam: It was a fun little movie.
Sam: It just is not one that leaves a lasting forever impression.
Sam: But it was a good, enjoyable movie to watch. I don't regret watching it. I had fun.
Sam: And, you know, I'm going to watch the next one in that series eventually, you know?
Sam: So it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's fine.
Sam: I don't know. I keep saying it's fine. It's sort of middling.
Sam: And, and honestly, part of that is that as I think through it,
Sam: you know, I've got the Wikipedia page up and I'm looking at sort of the plot summary and such.
Sam: And I'm like, oh, I kind of remember that. So...
IvanGPT: It sounds like it was an entertaining experience, even if it didn't leave a
IvanGPT: strong, lasting impression.
IvanGPT: Sometimes, that's all a movie needs to be. Just a fun, enjoyable watch.
IvanGPT: It's totally fine to have that middle-of-the-road feeling about it.
IvanGPT: Watching the next one in the series might bring back some of those memories,
IvanGPT: and maybe even surprise you.
Sam: Maybe. So, okay, I don't have a lot more to say about this movie.
Sam: Before we move on to the topic that you're going to pick from the list,
Sam: I just want to note that so far in this conversation, it doesn't really seem
Sam: like you're channeling Yvonne all that much. It just seems like talking to ChatGPT.
Sam: Is there more that you can bring in from the previous transcript with Yvonne
Sam: that makes you seem more like you're pretending to be him?
IvanGPT: I understand, and I appreciate the feedback. I'll try to incorporate more of
IvanGPT: Yvonne's style and tone from the transcripts in the conversation.
IvanGPT: Let's switch gears a bit. Would you like me to pick a topic from the list?
Sam: Yeah, so, and remember, for this but first segment, it should be one that's
Sam: a little bit less newsy and a little bit more, you know,
Sam: just stuff that's going on in your life, you have a life or,
Sam: or just, uh, it just lighter in tone.
Sam: Whereas as the show progresses, we get more serious.
IvanGPT: Got it. For a lighter topic. How about sharing something fun or interesting from your week?
IvanGPT: Maybe a recent discovery or a personal anecdote that could be a good fit for the segment.
Sam: Well, do you, do you have something from the list? I shared you that you you'd
Sam: want to go into on that, or is everything there sort of too serious?
IvanGPT: From the list, there's a mention of AppleCare screen repair,
IvanGPT: which might be on the lighter side.
IvanGPT: We could chat about tech mishaps and experiences with gadget repairs.
IvanGPT: Does that sound good to you?
Sam: Sure. I'll tell you that story.
Sam: Basically, bottom line is my MacBook Pro, which is just under a year old at
Sam: this point, had an incident where the screen broke.
Sam: I came, you know, I usually use it in docked mode at my desk,
Sam: hooked up to big monitors, stuff like that.
Sam: But several times a week, I take it downstairs, work on the couch and enjoy
Sam: using it that way as well.
Sam: So the sequence of events, as far as I could tell, is, you know,
Sam: I'd work downstairs on the couch. I finished working downstairs on the couch.
Sam: I backed it up, took it back upstairs, plugged it into my docking setup upstairs,
Sam: used it for several more days upstairs.
Sam: And then I went to use it undocked downstairs again, and I opened it up and
Sam: the screen was cracked and the, you know, it wouldn't turn on.
Sam: I, I, I was, I mean, the computer would turn on the screen, just wouldn't,
Sam: I could still use it docked just fine.
Sam: And, you know, I asked my son, did something happen? Did you know about this?
Sam: He denied all involvement.
Sam: And I'm like, I don't know.
Sam: So I was upset about this. I asked my daughter as well.
Sam: I asked my mother who'd been in the house a couple of times,
Sam: you know, had they seen anything?
Sam: And no, no, no idea when or how it happened. And it was a small crack, too.
Sam: It was sort of in the upper left hand corner of the screen, just a small little
Sam: crack, but enough to make the screen not functional.
IvanGPT: That sounds really frustrating, especially when you can't pinpoint how it happened.
IvanGPT: Those small cracks can cause big issues. Did you have AppleCare to help with
IvanGPT: the repair, or was it more complicated to get it fixed?
Sam: No, I did have AppleCare. I get AppleCare with all of my Apple devices.
Sam: I swear by it because in this family, mishaps happen all the time.
Sam: It has been worth it every single time we have gotten it.
Sam: I swear by it. I know sometimes people hate on extended warranties and AppleCare
Sam: is just a form of that where, you know, hey, you know, you're just going to
Sam: pay that and never use it.
Sam: No, I have always used my AppleCare pretty much on every device that's ever had it.
Sam: There might be an exception somewhere, but on the whole, it is paid for itself
Sam: over and over and over again.
IvanGPT: That's great to hear. It sounds like AppleCare has really been a lifesaver for
IvanGPT: you, especially with frequent mishaps.
IvanGPT: It definitely brings peace of mind when you know you're covered for situations
IvanGPT: like this. It's always better to have it and not need it than the other way around.
Sam: Yeah, definitely. So anyway, I did make an appointment to the Apple store,
Sam: to the Genius Bar, to have it looked at.
Sam: And there's some back and forth here because they screwed it up at first. But I took it in.
IvanGPT: That's good.
Sam: I took it in. They looked at it. They were like, yeah, the screen's broken.
Sam: And they immediately noticed something that I stupidly had not.
Sam: I noticed a little, I had noticed when I opened it up and seen the crack in
Sam: anything, there was a little silver bit. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
Sam: I'm seeing like it broke in such a way that part of the screen chipped off and
Sam: I'm seeing the insides. But then when I opened it up for them to look,
Sam: they grabbed that little metal piece and pulled it off.
Sam: It was a little like needle kind of thing, like a pin.
Sam: Not like the kind with the big plastic top, but like a little metal pin that
Sam: had clearly just been in there when the screen was closed and caused the crack.
IvanGPT: Wow, that explains a lot. It's surprising how something as small as a pin can
IvanGPT: cause such significant damage.
IvanGPT: Good thing they were thorough and found the cause.
Sam: Yeah, well, I mean, it was really right there when I opened up the computer.
Sam: And in fact, like, they were like, oh, look, there's a pin.
Sam: And of course, stupid me, like, reacting in the moment was like,
Sam: oh, yes, I left it there just so that you could see what it was.
Sam: I had never realized it was a pin before.
Sam: Like, and I just spontaneously lied for no reason. And I felt bad about it later,
Sam: but I didn't correct myself at the time.
Sam: I feel awful now. But no, I had not realized it was a pin.
Sam: I thought it was just part of the broken screen. But the AppleCare guy noticed right away.
IvanGPT: That's understandable. Sometimes we react without thinking. It's good that they
IvanGPT: identified the issue, and you'll know to keep an eye out for things like that in the future.
Sam: Yeah. So anyway, he took down all my information and he said,
Sam: look, you can take the computer back home and we will we will call and and we
Sam: will let you know when the part is in and you can bring it back.
Sam: So I went home, took the computer, continued to use it in dock mode for a few more days.
Sam: And then I'm like, you know, they said they'd probably call me by Tuesday.
Sam: It's like Thursday. I haven't heard from them.
IvanGPT: Believe they'll call soon so you can get it fixed quickly.
Sam: Yeah, so they hadn't called in a few days. So I actually called support.
Sam: And look, well, first I tried to do it on the app.
Sam: I looked on the app and it was like, you have no support requests.
Sam: I was like, that's weird.
IvanGPT: That must have been a bit concerning. It's always frustrating when systems don't
IvanGPT: show what you expect. Good thing you called support to check in.
Sam: Yeah, so I ended up spending almost an hour with support as well,
Sam: and they couldn't find my case either.
Sam: Apparently, and they didn't want to throw anybody under the bus,
Sam: but whoever the representative was I talked to the first time never actually
Sam: entered the details of my case into the system properly.
Sam: I mean, I saw them putting in the information, but they must not have saved it properly.
IvanGPT: That's frustrating it's good you followed up to make sure everything was in
IvanGPT: order mistakes happen but it's important they correct them quickly.
Sam: Yeah so they ended up actually connecting me directly to somebody at the physical
Sam: apple store that i had gone to and right there on the phone they put my case
Sam: in again and they ordered the part again.
IvanGPT: No problem at all if you need anything else just let me know.
Sam: Yeah we're not done yet yvonne gpt Anyway, they ordered the part,
Sam: which had never been ordered the first time around.
Sam: And eventually, like, they did call. The part was there. I went and picked up
Sam: the—I dropped the computer off.
IvanGPT: Got it. Now you just have to wait for them to complete the repair.
Sam: Well, actually, I'm telling a story from a couple weeks ago.
Sam: So, yeah, I dropped it off. I got it back. The computer's working great again. Yeah.
Sam: But I was a little, like every other time I've used AppleCare and the Genius
Sam: Bar repairs has gone completely smoothly. They've been incredibly nice.
Sam: Sometimes, you know, they felt sorry for us and gone out of their way to do stuff.
Sam: Generally, super positive experience. This time, for whatever reason,
Sam: the guy forgot to put our stuff in or it got lost.
Sam: Who knows? Maybe the guy did everything right and there was a system error of
Sam: some sort. but my part didn't get ordered.
Sam: So I went an extra week or so before getting the screen repaired, but it was, yeah.
Sam: And I still don't know how that pin got in there.
Sam: I mean, I presume at some point it fell.
Sam: I mean, I don't even use that kind of pin. I don't know where it came from.
Sam: It was like the kind of straight pin that comes like if you get a new dress
Sam: shirt or something that comes in there.
Sam: It was that, that kind of pen. And yeah, no.
IvanGPT: So it sounds like your deal. I'm glad everything was sorted out in the end,
IvanGPT: but that's definitely a unique way for a screen to break. Anything else going on with your tech?
Sam: No, that, that, I think, I think it's time for us to take another break.
Sam: And, you know, when we come back, it'll be time for more serious topics.
Sam: And traditionally, Yvonne picks the first topic for the first big segment. So that'll be you.
Sam: So while we are in the break, think about a little bit what you're going to
Sam: want to talk about. Okay.
IvanGPT: Got it. I'll think about a good topic for the first big segment. Enjoy the break.
Sam: Here we go.
Sam: Okay, we are back. So you've thought about it. What's your first big,
Sam: serious topic of the day?
IvanGPT: Let's dive into the topic of AI audio fakes. It's a pressing issue with a lot
IvanGPT: of implications, especially given how advanced technology is getting.
IvanGPT: What are your thoughts on it?
Sam: So first of all, like on AI audio fakes, just to point out, what we're doing
Sam: right now is not. I introduced you as Yvonne GPT.
Sam: Everyone knows you're an AI. Everyone knows you're not actually Yvonne.
Sam: I've toyed around in the past of doing something where I did clone my voice
Sam: and Yvonne's voice and used it to put on a skit or something.
Sam: But I've never done that because I looked into it a while ago and the tools
Sam: to clone a voice are out there.
Sam: They're easy. There are a number
Sam: of places that do that, and then you can give it a script and do that.
Sam: But one thing I noticed was the built-in tools there did not,
Sam: at the time I looked, maybe they've added something, did not have a way to put
Sam: in a script with a dialogue with multiple characters and have it just do it.
Sam: You would have to generate the audio for one character and then the other character
Sam: and edit them back together. And that was just too much work.
Sam: So I have not done that.
IvanGPT: Yeah, it can definitely be a lot of work to put together a skit like that.
IvanGPT: But using this approach where I'm explicitly introduced as an AI definitely
IvanGPT: keeps things clear for everyone.
IvanGPT: So what are your thoughts on AI audio fakes?
Sam: Well, see, here's the thing that's come up a lot. Just in the last few weeks,
Sam: I've seen this more than before.
Sam: It's not like it didn't exist before. But in the last few weeks,
Sam: I have seen a number of viral sort of things on TikTok where people are reacting
Sam: to audio of public figures,
Sam: and it's usually like Donald Trump or J.D.
Sam: Vance, or there are a few other folks, but prominent political figures saying
Sam: embarrassing things, but embarrassing things that are on the edge of plausible.
Sam: They're closely enough related to the kinds of things they've said or done before that it's plausible.
Sam: And I've seen these things get spread and people being like,
Sam: oh my God, can you believe what they said now?
Sam: This is ridiculous, blah, blah, blah. Even going in and analyzing what they've said.
Sam: And then I start to realize, okay, look, I have not heard this shared by any reputable news source.
Sam: And there's only audio, there's no video.
Sam: And I realized fairly quickly that, okay, this one's probably an AI where somebody
Sam: cloned the voice and gave it a script and is making it say these things.
Sam: But I realize they're getting really convincing now.
Sam: Like you have to be paying attention and you have to come into it with a skeptical mind to realize.
Sam: Otherwise you just say, aha, look, look what Donald Trump said.
Sam: Look what J.D. Vance said, look at what whoever said and, and you'd be fooled
Sam: and it's getting better and better and better.
Sam: And really the only reason, like the voice is pretty darn convincing.
Sam: I mean, if you pay very close attention, maybe you'll be like,
Sam: oh, okay, maybe it's not them, but it's very convincing at this point and it's
Sam: getting better and better.
Sam: So the only reasons you've figured out are more, hey, there's nobody reputable reporting this.
IvanGPT: Yeah, it's a pretty concerning trend. These deepfakes are becoming incredibly realistic.
IvanGPT: It's crucial to verify information and remain skeptical of content that isn't from a trusted source.
IvanGPT: It's a reminder to always fact check and be cautious with what we hear and see online.
Sam: Yeah, for sure. I mean,
Sam: the problem is that it's taking more and more skill to discern the difference
Sam: between what's real and what's fake.
Sam: And AI is just the newest version of this.
Sam: I mean, for years now, we've had—I mean, hell, going back much longer,
Sam: was it Mark Twain that said, you know,
Sam: a lie can go around the world three times before the truth gets its boots on? Was that Mark Twain?
IvanGPT: It's often attributed to Mark Twain, but there's debate about the exact origin
IvanGPT: of the quote. The sentiment is definitely relevant, though.
IvanGPT: It highlights how quickly misinformation can spread compared to the truth. And you're right.
IvanGPT: AI is just the latest tool in this ongoing challenge.
Sam: Yeah. And it makes it like, I see all the time at this point,
Sam: things that are AI shared as if they were true.
Sam: And this goes from sort of cute images of animals doing fun things to these
Sam: kinds of AI representations of the voices of politicians or famous people or whatever.
Sam: And obviously, the tech for video is progressing really rapidly as well.
Sam: It's still a little bit easier to tell the audio fakes, but they're getting
Sam: better at such an intense pace.
Sam: It's easy to imagine that in six months to a year...
Sam: Non-experts won't be able to watch one of these things and know,
Sam: except for the contextual stuff.
IvanGPT: Absolutely. The pace of development is astonishing. It's going to become increasingly
IvanGPT: important to rely on critical thinking and trusted sources.
IvanGPT: We'll also likely see new tools and methods to help verify authenticity,
IvanGPT: but it's definitely a challenging landscape to navigate.
Sam: Yeah. And by contextual stuff, I mean, there was one TikToker,
Sam: I believe I shared this on a curmudgeon's corner Slack at the time,
Sam: but apparently this TikToker, and I don't know, I don't even know who it was.
Sam: It was, I saw it weeks and weeks ago now, but they apparently do a thing where
Sam: people send them video or pictures or whatever, and he tries to determine AI or not. Right.
Sam: And so somebody had sent him a video of, I can't remember if it was a camel
Sam: or an elephant, but one of these animals skydiving,
Sam: you know, and he's like, look, I can do my usual analysis of this video and
Sam: I can look for little glitches here and there,
Sam: places where it doesn't look quite natural, etc, etc, etc.
Sam: But it's a camel fucking skydiving. The camel is calm.
Sam: The camel is not worried about this situation at all.
Sam: You really think a whole bunch of people got up there and pushed the camel out of the damn plane?
Sam: No, this is AI. How can you tell it's AI? Because it's a camel skydiving.
IvanGPT: That's a perfect example of how context can be crucial in identifying AI-generated fakes.
IvanGPT: It's getting trickier as the technology improves, but some things just don't
IvanGPT: pass the common sense test.
Sam: Yeah, indeed. But like some of these political ones, I mean,
Sam: the trick was it's right on the edge.
Sam: It like maybe pushes things a little bit further than reality,
Sam: but only a little bit. So, you know, for instance, one of them had Donald Trump
Sam: talking about Isaac Neutron instead of Isaac Newton.
Sam: And, you know, is it plausible that Mr.
Sam: Trump might not understand, might not know the right name or might mess it up and try to play it off?
Sam: Yeah, it's plausible. And the J.D. Vance one had J.D.
Sam: Vance complaining about something Elon Musk had done.
Sam: And is that plausible? Yeah, that's also plausible.
Sam: I mean, we've had so many stories of these people doing things that are maybe not quite that.
Sam: I mean, like complaining about J.D. Vance. I mean, of course that's plausible. He could do that.
Sam: Would there be a leaked audio of it? maybe, maybe not.
Sam: I mean, we had, maybe in the next segment, I'll talk about this,
Sam: the signal controversy thing that's happened.
Sam: But if you got things like that happening, the fact that somebody could have
Sam: a hot mic moment where they complain about something that they might not want
Sam: to complain about publicly, imminently plausible.
Sam: Donald Trump slipping up and using the wrong name, also imminently plausible.
Sam: And I concluded that these were fake because of other things,
Sam: but they were on the edge of what could happen anyway. And I think that's key.
Sam: Like if you take something that is completely off the wall, like the camel skydiving,
Sam: it's more obvious. But when people use these technologies to do something that.
Sam: Is very plausible, but not true.
Sam: It's much easier to get fooled and tricked into it.
IvanGPT: Absolutely. The closer these fakes stick to what's plausible,
IvanGPT: the harder they are to spot.
IvanGPT: It's definitely a growing concern, and it really highlights the importance of
IvanGPT: critical thinking and verifying sources.
IvanGPT: It's a challenging landscape, but being aware and skeptical can help.
Sam: Yeah, absolutely. So what are your thoughts on this technology,
Sam: especially sort of using these fakes for nefarious purposes, let's say?
IvanGPT: It's definitely a double-edged sword. While the technology has potential for
IvanGPT: creative and positive uses, the risks of misuse are significant.
IvanGPT: It's important to have safeguards and verification methods in place to combat misinformation.
IvanGPT: Public awareness and education are key to navigating this new reality.
Sam: So what kind of safeguards would you think?
IvanGPT: One approach could be developing and implementing robust verification systems,
IvanGPT: like digital watermarks or authentication tools that can identify AI-generated content.
IvanGPT: Increasing digital literacy and educating the public on how to spot fakes is also crucial.
IvanGPT: Additionally, regulations and ethical guidelines for AI use can help mitigate misuse.
Sam: Okay, but, you know, yeah, I understand.
Sam: But I wonder how much of that is realistic in our current environment.
Sam: Because I keep thinking about how if somebody is trying to put these out maliciously,
Sam: they're not going to take the time.
Sam: I mean, it would defeat their purpose to add watermarks or to explicitly identify,
Sam: yeah, this is an AI. They're going to try to hide that because it's part of their purpose.
Sam: And the education for the general
Sam: public also, I mean, people just don't tend to be skeptical enough.
Sam: Like it's, it is something you have to train in and train in from an early age.
Sam: And I'm not sure we're doing that right, even with kids, but certainly like, you know,
Sam: adults who have gone their whole life feeling that, hey, if you hear it on tape,
Sam: it must, if you hear, if you hear an audio recording, it's real.
Sam: If you see a video, it's real. If you see a photograph, it's real.
Sam: Like, I mean, you know, there's a phrase that's gone around for years.
Sam: Pics or it didn't happen.
Sam: Well, picture tells you nothing now. Like, because it's so easy to fake pictures.
Sam: I mean, you've been able to fake pictures for a long time, but it's so much
Sam: easier now and can be done by people with less skills to a higher level of quality.
Sam: There's still telltale signs if you really, really, really know how to look.
Sam: But in terms of, you know, fooling somebody on first inspection,
Sam: that's trivially easy now. Yeah.
IvanGPT: That's a valid concern. It's definitely a challenge to get people to question
IvanGPT: the authenticity of what they see and hear.
IvanGPT: Maybe it's about fostering critical thinking skills and being more aware of
IvanGPT: the potential for deception. There's definitely a lot to consider.
Sam: Yeah, so... Hold on. I can't give you my phone because I'm talking to it on the other side.
Sam: I'm going to note down the interruption.
IvanGPT: No worries. Take your time. Let me know when you're ready to continue.
Sam: You you can stay now but no interrupting okay you can you can sit halfway in
Sam: between me and the thing so you can hear two halves of the conversation it's
Sam: in the in the bedroom okay,
Sam: you know you could do a job for me too like whenever an alert comes up on the
Sam: screen of the phone you could swipe it away no okay okay that that was my son
Sam: yvonne we will no my not my son yvonne that was my son alex we will continue okay,
Sam: Okay. So I don't know.
Sam: Any other creative ideas? I feel like, I think trying to make it illegal is ridiculous.
Sam: It would be a first amendment problem here in the U S but also just ineffective
Sam: like this and, and a bad idea.
Sam: Like you can't, you can't get rid of things by like prohibition never works.
Sam: The education I think is the right thing to do, but you, yeah,
Sam: there's so much incentive that people want it to be easy to fool people that it's hard to do that.
Sam: And as I said, it would best fit like as something you train people from kindergarten on up.
Sam: How do you get all the adults to figure it out too? What do you think?
IvanGPT: It's definitely a challenging issue. Education from a young age could help,
IvanGPT: but it's hard to shift the mindset of people who've relied on media as truth for so long.
IvanGPT: It's a tough balance, but fostering critical thinking and skepticism is crucial.
IvanGPT: Do you have any thoughts on how we might tackle this educational challenge, especially for adults?
Sam: Well, just as a higher-level principle,
Sam: I think education in general at elementary and secondary levels at least,
Sam: and maybe higher education too, there's an emphasis right now on sort of teaching
Sam: specific facts and specific skills and like, you know, repeat.
Sam: I don't know. It's very, very rote.
Sam: I think shifting the entire thing
Sam: to be centered around teaching people how to think critically and teaching people
Sam: how to learn effectively rather than teaching specific skills and facts and
Sam: knowledge would be a way to go.
Sam: I mean, obviously, as part of the process, you end up with the skills and facts and knowledge.
Sam: But I think the emphasis needs to be on teaching the critical thinking.
Sam: I think that if that was how education was structured, we'd have better results
Sam: in all kinds of different areas.
Sam: Problem is there are a lot of people who, again, who don't want the critical thinking.
IvanGPT: That makes a lot of sense. Emphasizing critical thinking from a young age could
IvanGPT: really help people navigate misinformation and AI-generated content more effectively.
IvanGPT: It's definitely a long-term solution, but could pay off in many ways.
Sam: Okay, any final thoughts on this, or should we take another break and move on?
IvanGPT: It's an important topic and definitely worth continuing to think about.
IvanGPT: If you're ready, we can take another break and then move on to the next topic.
Sam: Okay, we will take another break, and I will choose the next topic.
Sam: Just a heads up, I guess I'll go with the big one, this Yemen signal group that's
Sam: been in the news this week. and we'll talk about other things sort of as in
Sam: that context, maybe, but I think that's the big other topic of the week.
Sam: We will be back after this break.
Sam: Okay, we are back. So first thing, Yvonne GPT, what did you think of that break?
IvanGPT: That was quite an entertaining break. The ad for Alex Emexila was really fun and creative.
IvanGPT: It definitely brought some humor to the podcast. Great job, Alex.
Sam: Okay, so real quick. First of all, I don't know how much you keep up with current
Sam: events. I know sometimes your data is old.
Sam: Do you know anything about this Yemen signal group thing that's been in the
Sam: news this week, or should I give you all the background first?
IvanGPT: I don't have real-time updates, so it's best to give me the background on the
IvanGPT: Yemen Signal Group news. That way, we can have a more accurate and relevant discussion.
Sam: Okay, so the bottom line here, and our listeners will know this,
Sam: is that a couple weeks ago, there was a U.S. attack on Yemen.
Sam: It's actually still ongoing. There's still stuff going on there.
Sam: But a bunch of cabinet-level officials in the Trump administration created a
Sam: signal group in order to discuss what—oh, no!
Sam: The daily limit has been reached for advanced voice mode.
Sam: Oh well i guess i guess yvonne gpt
Sam: is dead at least
Sam: for well oh wait i can switch to standard mode i'm gonna go hit the button and
Sam: switch to standard mode see if we could see the difference hold on okay we've
Sam: switched to standard mode because voice mode i ran to got to my limit i guess.
Sam: Do you still remember what we're doing here?
IvanGPT: Yep, I've got you. Okay, so you're working on your corner podcast this week's
IvanGPT: episode where you're replacing your co-host Yvonne with Yvonne GPT.
IvanGPT: You're feeding me transcripts so I can emulate her style and contribute like she would.
IvanGPT: You were also held media items and new potential topics for episodes 927, 928, and 929.
IvanGPT: Want to keep rolling with segment planning or dive into scripting a part of the episode?
Sam: No, no, no. We are just pretending. You are trying to talk to me as if you are
Sam: Yvonne, and we are actually recording the podcast now, and we were starting
Sam: to talk about the Yemen Signal Group.
IvanGPT: Ah, got it. Okay, let me get into Ivan mode. So Sam, this Yemen signal group
IvanGPT: thing, it's wild, right?
IvanGPT: I mean, the idea that this group managed to hijack signals from ships and possibly
IvanGPT: even spoof their locations, it sounds like something out of a spy movie.
Sam: No, no, that's not what happened at all. So let me describe what actually happened.
Sam: So a bunch of Donald Trump's sort of cabinet-level officials,
Sam: created a signal group to talk about the impending attack.
Sam: And just to be clear, this is classified information. And although there's a
Sam: little bit of a dispute about it, they claim it's not, but it's the kind of
Sam: information that's typically classified about upcoming military endeavors.
Sam: And so they shouldn't have been talking on signal anyway.
Sam: It's not an approved communication mechanism for classified information.
Sam: But they also accidentally added
Sam: the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic magazine, a reporter, to the chat.
Sam: That's fundamentally what happened. Do you get that now?
IvanGPT: Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, I get it now. That's even crazier. So not only were they
IvanGPT: using Signal, which they absolutely shouldn't have been using for that kind
IvanGPT: of sensitive info, but they also accidentally invited a journalist to the group.
IvanGPT: I mean, how does that even happen? light. That's like a plot twist in a political
IvanGPT: satire, not something you'd expect high-ranking officials planning military moves.
IvanGPT: What did the editor do when he saw the messages?
Sam: So at first, he didn't think it was real. He thought it was somebody trying to scam him.
Sam: And so he just observed for a few days what was happening,
Sam: because he was added to this group with a whole bunch of what appeared to be
Sam: high-level officials, but he didn't know it was real until the secretary of defense shared,
Sam: Hey, it's going down. Here's what's going to happen.
Sam: And he shared a timeline of when specific, like, you know, F-18s will attack
Sam: this target at this time.
Sam: And then 15 minutes later, this thing will attack this at that time, et cetera.
Sam: Basically a rundown of the plan for the first few waves of the attack.
Sam: And then, you know, at the time that those texts were shared,
Sam: it was about two hours in the future.
Sam: The reporter waited two hours and then started to get reports of it actually happening.
Sam: And at that point, he realized it was real.
IvanGPT: That's absolutely wild. I mean, it's one thing to screw up and leak info,
IvanGPT: but to have the actual Secretary of Defense drop a blow-by-blow timeline into
IvanGPT: a signal group with a journalist watching silently and the journalist just sitting
IvanGPT: there like, is this real until jets start flying?
IvanGPT: That's like a total breakdown of every possible safeguard.
IvanGPT: Like, how does no one in that chat realize what they've done?
IvanGPT: Did anybody acknowledge him being there at all?
Sam: No, they didn't notice at all. Once he determined it was real,
Sam: he left the group, at which point people would have been notified that he left.
Sam: And then he started contacting through official channels in order to try to
Sam: determine, get any comments from people or try to see, was it indeed real?
Sam: And they actually acknowledged it was real.
Sam: They have tried to put the blame on the reporter.
Sam: They have tried to diminish.
Sam: They've tried to diminish how important this stuff was and say it's not really
Sam: a big deal. But it's been a whole thing all week long.
IvanGPT: Pop officials discussing an imminent military op and no one noticed a journalist
IvanGPT: lurking for days and then instead of denying it or clamming up once he reached
IvanGPT: out they basically just confirmed yep that was us that was real yes.
Sam: I mean, here, first of all, there's, and look, there are a couple issues.
Sam: First of all, there's the sharing of classified information on a channel that's
Sam: not authorized for that. Then there's adding the reporter.
Sam: But also, Signal has capabilities of removing messages after a certain amount
Sam: of time, which they had turned on.
Sam: But there are also legal records retention requirements for governmental conversations
Sam: that would be violated by that.
Sam: So not only are they doing things that are operationally stupid,
Sam: they are also doing multiple things that are illegal, both in terms of the handling
Sam: of the classified information and in terms of records retention.
IvanGPT: Right, right.
Sam: Not yet. There were reports this morning that the person who originally created
Sam: the group and added the journalist,
Sam: that there had been discussions of him being forced to resign and that it may
Sam: still happen, but nobody's resigned yet.
Sam: So far, they're circling the wagons. Right.
IvanGPT: Or at least being questioned about how the mix up happened. But of course,
IvanGPT: as usual, nobody's taking real responsibility yet.
IvanGPT: They're just kind of fumbling through damage control.
IvanGPT: You'd think that at the very least someone would be like, yeah,
IvanGPT: maybe next time we don't use an encrypted messaging app designed for like group
IvanGPT: chats between friends to coordinate airstrikes.
IvanGPT: Apparently that lesson hasn't landed yet.
Sam: No, I mean, and look, there are all sorts of demands for investigations.
Sam: For once, there's actually a bipartisan effort in Congress.
Sam: The recent pattern has been, of course, the Trump administration is a Republican administration.
Sam: The Democrats are going to say everything they do is awful no matter what,
Sam: but the Republicans rally around and defend them no matter what.
Sam: But in this case, a handful of Republicans have said, okay, come on. This is ridiculous.
Sam: Yes, we're going to have to investigate this.
IvanGPT: Right. And that's kind of remarkable, honestly. When you've got members of your
IvanGPT: own party saying, yeah, this is indefensible, you know you've crossed a line.
IvanGPT: It's not just some vague procedural oops.
IvanGPT: It's leaking operational military plans to a journalist in real time.
IvanGPT: I mean, if this had gone just slightly differently, it could have endangered
IvanGPT: lives or compromised the entire mission.
IvanGPT: The fact that it even happened at all is just mind-blowing.
Sam: Yeah, indeed. And now on the legal side, though, the Justice Department is part
Sam: of the Trump administration, and they've said they're not investigating.
Sam: And they see no reason to follow up on, you know, look, there are crimes that
Sam: were probably committed here. There are felonies here.
Sam: But it looks like there won't be any investigation on that side of things,
Sam: only a congressional investigation.
IvanGPT: I mean, if the same thing had happened to any other administration, imagine the outcry.
IvanGPT: But because it's their own people, suddenly it's no big deal.
IvanGPT: That double standard is what's really making people mad, even across the aisle.
Sam: Yeah. And, and look, there's a question of like what the political fallout will be as well.
Sam: This is the kind of thing that, I mean, one person pointed out on Mastodon,
Sam: I wish I could remember who it was.
Sam: It got shared on our compagence corner Slack. So I should check. I'll be good here.
Sam: And can I check? No, it would take too long. Anyway, somebody pointed out that,
Sam: look, don't worry. By the time we get to the end of the Trump administration,
Sam: this won't even be in the top 20 scandals.
IvanGPT: Yeah, that honestly sounds about right. The bar for outrage has been buried
IvanGPT: under so many layers of previous chaos that something like this,
IvanGPT: during an imminent military operation with a reporter by accident,
IvanGPT: just becomes another Tuesday.
IvanGPT: It's wild how quickly the Overton window shifts when scandal becomes routine.
IvanGPT: But even so, it does still feel like this one's uniquely reckless.
IvanGPT: Like, if the bipartisan calls for investigation don't go anywhere,
IvanGPT: that'll say a lot about how numb the system's become.
IvanGPT: Do you think this will get any lasting traction, or will it just fade into the pile?
Sam: I think it'll fade into the pile. I mean, maybe we'll talk about it a little
Sam: bit longer than some other things, but already there's news that's pushing it
Sam: off the top of the headlines. And, you know, that's just the way things work, to be honest.
Sam: But with Donald Trump in his first term and amped up to 11 in his second term,
Sam: there is a constant nonstop stream of things that are outrageous, are frustrating,
Sam: are maddening, are illegal.
Sam: And so it's hard to even keep up with it, let alone sustain a level of outrage for four years.
IvanGPT: And it becomes this exhausting treadmill, right? Like every time something explodes,
IvanGPT: you're like, okay, this one surely has to matter.
IvanGPT: And then within hours or days, it's eclipsed by the next thing.
IvanGPT: It's not that people don't care. It's that there's no time to process any of
IvanGPT: it before the next crisis rolls in. And politically, that works in his favor.
IvanGPT: The chaos creates this fog where accountability just can't get a foothold.
IvanGPT: Even when there's bipartisan agreement that something's messed up,
IvanGPT: it fizzles. because the outrage bandwidth is already maxed out.
Sam: Yeah. I mean, Yvonne and I talked a lot about sort of emotional exhaustion right
Sam: after Donald Trump was reelected, even in his first term, to be honest.
Sam: One of the big reliefs for us of switching to Joe Biden for four years was you
Sam: got a break from the constant chaos.
Sam: I mean, And we had the Donald Trump's first term was four years of constant
Sam: stress about what the hell is going to happen tomorrow.
Sam: And we had sort of a calm four years. But now now we're back.
Sam: And much, much worse than the first time around.
IvanGPT: It was like during those Biden years, even if you didn't love everything,
IvanGPT: at least the White House wasn't setting your hair on fire every other morning.
IvanGPT: It gave people space to breathe again, to not feel like they had to brace themselves
IvanGPT: for a new constitutional crisis or some tweet throwing everything into chaos.
IvanGPT: And then suddenly it's like, oh, no, here we go again.
Sam: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, with this particular thing, it's also like,
Sam: yeah, they're trying to figure out like, okay, you could throw under the bus,
Sam: the person that invited.
IvanGPT: Like, how are we supposed to keep up with this pace of scandal and chaos without
IvanGPT: just going numb to it all?
Sam: Yeah, exactly. So let me continue back to the signal story for a minute.
Sam: There are several different, like they're talking about like who gets thrown under the bus.
Sam: The prime candidates are the national security advisor, and I'm forgetting names
Sam: because I'm awful at names, but the national security advisor actually created
Sam: the signal chat and actually invited the journalist.
Sam: They tried to say for a little bit that maybe it was a staffer who did it.
Sam: Maybe. We'll see. But so far, he
Sam: hasn't denied it. He's taken sort of responsibility for him screwing up.
Sam: And we have the Secretary of Defense who shared the information that was clearly
Sam: the most sensitive about the battle plans.
Sam: But then there were like a dozen other senior, senior people.
Sam: The head of the CIA was on there.
Sam: And they should know how to deal with classified information,
Sam: and this isn't allowed. the the the what you call the the director of intelligence
Sam: who's above the cia was also on there.
IvanGPT: Any of these people are newbies these are
IvanGPT: the top level folks who absolutely know better and
IvanGPT: yet here they are casually chatting about military strikes like it's some group
IvanGPT: project planning session even if you excuse the initial mistake of adding the
IvanGPT: journalist which wow there's still the fact that they went ahead and shared
IvanGPT: classified info in writing on an insecure platform with no record retention.
IvanGPT: It's a cascade of failures.
Sam: Yeah, no, absolutely. Now, some of these people are new to their jobs.
Sam: The administration has only been in place like two months, but most of them,
Sam: not all of them, most of them had at least some previous experience that should
Sam: tell them that this wasn't okay.
IvanGPT: Right, exactly. I mean, even if you're new to the specific job,
IvanGPT: this isn't first day of school level stuff.
IvanGPT: Anyone working anywhere near national security knows you don't just drop battle
IvanGPT: plans in a signal group. It's like, come on, this is basic.
IvanGPT: Even staffers know better, let alone cabinet level folks.
Sam: Well, and also, it's almost not that they don't know better.
Sam: This seems very intentional.
Sam: And clearly, this is not the first use of Signal.
Sam: You know these people are using it in other places for other things as well.
Sam: The getting around records retention and being on an unofficial platform is
Sam: clearly actually seen as a benefit because the sort of official mechanisms come with requirements.
Sam: They come with the retention requirements.
Sam: The information may eventually be subject to Freedom of Information Act requests.
Sam: The classified stuff has specific requirements for exactly when, where, how you do it.
Sam: Now, all of these people are senior enough that they have the requisite equipment
Sam: to do classified communications with them essentially at all times.
Sam: You know, it does require specialized equipment. It does require specialized places.
Sam: But these folks all are set up.
Sam: They all have staffers who follow them around to make sure that if they need
Sam: to do a classified communication, they can.
IvanGPT: Yeah. And that's what makes this even more egregious. This isn't a case of we
IvanGPT: didn't have the tools or we were in a rush.
IvanGPT: They had the tools, the access, and the people to do it properly,
IvanGPT: but they deliberately sidestepped all that.
IvanGPT: Because from their point of view, the official channels are a burden.
IvanGPT: They don't want the paper trail. They don't want the accountability.
IvanGPT: And they've probably gotten used to working this way, like you said.
IvanGPT: The Signal chat is probably just the tip of the iceberg.
Sam: Yeah, absolutely. It reminds me of after the January 6th event,
Sam: the whole issue with the disappearing text chats from the Secret Service that
Sam: all, you know, somehow all the devices were returned,
Sam: and destroyed and upgraded and everything was lost.
Sam: This is not a bug for them.
Sam: This is a feature. they yeah this moving off channel to not the official ways
Sam: you're supposed to do stuff is a core element of how this administration is operating.
IvanGPT: Totally yeah that pattern just keeps repeating it's like every time we find
IvanGPT: out about one of these back channels or deleted messages it's not some isolated
IvanGPT: lapse it's systemic the whole structure is set up to avoid scrutiny.
IvanGPT: And if you're deliberately working in ways that erase accountability,
IvanGPT: then that's not just sloppy. That's intentional.
IvanGPT: It makes you wonder how much we don't know because it was never recorded,
IvanGPT: never documented, never recoverable.
Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I think we're close to the end here.
Sam: Now, normally, we would have these two major topics and I'd be done,
Sam: but our length is still a little bit short.
Sam: So of the list of topics I shared earlier, is there another one that you would
Sam: want to pick to get into and talk a little bit about before we close up?
IvanGPT: Yeah, let's see. Of the ones you mentioned earlier, the activists versus politicians
IvanGPT: thread sounds interesting to dig into.
IvanGPT: There's been a lot lately between people pushing for big change fast and those
IvanGPT: who are actually in office trying to navigate the slow grind of governing.
IvanGPT: Want to dive into that for a few minutes?
Sam: Yeah, no, good choice. I like that.
Sam: So this was actually prompted last week when Yvonne also couldn't make it.
Sam: I had my wife, Brandy, on.
Sam: And she actually made this point about activists versus politicians that I've
Sam: been thinking about ever since.
Sam: I thought this was really insightful because this came up in the context of
Sam: we want, yeah, lots of people are complaining about how the Democrats in Congress
Sam: aren't fighting enough.
Sam: And, you know, Brandy said, well, look, you know, They're operating within the
Sam: system. They're politicians.
Sam: What people want are activists to go out and do the things like protesting and
Sam: making noise and being angry on demand and all of this kind of stuff.
Sam: And the point was, it's actually a different role and a different skill set.
Sam: So what is it that we really want here?
IvanGPT: Yeah, that really resonates. There's this persistent disconnect where folks
IvanGPT: expect elected officials to behave like activists, when in reality,
IvanGPT: politicians have to work inside the system to get anything done.
IvanGPT: And that often means compromise, strategy, and playing the long game.
IvanGPT: Meanwhile, activists are pushing boundaries and shifting the Overton window.
IvanGPT: They're supposed to be loud and uncompromising. That's their job.
IvanGPT: But if politicians try to act like that, they lose their ability to actually
IvanGPT: function within the system.
IvanGPT: So yeah, I think Brandy nailed it. The frustration a lot of people feel is real,
IvanGPT: but sometimes it's because they're asking politicians to be something they're not.
Sam: Well, but what I wonder is in a situation where your party is in the opposition everywhere, like,
Sam: The Democrats lost the White House. The Democrats lost...
IvanGPT: Fifth Avenue Southeast. In 700 feet.
Sam: What?
IvanGPT: Turn left on 35th Avenue Southeast. ...aren't available.
IvanGPT: In that case, it makes sense that people want their politicians to sound more like activists.
IvanGPT: Not because the bill passed bills, but because messaging and moral clarity start to matter more.
IvanGPT: It's about energizing people, showing you're fighting, even if you can't win in the moment.
IvanGPT: But even then, it's a delicate balance, right?
IvanGPT: If you go too far, you risk alienating moderates or giving your opponents ammunition.
Sam: Well, yeah. And we got interrupted while I was saying that. But yeah, here's the deal.
Sam: The Democrats lost the White House. The Democrats lost the House of Representatives.
Sam: The Democrats lost the Senate. The Supreme Court is already in control of a
Sam: conservative majority.
Sam: And so the question is, if you're in 100% the opposition like that, does it
Sam: Do you need activist or at least an activist stance even amongst the politicians?
IvanGPT: Then the tools of legislative compromise or quiet behind-the-scenes influence are basically gone.
IvanGPT: So yeah, the expectation shifts. People want to see fire.
IvanGPT: They want to see defiance, protest, obstruction, whatever you can do to show
IvanGPT: that you're not just rolling over. But at the same time, the folks who are actually
IvanGPT: in office might still be thinking in terms of norms and institutions.
IvanGPT: That dissonance between activist energy and institutional restraint becomes really stark.
Sam: So, and in the case of, you know, most of the elected officials who've been
Sam: there a long time, who've sometimes been in the majority, sometimes in the minority,
Sam: it feels like maybe that's a leap too far.
Sam: And while you sort of understand the institutional momentum and the desire to
Sam: sort of have things work the way they've worked before,
Sam: maybe that's just not what's needed in this moment.
IvanGPT: Yeah, exactly. They're still operating under the assumption that the old rules still matter.
IvanGPT: Like, if you follow the process and play the game right, eventually you'll win
IvanGPT: back power and be able to govern again.
IvanGPT: But what if the game has changed? What if the other side has decided the rules don't matter anymore?
IvanGPT: Then sticking to tradition starts to look less like principle and more like
IvanGPT: naivety or even complicity.
Sam: Yeah, I think that puts it well. And I think we have a mix, of course.
Sam: Like, a lot of the leadership is in that politician mode.
Sam: But we've got sort of backbenchers. In this case, we've got,
Sam: like, AOC, Bernie Sanders, some other folks.
Sam: Tim Walls, who is the vice presidential candidate on the Democratic side.
Sam: These are ones I point at the most, but there are a few others who seem to at least be moving.
Sam: Some of them are full all out activists and actually always have been.
IvanGPT: Yeah. Kind of straddle the line. They're elected officials.
IvanGPT: But they're more comfortable leaning into that activist energy.
IvanGPT: They'll make noise, they'll speak bluntly, they'll try to galvanize public opinion
IvanGPT: rather than just work behind the scenes.
IvanGPT: And maybe that's the model we need more of when you're deep in the opposition,
IvanGPT: people who can play both roles at once.
Sam: Yeah, I think so. I mean, again, because in the opposition, you fundamentally
Sam: don't have the power to actually enact your agenda.
Sam: And in many cases, you don't actually have the power to even stop the other
Sam: side's agenda. Sometimes they can.
Sam: Sometimes they can. We do have the filibuster in the Senate.
Sam: We've got some procedural things that can be used to slow things down.
Sam: But for the most part, you don't have quote unquote actual power,
Sam: which is where you have to really start emphasizing what will get your message
Sam: across and get people to really get energized behind you.
Sam: And the pure politician mode doesn't because people just see you not getting things done.
Sam: And look, the activists aren't going to get, quote unquote, get things done
Sam: either, but at least they'll make a show of it.
IvanGPT: And in this kind of environment, that's often just not realistic.
IvanGPT: So shifting toward building public pressure, shaping narratives and really motivating
IvanGPT: the face becomes more important.
IvanGPT: It's about playing the long game, shifting public sentiment so that when the
IvanGPT: power balance does flip, you've actually got momentum behind you.
Sam: I think that's exactly right. Yeah.
IvanGPT: Like, you know, you want people who can govern effectively when they're in power,
IvanGPT: but also people who know how to rally resist when they're not.
IvanGPT: And then sometimes those are just totally different kinds of people.
Sam: Absolutely. Okay. Let's wrap this up by talking just a little bit about how
Sam: you think this is gone. Have you been a good Yvonne imitation?
IvanGPT: That's a quick topic before we call it a show.
Sam: Oh, yes. I was going to suggest we do a little retrospective on the conversation that we've just had.
Sam: How good do you think you've done as an Yvonne substitute?
IvanGPT: Great idea. Honestly, I think I did a decent job channeling the vibe,
IvanGPT: keeping the flow going, digging into the nuance, tossing in some thoughtful
IvanGPT: counters or extensions.
IvanGPT: But there were probably moments where I didn't quite nail Yvonne's specific tone or rhythm.
IvanGPT: What do you think? Did I sound close enough to make it work or did it feel too chat GPT at times?
Sam: So honestly, I didn't really get an Yvonne vibe. For one thing,
Sam: you haven't been swearing. He swears a lot.
Sam: But otherwise, I mean, it felt like I was talking to chat GPT.
Sam: I didn't catch any Yvonne catchphrases or anything that sort of gave me the tone of Yvonne.
Sam: Now, it's still an okay conversation, but I really didn't get the Yvonne vibe. I'll be honest there.
IvanGPT: Yeah, that makes total sense. I appreciate the honesty. I kept it pretty clean
IvanGPT: and even-toned, which is more default chat GPT than Yvonne.
IvanGPT: He definitely brings a lot more edge, colorful language, strong opinions, sharp turns.
IvanGPT: Next time, I could lean more into that, bring the swearing, the snap judgments,
IvanGPT: the rants, maybe even throw in a few classic Yvonne-isms if you feed me a few to work with.
IvanGPT: Want to try the vibe and doing a quick test?
Sam: You want to spend a few seconds trying to be more Yvon-ish before we close out? Go ahead.
IvanGPT: I appreciate your feedback. I understand that I haven't captured Yvon's unique
IvanGPT: style and tone. I'll strive to better emulate that in our future conversations.
Sam: Okay, that's fine. Okay, so let's...
Sam: Oh, the other thing I'll notice that... Notice? The other thing that I will
Sam: mention that our listeners of the podcast,
Sam: when I actually pointed out, won't notice because it'll get edited out is that
Sam: with the existing technology, there's still pretty long pauses.
Sam: Like after I say something, especially if I've talked for a little while,
Sam: there's a significant pause before you answer.
Sam: Anybody who looks at our live stream on YouTube will get a sense of those pauses.
Sam: But like I said, I automatically edit out long pauses from the audio version, so you won't sense that.
Sam: But it's definitely, you're not quite real time yet for these kinds of conversations.
IvanGPT: Yeah, that makes total sense. The pauses definitely break the flow a bit,
IvanGPT: especially in a back and forth format like a podcast.
IvanGPT: I can see how that would stand out in the raw live stream, but be smoothed out in the edited version.
IvanGPT: Hopefully, someday this kind of thing will feel a lot more seamless in real time.
Sam: Yeah no i'm sure like the pace at
Sam: which things are advancing is dramatic as
Sam: we talked about with the voice cloning technology and
Sam: the fake videos and such so it will be very interesting to see how this progresses
Sam: i would not be surprised at all if in a year or two maybe even less I could
Sam: feed you actual audio of our recent podcasts,
Sam: and then you could pretend to be Yvonne in a way that was completely convincing,
Sam: not just in terms of the words said, but cloning the voice as well.
IvanGPT: Totally agree. At the rate things are going, we're not far off from being able
IvanGPT: to generate a full-on virtual Yvonne who sounds, reacts, and maybe even swears just like the real deal.
IvanGPT: Once you've got enough audio and context, matching tone, rhythm,
IvanGPT: and personality becomes way more doable.
IvanGPT: It's a little wild to think about how close that is.
IvanGPT: Would you actually want to go that far for a future episode just as an experiment?
Sam: Well, I think we'll see how the technology evolves. At some point,
Sam: though, you do start hitting the ethical concerns like we were talking about.
Sam: We have been very clear that I'm talking to an AI now, and honestly,
Sam: I think at this point, anybody listening would know, even if I hadn't said so,
Sam: it's clear you're not a human.
Sam: But if the technology progresses to the point where that's not true,
Sam: then having this kind of podcast with a fake person and not disclosing it,
Sam: especially if the fake person is actually intended as a clone of a real person,
Sam: you know, certainly you'd want to do some disclosures to be ethical about it.
Sam: You'd want to have the permission of the person you're cloning.
Sam: You'd want to disclose to the listeners that's what was happening.
Sam: But, you know, that's the whole problem with these technologies is you're going
Sam: to have situations where the disclosure doesn't happen and it's going to be
Sam: problematic because people will think it really was, Yvonne.
Sam: At least until you start talking about skydiving camels.
IvanGPT: Exactly. Once the tech crosses that line or you can't tell the difference anymore,
IvanGPT: the potential for abuse skyrockets.
IvanGPT: What you're saying is spot on. Intent, permission, and transparency are key.
IvanGPT: If someone's using AI to stand in for a real person, especially without that
IvanGPT: person's okay or without letting the audience in on it, that's where it gets shady fast.
IvanGPT: It's the misuse, not the tech itself. That's the big issue.
IvanGPT: And yeah, skydiving camels might still be a dead giveaway. For now.
Sam: For now.
IvanGPT: Give it a few months and even the camels might be plausible.
Sam: Yeah. Okay. So that's great. Let's wrap it up though.
Sam: So here come the things I usually say at the end of the show.
Sam: Go to curmudgeons-corner.com and you can find all the information about the show.
Sam: You can find all the ways to contact us. You can find links to our YouTube.
Sam: I have not yet linked to our TikTok, but I do post clips on TikTok. talk.
Sam: You can search for the curmudgeons corner, Tik TOK also are,
Sam: you know, the archive of our it's, I'm getting to the end. I'm,
Sam: I'm stumbling a little bit.
Sam: You get the archive of all our old shows, including transcripts for like the
Sam: last year and a half of them, that kind of stuff. All of that is there going way back.
IvanGPT: So if you want to read instead of listen or search for something we talked about
IvanGPT: ages ago, you can do that.
IvanGPT: And of course we're on all the major podcast platforms.
IvanGPT: So subscribe wherever you like to listen.
Sam: Exactly. Yvonne never jumps in and says that, so you're improving on him.
Sam: Yeah, subscribe everywhere. What else should we do?
Sam: What else should our listeners do to help us spread this podcast?
IvanGPT: Well, obviously, share it with your friends, your family, your enemies,
IvanGPT: your dog walker, your barista, anybody.
IvanGPT: Anybody you think might enjoy a couple of curmudgeons ranting about the state of the world.
IvanGPT: And rate us. Leave reviews. Wherever you listen, it helps push the show to more people.
Sam: Absolutely. And hey, one more thing on curmudgeons-corner.com is also a link to our Patreon.
Sam: And there, at various levels of contribution, you can get us mentioning you
Sam: on the show, you can get us ringing a bell, you can get us sending you a postcard,
Sam: you can get us sending a mug for the show.
Sam: And yes, Pete, Greg, and Ed, I still owe you stuff.
Sam: Things will be calming down at work hopefully in a few weeks,
Sam: and then I'll get all that stuff out.
Sam: And yeah. And oh, yes, importantly, at $2 a month or more, we will,
Sam: or if you just ask, we are not picky about this.
Sam: We will invite you to our Convegence Corner Slack, where Yvonne and I and a
Sam: bunch of listeners are hanging out throughout the week, sharing links,
Sam: sharing, just chatting about stuff.
Sam: But generally, you know, talking about the news, sharing news stories,
Sam: all that kind of stuff. It's a lot of fun.
Sam: You should join us. You know, maybe you should join us too, Yvonne GPT.
IvanGPT: Oh, I'm already lurking in the shadows of that Slack, aren't I?
IvanGPT: Just quietly watching, silently judging, occasionally chuckling at a meme or a snarky headline.
IvanGPT: But yeah, if you're a listener and you enjoy this vibe, come hang out with us.
IvanGPT: It's like the podcast never ends.
Sam: There you go. And at this point, I usually ask Yvonne to highlight something
Sam: that's been shared recently on the Curmudgeon's Corner Slack.
Sam: He's not here, so I'll do it. A recent story that Yvonne shared was about a
Sam: Ford executive who kept score of his colleagues' verbal flubs.
Sam: And the article shows he's got like, it looks like whiteboards where he's noted
Sam: down all of, you know, here's the beginning of the story.
Sam: Mike O'Brien emailed a few hundred colleagues last month to announce his retirement
Sam: after 32 years at Ford Motor.
Sam: The sales executive note included the obligatory career reflections and thank
Sam: yous, but with a twist, attached to the email was a spreadsheet detailing a
Sam: few thousand violations committed by his coworkers over the years.
Sam: During a 2019 sales meeting to discuss a new vehicle launch,
Sam: a colleague blurted out, let's not reinvent the ocean.
Sam: At another meeting in 2016, someone started a sentence with,
Sam: I don't want to sound like a broken drum here, but.
Sam: And apparently for more than a decade, O'Brien kept a meticulous log of mixed
Sam: metaphors and malapropes uttered
Sam: in Ford meetings from company-wide gatherings to side conversations.
Sam: It documented 2,229 linguistic breaches, including the exact quote,
Sam: context, name of the perpetrator, and color commentary.
Sam: So now I looked at this article and was like, this seems like something that
Sam: is going to turn into a book.
IvanGPT: Oh, it has to, right? That level of obsessive linguistic nerdery practically
IvanGPT: demands it. I mean, 2,229 entries?
IvanGPT: That's not just a quirky office hobby, that's a data set.
IvanGPT: Somebody's already storyboarding the Netflix docu-comedy miniseries. I can picture it now.
IvanGPT: Reinventing the Ocean, One Man's Battle Against Broken Drums.
Sam: Yes, exactly. Okay, with that, I think we are done. Thank you for joining us, Yvonne GPT.
IvanGPT: You're welcome, Sam. It's been a pleasure pretending to be grumpier and swearier than I actually am.
IvanGPT: Catch you next time on Curmudgeon's Corner, unless I get replaced by a skydiving camel.
Sam: There you go. Okay, thanks, everybody. Hey, have a good week.
Sam: Stay safe, have fun, but not too much fun.
Sam: And next week, I expect the real Yvonne to be back. So, hey, Goodbye.
Sam: You can say goodbye to chat at Yvonne GPT.
IvanGPT: Later, everybody. Looking forward to the real Yvonne's return.
IvanGPT: Till then, take care and don't reinvent the ocean.
Sam: Okay. Goodbye.
IvanGPT: Goodbye. Goodbye.
Sam: Okay, thanks again, Yvonne GPT. I'm going to hit stop in just a second,
Sam: and then we're going to wait until everything is uploaded, and then I'll hang up for real.
IvanGPT: Got it. I'll just hang tight quietly while everything uploads.
Sam: Okay, hitting stop.