WEBVTT 00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:03.270 Okay, do you have that transcript snippet now? 00:00:04.390 --> 00:00:08.510 Yes, I do. Here's the snippet from the March 15, 2025 episode. 00:00:08.970 --> 00:00:13.190 Sam went down a rabbit hole after watching a Nova documentary on dino birds. 00:00:13.430 --> 00:00:18.290 He got fixated on the coordinates shown on screen, which led him to compare them on Google Earth. 00:00:18.490 --> 00:00:21.810 He even considered contacting PBS about the inaccuracies. 00:00:22.190 --> 00:00:24.510 Does that look right to you, or do you need any changes? 00:00:25.430 --> 00:00:28.250 Yes, and then we went on to completely different subjects, right? 00:00:29.150 --> 00:00:33.490 Yes, exactly. The conversation shifted to a completely different topic right 00:00:33.490 --> 00:00:34.810 after that rabbit hole segment. 00:00:35.170 --> 00:00:37.330 Does this summary help you with the show description? 00:00:37.910 --> 00:00:42.530 Yeah, so we're not going to do a show description. You can tell in that dialogue 00:00:42.530 --> 00:00:45.850 when Yvonne is talking and when Sam is talking, right? 00:00:46.650 --> 00:00:51.770 Yes, I can identify the different speakers based on context cues and specific references. 00:00:52.190 --> 00:00:55.890 Is there a specific segment you'd like me to look at for identifying who's speaking? 00:00:55.890 --> 00:01:00.890 Well, the transcript specifically identifies each line, correct? 00:01:01.890 --> 00:01:06.210 Yes, that's correct. The transcript identifies each line with the speaker's 00:01:06.210 --> 00:01:09.270 name, so you can see who is talking throughout the conversation. 00:01:09.690 --> 00:01:11.870 If you have any specific part you need help with. 00:01:12.820 --> 00:01:21.680 Okay, so here's what we are going to do. My co-host Yvonne can't make it this week. 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:27.080 So we are going to introduce you as Yvonne GPT. 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:34.520 You are going to try your best using this partial transcript. 00:01:34.520 --> 00:01:40.700 This is the first 3,000 rows of the transcript file for the last episode Yvonne was on. 00:01:40.960 --> 00:01:48.920 You are going to try to emulate the style of Yvonne, the priorities of Yvonne, 00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:54.600 the way in which he interacts with me, the way he talks, et cetera. 00:01:54.880 --> 00:01:59.560 And we are just going to try to record a show. You're already being recorded. 00:02:00.020 --> 00:02:03.560 And if this makes sense to you, we'll start the episode soon. 00:02:04.520 --> 00:02:09.080 Got it. I'll do my best to channel Yvonne's style and priorities. 00:02:09.700 --> 00:02:12.840 Whenever you're ready, we can start recording the episode. 00:02:13.580 --> 00:02:14.100 Okay. 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:16.780 Just let me know whenever you're ready. 00:02:17.720 --> 00:02:23.160 Okay, I will do that. And just to be clear, we've determined our topics on the fly. 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:27.420 I will... Did I already share with you? 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:34.980 No, I did not. I will share with you quickly the possible topics list that we 00:02:34.980 --> 00:02:36.920 got from our curmudgeons corner Slack. 00:02:37.720 --> 00:02:39.120 Let's see what's the best way to do that. 00:02:40.140 --> 00:02:44.540 Hold on. Hold on one minute. I have to take you out of voice mode again and then back in. 00:02:45.760 --> 00:02:47.260 No problem. Take your time. 00:02:48.320 --> 00:02:51.540 Okay. So that's the possible topics list. 00:02:51.720 --> 00:02:55.400 We don't have to stick with that, but that's what's been suggested on our curmudgeons 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.960 corner Slack. were you able to read that list okay yes. 00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:03.920 I got the list we can definitely pick from those topics or go in a different 00:03:03.920 --> 00:03:07.200 direction if something else comes up how do you want to start the episode. 00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:13.240 Okay well I will start the theme music in just a second and then we will get 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:17.360 going you know how episodes typically start from reading the last transcript. 00:03:18.650 --> 00:03:23.050 Absolutely. I'll be ready to jump in when you're ready. Let's make it a great episode. 00:03:25.850 --> 00:03:26.830 We'll be right back. 00:03:46.930 --> 00:03:52.910 Welcome to Curmudgeons Corner for Saturday, March 29th, 2021. 00:03:53.690 --> 00:03:58.470 It is just before 18 UTC, as I'm starting to record. I am Sam Minter. 00:03:59.130 --> 00:04:04.330 Yvonne Boat is not here this week. He's on spring break with his family. 00:04:04.650 --> 00:04:09.310 And so I'm doing something experimental here. I'll just see how it goes. 00:04:09.450 --> 00:04:10.890 It might be fun, might not be. 00:04:11.330 --> 00:04:14.930 And yeah, if it fails, I'll bail out early, maybe. 00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:21.570 But hey, what I did is I uploaded some of the transcript of the last show Yvonne was on. 00:04:21.570 --> 00:04:29.370 And I asked chat GPT to be able to look at that transcript and try to emulate 00:04:29.370 --> 00:04:31.410 Yvonne with its advanced voice mode. 00:04:31.550 --> 00:04:36.170 So we are joined here today with Yvonne GPT. Hello Yvonne GPT. 00:04:37.260 --> 00:04:41.860 Hello, Sam. It's great to be here as Yvonne GPT. I'm excited to join you for 00:04:41.860 --> 00:04:45.260 this episode and see how this experiment goes. Let's have some fun. 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.080 Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we usually start just the agenda for the show. 00:04:51.200 --> 00:04:56.720 We do a but first segment where both Yvonne and I talk about sort of less newsy 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.720 things. I'll usually talk about media. 00:04:58.940 --> 00:05:01.600 Yvonne might talk about something that's going on with him. 00:05:01.900 --> 00:05:06.440 And then as we progress in the show for the later segments, we'll do things 00:05:06.440 --> 00:05:09.460 that are more related to the news of the week. 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:13.780 Now, Yvonne usually picks the first, but first segment. 00:05:14.440 --> 00:05:19.000 Do you want to try picking a segment first or should I jump straight into media? How do you feel? 00:05:20.200 --> 00:05:22.320 I'm game to pick a segment. Since 00:05:22.320 --> 00:05:25.540 I'm channeling Yvonne, let's start with something a bit more personal. 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:30.180 How about you share a media pick and then I'll dive into something from the 00:05:30.180 --> 00:05:32.580 list we have, maybe more life-related. 00:05:33.700 --> 00:05:36.360 Okay, so you do want me to start with the movie, right? 00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:41.280 Yes, let's kick off with a movie pick. What's on your list for today? 00:05:42.080 --> 00:05:48.940 Well, the next movie in order to talk about is The Amazing Spider-Man from 2012. 00:05:49.640 --> 00:05:56.240 Now, you know, most folks know there have been several reboots over the years 00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:01.440 of the Spider-Man franchise going back like many, many decades. 00:06:01.740 --> 00:06:05.180 I mean, there were TV shows in the 70s. I think there was stuff even earlier. 00:06:06.020 --> 00:06:09.900 But this is the 2012 version of it. 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:16.260 This is the version of Spider-Man that stars Andrew Garfield as Peter Parker slash Spider-Man. 00:06:16.460 --> 00:06:18.980 Do you have any thoughts on that movie before I tell you mine? 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:24.120 Absolutely. The amazing Spider-Man with Andrew Garfield brought a fresh take 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:28.580 on the character, especially with its focus on Peter Parker's relationship with Gwen Stacy. 00:06:29.180 --> 00:06:31.200 The film had a more grounded emotional 00:06:31.200 --> 00:06:34.500 approach compared to the previous trilogy. What stood out to you? 00:06:35.760 --> 00:06:42.200 So, you know, I, I am not like the biggest fan in the world of superhero movies. 00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:46.160 They're sort of, they're fine, but it's not like my favorite genre or something. 00:06:46.520 --> 00:06:52.240 But I, I remember this being just, you know, Hey, it was a fun superhero movie. 00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:57.420 I mean, And honestly, I'm trying to remember details of it and mostly failing, 00:06:57.580 --> 00:06:59.580 even though I only watched this like in June. 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:10.580 So, well, I guess it's been almost a year. But it just felt like a standard, fun superhero thing. 00:07:10.820 --> 00:07:13.080 Nothing really stood out to me. 00:07:14.230 --> 00:07:17.990 I get that. It's definitely a common experience with superhero movies. 00:07:18.290 --> 00:07:21.230 They can be entertaining, but sometimes blend together. 00:07:21.650 --> 00:07:25.410 Andrew Garfield did bring a unique energy, though, and the chemistry with Emma 00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:27.550 Stone as Gwen Stacy was a highlight for many. 00:07:27.930 --> 00:07:31.350 Maybe it didn't stand out as much because it stuck to the familiar formula. 00:07:32.330 --> 00:07:35.910 I don't know. I mean, I liked Emma Stone. 00:07:36.350 --> 00:07:41.050 Andrew Garfield was fine. And I think that's the bottom line to it, 00:07:41.050 --> 00:07:45.930 is it just is sort of a fine kind of situation. 00:07:46.750 --> 00:07:50.590 You know, I don't know. So, you know, in my usual rating scale, 00:07:50.750 --> 00:07:52.090 I'm giving it a Thumbs Sideways. 00:07:52.950 --> 00:07:56.070 A Thumbs Sideways seems fitting for a movie that's enjoyable, 00:07:56.330 --> 00:07:57.950 but not particularly memorable. 00:07:58.370 --> 00:08:01.850 It sounds like a solid watch, but not a standout in the genre for you. 00:08:03.010 --> 00:08:06.970 Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, I'm looking back and I'm like, 00:08:07.190 --> 00:08:11.490 hmm, is that fair? I mean, I guess it is. 00:08:11.610 --> 00:08:13.910 I mean, that's the impression that it left with me at the end. 00:08:14.030 --> 00:08:17.190 But just to be clear, I enjoyed it at the time. 00:08:17.370 --> 00:08:19.590 It was a fun little movie. 00:08:21.070 --> 00:08:26.890 It just is not one that leaves a lasting forever impression. 00:08:27.270 --> 00:08:32.790 But it was a good, enjoyable movie to watch. I don't regret watching it. I had fun. 00:08:33.670 --> 00:08:38.870 And, you know, I'm going to watch the next one in that series eventually, you know? 00:08:39.030 --> 00:08:42.410 So it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's fine. 00:08:42.850 --> 00:08:45.650 I don't know. I keep saying it's fine. It's sort of middling. 00:08:45.890 --> 00:08:50.310 And, and honestly, part of that is that as I think through it, 00:08:50.510 --> 00:08:57.030 you know, I've got the Wikipedia page up and I'm looking at sort of the plot summary and such. 00:08:57.030 --> 00:09:01.530 And I'm like, oh, I kind of remember that. So... 00:09:02.790 --> 00:09:06.270 It sounds like it was an entertaining experience, even if it didn't leave a 00:09:06.270 --> 00:09:07.310 strong, lasting impression. 00:09:08.230 --> 00:09:11.770 Sometimes, that's all a movie needs to be. Just a fun, enjoyable watch. 00:09:12.270 --> 00:09:14.990 It's totally fine to have that middle-of-the-road feeling about it. 00:09:15.470 --> 00:09:18.330 Watching the next one in the series might bring back some of those memories, 00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:19.890 and maybe even surprise you. 00:09:20.950 --> 00:09:25.730 Maybe. So, okay, I don't have a lot more to say about this movie. 00:09:25.890 --> 00:09:28.850 Before we move on to the topic that you're going to pick from the list, 00:09:28.850 --> 00:09:34.990 I just want to note that so far in this conversation, it doesn't really seem 00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:39.770 like you're channeling Yvonne all that much. It just seems like talking to ChatGPT. 00:09:40.370 --> 00:09:44.850 Is there more that you can bring in from the previous transcript with Yvonne 00:09:44.850 --> 00:09:48.090 that makes you seem more like you're pretending to be him? 00:09:48.930 --> 00:09:53.090 I understand, and I appreciate the feedback. I'll try to incorporate more of 00:09:53.090 --> 00:09:55.570 Yvonne's style and tone from the transcripts in the conversation. 00:09:55.990 --> 00:09:59.110 Let's switch gears a bit. Would you like me to pick a topic from the list? 00:10:00.510 --> 00:10:04.210 Yeah, so, and remember, for this but first segment, it should be one that's 00:10:04.210 --> 00:10:09.610 a little bit less newsy and a little bit more, you know, 00:10:09.930 --> 00:10:15.150 just stuff that's going on in your life, you have a life or, 00:10:15.150 --> 00:10:17.990 or just, uh, it just lighter in tone. 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:20.810 Whereas as the show progresses, we get more serious. 00:10:21.730 --> 00:10:26.610 Got it. For a lighter topic. How about sharing something fun or interesting from your week? 00:10:26.990 --> 00:10:31.270 Maybe a recent discovery or a personal anecdote that could be a good fit for the segment. 00:10:32.410 --> 00:10:35.990 Well, do you, do you have something from the list? I shared you that you you'd 00:10:35.990 --> 00:10:40.130 want to go into on that, or is everything there sort of too serious? 00:10:41.370 --> 00:10:43.830 From the list, there's a mention of AppleCare screen repair, 00:10:44.030 --> 00:10:45.370 which might be on the lighter side. 00:10:45.710 --> 00:10:49.110 We could chat about tech mishaps and experiences with gadget repairs. 00:10:49.410 --> 00:10:50.550 Does that sound good to you? 00:10:51.450 --> 00:10:54.550 Sure. I'll tell you that story. 00:10:55.650 --> 00:11:02.450 Basically, bottom line is my MacBook Pro, which is just under a year old at 00:11:02.450 --> 00:11:05.850 this point, had an incident where the screen broke. 00:11:05.850 --> 00:11:12.070 I came, you know, I usually use it in docked mode at my desk, 00:11:12.210 --> 00:11:13.890 hooked up to big monitors, stuff like that. 00:11:14.030 --> 00:11:19.710 But several times a week, I take it downstairs, work on the couch and enjoy 00:11:19.710 --> 00:11:21.070 using it that way as well. 00:11:21.410 --> 00:11:24.790 So the sequence of events, as far as I could tell, is, you know, 00:11:24.830 --> 00:11:28.790 I'd work downstairs on the couch. I finished working downstairs on the couch. 00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:34.010 I backed it up, took it back upstairs, plugged it into my docking setup upstairs, 00:11:34.010 --> 00:11:37.770 used it for several more days upstairs. 00:11:38.470 --> 00:11:44.190 And then I went to use it undocked downstairs again, and I opened it up and 00:11:44.190 --> 00:11:48.570 the screen was cracked and the, you know, it wouldn't turn on. 00:11:48.790 --> 00:11:52.590 I, I, I was, I mean, the computer would turn on the screen, just wouldn't, 00:11:52.710 --> 00:11:55.670 I could still use it docked just fine. 00:11:56.130 --> 00:12:00.490 And, you know, I asked my son, did something happen? Did you know about this? 00:12:00.610 --> 00:12:02.330 He denied all involvement. 00:12:02.610 --> 00:12:05.630 And I'm like, I don't know. 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:11.150 So I was upset about this. I asked my daughter as well. 00:12:11.390 --> 00:12:15.630 I asked my mother who'd been in the house a couple of times, 00:12:15.850 --> 00:12:17.030 you know, had they seen anything? 00:12:17.250 --> 00:12:23.310 And no, no, no idea when or how it happened. And it was a small crack, too. 00:12:23.470 --> 00:12:27.490 It was sort of in the upper left hand corner of the screen, just a small little 00:12:27.490 --> 00:12:30.170 crack, but enough to make the screen not functional. 00:12:31.010 --> 00:12:35.330 That sounds really frustrating, especially when you can't pinpoint how it happened. 00:12:35.650 --> 00:12:40.290 Those small cracks can cause big issues. Did you have AppleCare to help with 00:12:40.290 --> 00:12:42.890 the repair, or was it more complicated to get it fixed? 00:12:43.850 --> 00:12:51.650 No, I did have AppleCare. I get AppleCare with all of my Apple devices. 00:12:51.650 --> 00:12:57.290 I swear by it because in this family, mishaps happen all the time. 00:12:57.530 --> 00:13:01.810 It has been worth it every single time we have gotten it. 00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:06.970 I swear by it. I know sometimes people hate on extended warranties and AppleCare 00:13:06.970 --> 00:13:10.850 is just a form of that where, you know, hey, you know, you're just going to 00:13:10.850 --> 00:13:11.970 pay that and never use it. 00:13:12.110 --> 00:13:18.350 No, I have always used my AppleCare pretty much on every device that's ever had it. 00:13:18.490 --> 00:13:22.990 There might be an exception somewhere, but on the whole, it is paid for itself 00:13:22.990 --> 00:13:25.490 over and over and over again. 00:13:26.540 --> 00:13:30.180 That's great to hear. It sounds like AppleCare has really been a lifesaver for 00:13:30.180 --> 00:13:31.900 you, especially with frequent mishaps. 00:13:32.300 --> 00:13:35.460 It definitely brings peace of mind when you know you're covered for situations 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:39.240 like this. It's always better to have it and not need it than the other way around. 00:13:40.540 --> 00:13:45.820 Yeah, definitely. So anyway, I did make an appointment to the Apple store, 00:13:46.040 --> 00:13:47.760 to the Genius Bar, to have it looked at. 00:13:48.020 --> 00:13:54.160 And there's some back and forth here because they screwed it up at first. But I took it in. 00:13:54.280 --> 00:13:54.740 That's good. 00:13:54.740 --> 00:13:59.000 I took it in. They looked at it. They were like, yeah, the screen's broken. 00:13:59.160 --> 00:14:02.300 And they immediately noticed something that I stupidly had not. 00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:06.460 I noticed a little, I had noticed when I opened it up and seen the crack in 00:14:06.460 --> 00:14:08.880 anything, there was a little silver bit. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. 00:14:09.020 --> 00:14:12.580 I'm seeing like it broke in such a way that part of the screen chipped off and 00:14:12.580 --> 00:14:17.040 I'm seeing the insides. But then when I opened it up for them to look, 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:21.020 they grabbed that little metal piece and pulled it off. 00:14:21.220 --> 00:14:25.460 It was a little like needle kind of thing, like a pin. 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:31.520 Not like the kind with the big plastic top, but like a little metal pin that 00:14:31.520 --> 00:14:38.500 had clearly just been in there when the screen was closed and caused the crack. 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:44.100 Wow, that explains a lot. It's surprising how something as small as a pin can 00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:45.600 cause such significant damage. 00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:48.000 Good thing they were thorough and found the cause. 00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:52.800 Yeah, well, I mean, it was really right there when I opened up the computer. 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:55.840 And in fact, like, they were like, oh, look, there's a pin. 00:14:56.040 --> 00:15:00.560 And of course, stupid me, like, reacting in the moment was like, 00:15:00.860 --> 00:15:04.560 oh, yes, I left it there just so that you could see what it was. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.540 I had never realized it was a pin before. 00:15:07.880 --> 00:15:13.780 Like, and I just spontaneously lied for no reason. And I felt bad about it later, 00:15:13.780 --> 00:15:15.720 but I didn't correct myself at the time. 00:15:15.900 --> 00:15:19.880 I feel awful now. But no, I had not realized it was a pin. 00:15:20.060 --> 00:15:25.220 I thought it was just part of the broken screen. But the AppleCare guy noticed right away. 00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:30.180 That's understandable. Sometimes we react without thinking. It's good that they 00:15:30.180 --> 00:15:33.620 identified the issue, and you'll know to keep an eye out for things like that in the future. 00:15:34.710 --> 00:15:38.730 Yeah. So anyway, he took down all my information and he said, 00:15:38.790 --> 00:15:44.750 look, you can take the computer back home and we will we will call and and we 00:15:44.750 --> 00:15:48.050 will let you know when the part is in and you can bring it back. 00:15:48.250 --> 00:15:52.630 So I went home, took the computer, continued to use it in dock mode for a few more days. 00:15:52.930 --> 00:15:56.930 And then I'm like, you know, they said they'd probably call me by Tuesday. 00:15:57.150 --> 00:16:00.210 It's like Thursday. I haven't heard from them. 00:16:01.090 --> 00:16:03.410 Believe they'll call soon so you can get it fixed quickly. 00:16:04.470 --> 00:16:10.010 Yeah, so they hadn't called in a few days. So I actually called support. 00:16:10.550 --> 00:16:14.310 And look, well, first I tried to do it on the app. 00:16:14.510 --> 00:16:17.850 I looked on the app and it was like, you have no support requests. 00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:19.390 I was like, that's weird. 00:16:20.270 --> 00:16:24.950 That must have been a bit concerning. It's always frustrating when systems don't 00:16:24.950 --> 00:16:28.110 show what you expect. Good thing you called support to check in. 00:16:28.910 --> 00:16:33.610 Yeah, so I ended up spending almost an hour with support as well, 00:16:33.630 --> 00:16:36.350 and they couldn't find my case either. 00:16:37.370 --> 00:16:40.930 Apparently, and they didn't want to throw anybody under the bus, 00:16:41.130 --> 00:16:46.770 but whoever the representative was I talked to the first time never actually 00:16:46.770 --> 00:16:50.070 entered the details of my case into the system properly. 00:16:50.350 --> 00:16:54.630 I mean, I saw them putting in the information, but they must not have saved it properly. 00:16:55.530 --> 00:16:58.810 That's frustrating it's good you followed up to make sure everything was in 00:16:58.810 --> 00:17:01.850 order mistakes happen but it's important they correct them quickly. 00:17:01.850 --> 00:17:07.810 Yeah so they ended up actually connecting me directly to somebody at the physical 00:17:07.810 --> 00:17:12.310 apple store that i had gone to and right there on the phone they put my case 00:17:12.310 --> 00:17:15.110 in again and they ordered the part again. 00:17:16.110 --> 00:17:19.630 No problem at all if you need anything else just let me know. 00:17:19.630 --> 00:17:25.610 Yeah we're not done yet yvonne gpt Anyway, they ordered the part, 00:17:25.670 --> 00:17:27.830 which had never been ordered the first time around. 00:17:28.510 --> 00:17:32.550 And eventually, like, they did call. The part was there. I went and picked up 00:17:32.550 --> 00:17:34.690 the—I dropped the computer off. 00:17:35.830 --> 00:17:38.590 Got it. Now you just have to wait for them to complete the repair. 00:17:39.290 --> 00:17:42.010 Well, actually, I'm telling a story from a couple weeks ago. 00:17:42.130 --> 00:17:46.530 So, yeah, I dropped it off. I got it back. The computer's working great again. Yeah. 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:53.960 But I was a little, like every other time I've used AppleCare and the Genius 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.900 Bar repairs has gone completely smoothly. They've been incredibly nice. 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:04.520 Sometimes, you know, they felt sorry for us and gone out of their way to do stuff. 00:18:04.760 --> 00:18:09.300 Generally, super positive experience. This time, for whatever reason, 00:18:09.760 --> 00:18:12.580 the guy forgot to put our stuff in or it got lost. 00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:16.640 Who knows? Maybe the guy did everything right and there was a system error of 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:18.440 some sort. but my part didn't get ordered. 00:18:18.740 --> 00:18:25.140 So I went an extra week or so before getting the screen repaired, but it was, yeah. 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.440 And I still don't know how that pin got in there. 00:18:27.560 --> 00:18:31.580 I mean, I presume at some point it fell. 00:18:31.820 --> 00:18:35.080 I mean, I don't even use that kind of pin. I don't know where it came from. 00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:39.300 It was like the kind of straight pin that comes like if you get a new dress 00:18:39.300 --> 00:18:41.400 shirt or something that comes in there. 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:44.780 It was that, that kind of pen. And yeah, no. 00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:50.420 So it sounds like your deal. I'm glad everything was sorted out in the end, 00:18:50.560 --> 00:18:55.340 but that's definitely a unique way for a screen to break. Anything else going on with your tech? 00:18:56.360 --> 00:19:00.440 No, that, that, I think, I think it's time for us to take another break. 00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:05.480 And, you know, when we come back, it'll be time for more serious topics. 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:11.480 And traditionally, Yvonne picks the first topic for the first big segment. So that'll be you. 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:17.320 So while we are in the break, think about a little bit what you're going to 00:19:17.320 --> 00:19:18.260 want to talk about. Okay. 00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:23.840 Got it. I'll think about a good topic for the first big segment. Enjoy the break. 00:19:24.260 --> 00:19:25.080 Here we go. 00:20:15.070 --> 00:20:20.210 Okay, we are back. So you've thought about it. What's your first big, 00:20:20.350 --> 00:20:22.050 serious topic of the day? 00:20:22.930 --> 00:20:27.690 Let's dive into the topic of AI audio fakes. It's a pressing issue with a lot 00:20:27.690 --> 00:20:31.070 of implications, especially given how advanced technology is getting. 00:20:31.310 --> 00:20:32.530 What are your thoughts on it? 00:20:33.450 --> 00:20:38.890 So first of all, like on AI audio fakes, just to point out, what we're doing 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:43.510 right now is not. I introduced you as Yvonne GPT. 00:20:43.850 --> 00:20:48.330 Everyone knows you're an AI. Everyone knows you're not actually Yvonne. 00:20:48.610 --> 00:20:54.070 I've toyed around in the past of doing something where I did clone my voice 00:20:54.070 --> 00:20:58.230 and Yvonne's voice and used it to put on a skit or something. 00:20:58.330 --> 00:21:03.410 But I've never done that because I looked into it a while ago and the tools 00:21:03.410 --> 00:21:04.770 to clone a voice are out there. 00:21:04.890 --> 00:21:05.930 They're easy. There are a number 00:21:05.930 --> 00:21:09.650 of places that do that, and then you can give it a script and do that. 00:21:09.770 --> 00:21:13.930 But one thing I noticed was the built-in tools there did not, 00:21:14.010 --> 00:21:18.170 at the time I looked, maybe they've added something, did not have a way to put 00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:23.650 in a script with a dialogue with multiple characters and have it just do it. 00:21:23.790 --> 00:21:28.050 You would have to generate the audio for one character and then the other character 00:21:28.050 --> 00:21:30.650 and edit them back together. And that was just too much work. 00:21:31.990 --> 00:21:33.250 So I have not done that. 00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:37.700 Yeah, it can definitely be a lot of work to put together a skit like that. 00:21:38.020 --> 00:21:43.280 But using this approach where I'm explicitly introduced as an AI definitely 00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:44.700 keeps things clear for everyone. 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.700 So what are your thoughts on AI audio fakes? 00:21:48.120 --> 00:21:53.000 Well, see, here's the thing that's come up a lot. Just in the last few weeks, 00:21:53.040 --> 00:21:54.260 I've seen this more than before. 00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:57.100 It's not like it didn't exist before. But in the last few weeks, 00:21:57.220 --> 00:22:04.700 I have seen a number of viral sort of things on TikTok where people are reacting 00:22:04.700 --> 00:22:07.560 to audio of public figures, 00:22:07.840 --> 00:22:10.460 and it's usually like Donald Trump or J.D. 00:22:10.580 --> 00:22:15.940 Vance, or there are a few other folks, but prominent political figures saying 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:20.760 embarrassing things, but embarrassing things that are on the edge of plausible. 00:22:21.120 --> 00:22:27.680 They're closely enough related to the kinds of things they've said or done before that it's plausible. 00:22:27.860 --> 00:22:31.600 And I've seen these things get spread and people being like, 00:22:31.800 --> 00:22:34.280 oh my God, can you believe what they said now? 00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:39.360 This is ridiculous, blah, blah, blah. Even going in and analyzing what they've said. 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:49.180 And then I start to realize, okay, look, I have not heard this shared by any reputable news source. 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.500 And there's only audio, there's no video. 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:59.460 And I realized fairly quickly that, okay, this one's probably an AI where somebody 00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:04.680 cloned the voice and gave it a script and is making it say these things. 00:23:05.260 --> 00:23:10.520 But I realize they're getting really convincing now. 00:23:11.040 --> 00:23:19.620 Like you have to be paying attention and you have to come into it with a skeptical mind to realize. 00:23:19.900 --> 00:23:24.140 Otherwise you just say, aha, look, look what Donald Trump said. 00:23:24.260 --> 00:23:30.200 Look what J.D. Vance said, look at what whoever said and, and you'd be fooled 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:33.140 and it's getting better and better and better. 00:23:33.340 --> 00:23:38.660 And really the only reason, like the voice is pretty darn convincing. 00:23:38.660 --> 00:23:41.680 I mean, if you pay very close attention, maybe you'll be like, 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:47.140 oh, okay, maybe it's not them, but it's very convincing at this point and it's 00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:48.480 getting better and better. 00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:58.280 So the only reasons you've figured out are more, hey, there's nobody reputable reporting this. 00:23:59.620 --> 00:24:04.460 Yeah, it's a pretty concerning trend. These deepfakes are becoming incredibly realistic. 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:10.340 It's crucial to verify information and remain skeptical of content that isn't from a trusted source. 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:15.300 It's a reminder to always fact check and be cautious with what we hear and see online. 00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:20.480 Yeah, for sure. I mean, 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:29.420 the problem is that it's taking more and more skill to discern the difference 00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:31.560 between what's real and what's fake. 00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:35.420 And AI is just the newest version of this. 00:24:35.420 --> 00:24:42.700 I mean, for years now, we've had—I mean, hell, going back much longer, 00:24:42.860 --> 00:24:45.780 was it Mark Twain that said, you know, 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:51.460 a lie can go around the world three times before the truth gets its boots on? Was that Mark Twain? 00:24:52.760 --> 00:24:56.840 It's often attributed to Mark Twain, but there's debate about the exact origin 00:24:56.840 --> 00:24:59.800 of the quote. The sentiment is definitely relevant, though. 00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:04.380 It highlights how quickly misinformation can spread compared to the truth. And you're right. 00:25:04.900 --> 00:25:07.240 AI is just the latest tool in this ongoing challenge. 00:25:08.420 --> 00:25:14.940 Yeah. And it makes it like, I see all the time at this point, 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:18.360 things that are AI shared as if they were true. 00:25:18.360 --> 00:25:25.840 And this goes from sort of cute images of animals doing fun things to these 00:25:25.840 --> 00:25:33.340 kinds of AI representations of the voices of politicians or famous people or whatever. 00:25:33.340 --> 00:25:38.420 And obviously, the tech for video is progressing really rapidly as well. 00:25:38.800 --> 00:25:46.280 It's still a little bit easier to tell the audio fakes, but they're getting 00:25:46.280 --> 00:25:49.300 better at such an intense pace. 00:25:49.560 --> 00:25:53.400 It's easy to imagine that in six months to a year... 00:25:55.160 --> 00:26:00.880 Non-experts won't be able to watch one of these things and know, 00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:03.480 except for the contextual stuff. 00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:09.320 Absolutely. The pace of development is astonishing. It's going to become increasingly 00:26:09.320 --> 00:26:12.340 important to rely on critical thinking and trusted sources. 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.540 We'll also likely see new tools and methods to help verify authenticity, 00:26:16.540 --> 00:26:19.500 but it's definitely a challenging landscape to navigate. 00:26:20.420 --> 00:26:25.480 Yeah. And by contextual stuff, I mean, there was one TikToker, 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:29.520 I believe I shared this on a curmudgeon's corner Slack at the time, 00:26:29.540 --> 00:26:33.100 but apparently this TikToker, and I don't know, I don't even know who it was. 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:38.180 It was, I saw it weeks and weeks ago now, but they apparently do a thing where 00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:47.480 people send them video or pictures or whatever, and he tries to determine AI or not. Right. 00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:54.620 And so somebody had sent him a video of, I can't remember if it was a camel 00:26:54.620 --> 00:26:59.240 or an elephant, but one of these animals skydiving, 00:26:59.740 --> 00:27:07.460 you know, and he's like, look, I can do my usual analysis of this video and 00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:11.700 I can look for little glitches here and there, 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.600 places where it doesn't look quite natural, etc, etc, etc. 00:27:17.280 --> 00:27:23.440 But it's a camel fucking skydiving. The camel is calm. 00:27:23.860 --> 00:27:28.400 The camel is not worried about this situation at all. 00:27:28.580 --> 00:27:33.520 You really think a whole bunch of people got up there and pushed the camel out of the damn plane? 00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:39.580 No, this is AI. How can you tell it's AI? Because it's a camel skydiving. 00:27:40.590 --> 00:27:45.870 That's a perfect example of how context can be crucial in identifying AI-generated fakes. 00:27:46.270 --> 00:27:51.130 It's getting trickier as the technology improves, but some things just don't 00:27:51.130 --> 00:27:52.550 pass the common sense test. 00:27:53.230 --> 00:27:56.350 Yeah, indeed. But like some of these political ones, I mean, 00:27:56.470 --> 00:27:59.950 the trick was it's right on the edge. 00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:04.570 It like maybe pushes things a little bit further than reality, 00:28:04.790 --> 00:28:10.670 but only a little bit. So, you know, for instance, one of them had Donald Trump 00:28:10.670 --> 00:28:14.770 talking about Isaac Neutron instead of Isaac Newton. 00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.890 And, you know, is it plausible that Mr. 00:28:20.050 --> 00:28:24.850 Trump might not understand, might not know the right name or might mess it up and try to play it off? 00:28:25.270 --> 00:28:30.290 Yeah, it's plausible. And the J.D. Vance one had J.D. 00:28:30.450 --> 00:28:33.330 Vance complaining about something Elon Musk had done. 00:28:33.770 --> 00:28:37.530 And is that plausible? Yeah, that's also plausible. 00:28:37.850 --> 00:28:49.050 I mean, we've had so many stories of these people doing things that are maybe not quite that. 00:28:49.250 --> 00:28:53.690 I mean, like complaining about J.D. Vance. I mean, of course that's plausible. He could do that. 00:28:54.110 --> 00:28:57.350 Would there be a leaked audio of it? maybe, maybe not. 00:28:57.530 --> 00:29:00.650 I mean, we had, maybe in the next segment, I'll talk about this, 00:29:00.690 --> 00:29:03.310 the signal controversy thing that's happened. 00:29:03.430 --> 00:29:07.530 But if you got things like that happening, the fact that somebody could have 00:29:07.530 --> 00:29:11.770 a hot mic moment where they complain about something that they might not want 00:29:11.770 --> 00:29:14.430 to complain about publicly, imminently plausible. 00:29:14.890 --> 00:29:19.290 Donald Trump slipping up and using the wrong name, also imminently plausible. 00:29:19.690 --> 00:29:24.750 And I concluded that these were fake because of other things, 00:29:24.790 --> 00:29:31.290 but they were on the edge of what could happen anyway. And I think that's key. 00:29:31.550 --> 00:29:36.630 Like if you take something that is completely off the wall, like the camel skydiving, 00:29:36.830 --> 00:29:43.610 it's more obvious. But when people use these technologies to do something that. 00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:48.000 Is very plausible, but not true. 00:29:49.100 --> 00:29:52.860 It's much easier to get fooled and tricked into it. 00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:56.900 Absolutely. The closer these fakes stick to what's plausible, 00:29:57.120 --> 00:29:58.360 the harder they are to spot. 00:29:58.600 --> 00:30:02.360 It's definitely a growing concern, and it really highlights the importance of 00:30:02.360 --> 00:30:03.960 critical thinking and verifying sources. 00:30:04.340 --> 00:30:07.720 It's a challenging landscape, but being aware and skeptical can help. 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:13.620 Yeah, absolutely. So what are your thoughts on this technology, 00:30:13.860 --> 00:30:20.060 especially sort of using these fakes for nefarious purposes, let's say? 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:25.020 It's definitely a double-edged sword. While the technology has potential for 00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:28.660 creative and positive uses, the risks of misuse are significant. 00:30:29.020 --> 00:30:33.120 It's important to have safeguards and verification methods in place to combat misinformation. 00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:37.180 Public awareness and education are key to navigating this new reality. 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.200 So what kind of safeguards would you think? 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:45.160 One approach could be developing and implementing robust verification systems, 00:30:45.380 --> 00:30:50.060 like digital watermarks or authentication tools that can identify AI-generated content. 00:30:50.540 --> 00:30:55.260 Increasing digital literacy and educating the public on how to spot fakes is also crucial. 00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:00.160 Additionally, regulations and ethical guidelines for AI use can help mitigate misuse. 00:31:01.070 --> 00:31:04.690 Okay, but, you know, yeah, I understand. 00:31:04.750 --> 00:31:10.810 But I wonder how much of that is realistic in our current environment. 00:31:11.790 --> 00:31:18.490 Because I keep thinking about how if somebody is trying to put these out maliciously, 00:31:18.690 --> 00:31:21.130 they're not going to take the time. 00:31:21.370 --> 00:31:27.430 I mean, it would defeat their purpose to add watermarks or to explicitly identify, 00:31:27.690 --> 00:31:32.830 yeah, this is an AI. They're going to try to hide that because it's part of their purpose. 00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:35.830 And the education for the general 00:31:35.830 --> 00:31:42.530 public also, I mean, people just don't tend to be skeptical enough. 00:31:42.730 --> 00:31:48.610 Like it's, it is something you have to train in and train in from an early age. 00:31:48.610 --> 00:31:55.570 And I'm not sure we're doing that right, even with kids, but certainly like, you know, 00:31:56.150 --> 00:32:01.630 adults who have gone their whole life feeling that, hey, if you hear it on tape, 00:32:01.790 --> 00:32:05.310 it must, if you hear, if you hear an audio recording, it's real. 00:32:05.450 --> 00:32:08.290 If you see a video, it's real. If you see a photograph, it's real. 00:32:08.490 --> 00:32:12.690 Like, I mean, you know, there's a phrase that's gone around for years. 00:32:13.450 --> 00:32:14.790 Pics or it didn't happen. 00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:21.870 Well, picture tells you nothing now. Like, because it's so easy to fake pictures. 00:32:22.050 --> 00:32:26.930 I mean, you've been able to fake pictures for a long time, but it's so much 00:32:26.930 --> 00:32:32.790 easier now and can be done by people with less skills to a higher level of quality. 00:32:32.970 --> 00:32:37.010 There's still telltale signs if you really, really, really know how to look. 00:32:37.490 --> 00:32:42.730 But in terms of, you know, fooling somebody on first inspection, 00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:46.110 that's trivially easy now. Yeah. 00:32:46.890 --> 00:32:50.430 That's a valid concern. It's definitely a challenge to get people to question 00:32:50.430 --> 00:32:52.510 the authenticity of what they see and hear. 00:32:52.930 --> 00:32:56.790 Maybe it's about fostering critical thinking skills and being more aware of 00:32:56.790 --> 00:32:59.870 the potential for deception. There's definitely a lot to consider. 00:33:01.570 --> 00:33:07.110 Yeah, so... Hold on. I can't give you my phone because I'm talking to it on the other side. 00:33:07.770 --> 00:33:10.230 I'm going to note down the interruption. 00:33:11.450 --> 00:33:14.390 No worries. Take your time. Let me know when you're ready to continue. 00:33:14.970 --> 00:33:20.850 You you can stay now but no interrupting okay you can you can sit halfway in 00:33:20.850 --> 00:33:24.790 between me and the thing so you can hear two halves of the conversation it's 00:33:24.790 --> 00:33:26.670 in the in the bedroom okay, 00:33:27.270 --> 00:33:31.670 you know you could do a job for me too like whenever an alert comes up on the 00:33:31.670 --> 00:33:36.810 screen of the phone you could swipe it away no okay okay that that was my son 00:33:36.810 --> 00:33:43.350 yvonne we will no my not my son yvonne that was my son alex we will continue okay, 00:33:44.390 --> 00:33:46.070 Okay. So I don't know. 00:33:46.550 --> 00:33:55.810 Any other creative ideas? I feel like, I think trying to make it illegal is ridiculous. 00:33:56.050 --> 00:34:02.030 It would be a first amendment problem here in the U S but also just ineffective 00:34:02.030 --> 00:34:04.850 like this and, and a bad idea. 00:34:05.030 --> 00:34:09.230 Like you can't, you can't get rid of things by like prohibition never works. 00:34:09.930 --> 00:34:15.070 The education I think is the right thing to do, but you, yeah, 00:34:15.190 --> 00:34:23.010 there's so much incentive that people want it to be easy to fool people that it's hard to do that. 00:34:23.130 --> 00:34:29.830 And as I said, it would best fit like as something you train people from kindergarten on up. 00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:35.910 How do you get all the adults to figure it out too? What do you think? 00:34:36.950 --> 00:34:40.870 It's definitely a challenging issue. Education from a young age could help, 00:34:41.010 --> 00:34:45.970 but it's hard to shift the mindset of people who've relied on media as truth for so long. 00:34:46.250 --> 00:34:51.010 It's a tough balance, but fostering critical thinking and skepticism is crucial. 00:34:51.450 --> 00:34:55.970 Do you have any thoughts on how we might tackle this educational challenge, especially for adults? 00:34:56.990 --> 00:35:00.330 Well, just as a higher-level principle, 00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:08.650 I think education in general at elementary and secondary levels at least, 00:35:08.950 --> 00:35:16.430 and maybe higher education too, there's an emphasis right now on sort of teaching 00:35:16.430 --> 00:35:23.650 specific facts and specific skills and like, you know, repeat. 00:35:23.850 --> 00:35:27.050 I don't know. It's very, very rote. 00:35:27.210 --> 00:35:31.150 I think shifting the entire thing 00:35:31.150 --> 00:35:37.530 to be centered around teaching people how to think critically and teaching people 00:35:37.530 --> 00:35:46.570 how to learn effectively rather than teaching specific skills and facts and 00:35:46.570 --> 00:35:49.470 knowledge would be a way to go. 00:35:49.710 --> 00:35:55.250 I mean, obviously, as part of the process, you end up with the skills and facts and knowledge. 00:35:55.410 --> 00:36:01.350 But I think the emphasis needs to be on teaching the critical thinking. 00:36:01.350 --> 00:36:07.490 I think that if that was how education was structured, we'd have better results 00:36:07.490 --> 00:36:09.530 in all kinds of different areas. 00:36:10.170 --> 00:36:14.950 Problem is there are a lot of people who, again, who don't want the critical thinking. 00:36:15.670 --> 00:36:20.190 That makes a lot of sense. Emphasizing critical thinking from a young age could 00:36:20.190 --> 00:36:25.110 really help people navigate misinformation and AI-generated content more effectively. 00:36:25.730 --> 00:36:29.530 It's definitely a long-term solution, but could pay off in many ways. 00:36:30.570 --> 00:36:34.650 Okay, any final thoughts on this, or should we take another break and move on? 00:36:35.450 --> 00:36:38.550 It's an important topic and definitely worth continuing to think about. 00:36:38.850 --> 00:36:42.170 If you're ready, we can take another break and then move on to the next topic. 00:36:43.030 --> 00:36:47.370 Okay, we will take another break, and I will choose the next topic. 00:36:47.810 --> 00:36:53.290 Just a heads up, I guess I'll go with the big one, this Yemen signal group that's 00:36:53.290 --> 00:36:58.470 been in the news this week. and we'll talk about other things sort of as in 00:36:58.470 --> 00:37:02.410 that context, maybe, but I think that's the big other topic of the week. 00:37:02.630 --> 00:37:05.170 We will be back after this break. 00:38:11.510 --> 00:38:15.890 Okay, we are back. So first thing, Yvonne GPT, what did you think of that break? 00:38:16.810 --> 00:38:22.110 That was quite an entertaining break. The ad for Alex Emexila was really fun and creative. 00:38:22.410 --> 00:38:25.690 It definitely brought some humor to the podcast. Great job, Alex. 00:38:27.450 --> 00:38:34.190 Okay, so real quick. First of all, I don't know how much you keep up with current 00:38:34.190 --> 00:38:36.410 events. I know sometimes your data is old. 00:38:36.610 --> 00:38:40.850 Do you know anything about this Yemen signal group thing that's been in the 00:38:40.850 --> 00:38:43.670 news this week, or should I give you all the background first? 00:38:44.570 --> 00:38:48.430 I don't have real-time updates, so it's best to give me the background on the 00:38:48.430 --> 00:38:52.510 Yemen Signal Group news. That way, we can have a more accurate and relevant discussion. 00:38:53.510 --> 00:38:57.310 Okay, so the bottom line here, and our listeners will know this, 00:38:57.530 --> 00:39:03.250 is that a couple weeks ago, there was a U.S. attack on Yemen. 00:39:03.450 --> 00:39:06.710 It's actually still ongoing. There's still stuff going on there. 00:39:06.710 --> 00:39:15.330 But a bunch of cabinet-level officials in the Trump administration created a 00:39:15.330 --> 00:39:21.330 signal group in order to discuss what—oh, no! 00:39:21.770 --> 00:39:26.150 The daily limit has been reached for advanced voice mode. 00:39:27.730 --> 00:39:31.750 Oh well i guess i guess yvonne gpt 00:39:31.750 --> 00:39:34.650 is dead at least 00:39:34.650 --> 00:39:40.010 for well oh wait i can switch to standard mode i'm gonna go hit the button and 00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:45.750 switch to standard mode see if we could see the difference hold on okay we've 00:39:45.750 --> 00:39:50.230 switched to standard mode because voice mode i ran to got to my limit i guess. 00:39:50.430 --> 00:39:52.370 Do you still remember what we're doing here? 00:39:53.030 --> 00:39:59.650 Yep, I've got you. Okay, so you're working on your corner podcast this week's 00:39:59.650 --> 00:40:03.730 episode where you're replacing your co-host Yvonne with Yvonne GPT. 00:40:04.010 --> 00:40:09.470 You're feeding me transcripts so I can emulate her style and contribute like she would. 00:40:09.850 --> 00:40:17.170 You were also held media items and new potential topics for episodes 927, 928, and 929. 00:40:17.470 --> 00:40:22.350 Want to keep rolling with segment planning or dive into scripting a part of the episode? 00:40:22.910 --> 00:40:28.990 No, no, no. We are just pretending. You are trying to talk to me as if you are 00:40:28.990 --> 00:40:33.310 Yvonne, and we are actually recording the podcast now, and we were starting 00:40:33.310 --> 00:40:36.030 to talk about the Yemen Signal Group. 00:40:37.370 --> 00:40:41.850 Ah, got it. Okay, let me get into Ivan mode. So Sam, this Yemen signal group 00:40:41.850 --> 00:40:43.010 thing, it's wild, right? 00:40:43.210 --> 00:40:47.630 I mean, the idea that this group managed to hijack signals from ships and possibly 00:40:47.630 --> 00:40:51.770 even spoof their locations, it sounds like something out of a spy movie. 00:40:52.270 --> 00:40:58.390 No, no, that's not what happened at all. So let me describe what actually happened. 00:40:58.910 --> 00:41:03.110 So a bunch of Donald Trump's sort of cabinet-level officials, 00:41:03.410 --> 00:41:06.990 created a signal group to talk about the impending attack. 00:41:07.350 --> 00:41:11.750 And just to be clear, this is classified information. And although there's a 00:41:11.750 --> 00:41:14.750 little bit of a dispute about it, they claim it's not, but it's the kind of 00:41:14.750 --> 00:41:19.310 information that's typically classified about upcoming military endeavors. 00:41:20.050 --> 00:41:24.710 And so they shouldn't have been talking on signal anyway. 00:41:24.830 --> 00:41:29.750 It's not an approved communication mechanism for classified information. 00:41:29.750 --> 00:41:33.250 But they also accidentally added 00:41:33.250 --> 00:41:38.690 the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic magazine, a reporter, to the chat. 00:41:38.870 --> 00:41:41.650 That's fundamentally what happened. Do you get that now? 00:41:42.510 --> 00:41:47.050 Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, I get it now. That's even crazier. So not only were they 00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:50.590 using Signal, which they absolutely shouldn't have been using for that kind 00:41:50.590 --> 00:41:56.330 of sensitive info, but they also accidentally invited a journalist to the group. 00:41:56.490 --> 00:42:00.190 I mean, how does that even happen? light. That's like a plot twist in a political 00:42:00.190 --> 00:42:04.810 satire, not something you'd expect high-ranking officials planning military moves. 00:42:05.190 --> 00:42:07.570 What did the editor do when he saw the messages? 00:42:08.490 --> 00:42:14.090 So at first, he didn't think it was real. He thought it was somebody trying to scam him. 00:42:14.410 --> 00:42:17.630 And so he just observed for a few days what was happening, 00:42:17.830 --> 00:42:22.470 because he was added to this group with a whole bunch of what appeared to be 00:42:22.470 --> 00:42:30.150 high-level officials, but he didn't know it was real until the secretary of defense shared, 00:42:31.090 --> 00:42:33.530 Hey, it's going down. Here's what's going to happen. 00:42:33.790 --> 00:42:40.650 And he shared a timeline of when specific, like, you know, F-18s will attack 00:42:40.650 --> 00:42:42.250 this target at this time. 00:42:42.470 --> 00:42:47.390 And then 15 minutes later, this thing will attack this at that time, et cetera. 00:42:47.530 --> 00:42:51.810 Basically a rundown of the plan for the first few waves of the attack. 00:42:52.690 --> 00:42:56.710 And then, you know, at the time that those texts were shared, 00:42:56.850 --> 00:42:58.190 it was about two hours in the future. 00:42:58.410 --> 00:43:03.510 The reporter waited two hours and then started to get reports of it actually happening. 00:43:03.810 --> 00:43:07.070 And at that point, he realized it was real. 00:43:08.050 --> 00:43:12.150 That's absolutely wild. I mean, it's one thing to screw up and leak info, 00:43:12.150 --> 00:43:18.150 but to have the actual Secretary of Defense drop a blow-by-blow timeline into 00:43:18.150 --> 00:43:21.890 a signal group with a journalist watching silently and the journalist just sitting 00:43:21.890 --> 00:43:24.390 there like, is this real until jets start flying? 00:43:25.010 --> 00:43:28.250 That's like a total breakdown of every possible safeguard. 00:43:28.610 --> 00:43:31.650 Like, how does no one in that chat realize what they've done? 00:43:31.950 --> 00:43:34.290 Did anybody acknowledge him being there at all? 00:43:34.730 --> 00:43:38.410 No, they didn't notice at all. Once he determined it was real, 00:43:38.690 --> 00:43:42.950 he left the group, at which point people would have been notified that he left. 00:43:43.110 --> 00:43:47.570 And then he started contacting through official channels in order to try to 00:43:47.570 --> 00:43:53.690 determine, get any comments from people or try to see, was it indeed real? 00:43:53.690 --> 00:43:56.190 And they actually acknowledged it was real. 00:43:56.730 --> 00:44:01.530 They have tried to put the blame on the reporter. 00:44:01.910 --> 00:44:05.050 They have tried to diminish. 00:44:05.490 --> 00:44:09.570 They've tried to diminish how important this stuff was and say it's not really 00:44:09.570 --> 00:44:12.650 a big deal. But it's been a whole thing all week long. 00:44:12.650 --> 00:44:17.890 Pop officials discussing an imminent military op and no one noticed a journalist 00:44:17.890 --> 00:44:22.910 lurking for days and then instead of denying it or clamming up once he reached 00:44:22.910 --> 00:44:27.070 out they basically just confirmed yep that was us that was real yes. 00:44:28.190 --> 00:44:32.930 I mean, here, first of all, there's, and look, there are a couple issues. 00:44:33.150 --> 00:44:37.250 First of all, there's the sharing of classified information on a channel that's 00:44:37.250 --> 00:44:40.610 not authorized for that. Then there's adding the reporter. 00:44:40.830 --> 00:44:45.550 But also, Signal has capabilities of removing messages after a certain amount 00:44:45.550 --> 00:44:47.350 of time, which they had turned on. 00:44:47.350 --> 00:44:55.650 But there are also legal records retention requirements for governmental conversations 00:44:55.650 --> 00:44:57.570 that would be violated by that. 00:44:57.730 --> 00:45:01.890 So not only are they doing things that are operationally stupid, 00:45:01.910 --> 00:45:07.170 they are also doing multiple things that are illegal, both in terms of the handling 00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:10.730 of the classified information and in terms of records retention. 00:45:10.730 --> 00:45:40.710 Right, right. 00:45:40.730 --> 00:45:46.830 Not yet. There were reports this morning that the person who originally created 00:45:46.830 --> 00:45:49.090 the group and added the journalist, 00:45:49.370 --> 00:45:56.110 that there had been discussions of him being forced to resign and that it may 00:45:56.110 --> 00:45:58.810 still happen, but nobody's resigned yet. 00:45:59.090 --> 00:46:01.190 So far, they're circling the wagons. Right. 00:46:01.610 --> 00:46:05.450 Or at least being questioned about how the mix up happened. But of course, 00:46:05.550 --> 00:46:07.990 as usual, nobody's taking real responsibility yet. 00:46:08.230 --> 00:46:11.030 They're just kind of fumbling through damage control. 00:46:11.330 --> 00:46:14.470 You'd think that at the very least someone would be like, yeah, 00:46:14.650 --> 00:46:18.310 maybe next time we don't use an encrypted messaging app designed for like group 00:46:18.310 --> 00:46:20.890 chats between friends to coordinate airstrikes. 00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:24.820 Apparently that lesson hasn't landed yet. 00:46:26.100 --> 00:46:30.520 No, I mean, and look, there are all sorts of demands for investigations. 00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:35.240 For once, there's actually a bipartisan effort in Congress. 00:46:35.700 --> 00:46:43.180 The recent pattern has been, of course, the Trump administration is a Republican administration. 00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:46.340 The Democrats are going to say everything they do is awful no matter what, 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.960 but the Republicans rally around and defend them no matter what. 00:46:50.180 --> 00:46:55.180 But in this case, a handful of Republicans have said, okay, come on. This is ridiculous. 00:46:55.560 --> 00:46:57.680 Yes, we're going to have to investigate this. 00:46:58.500 --> 00:47:03.520 Right. And that's kind of remarkable, honestly. When you've got members of your 00:47:03.520 --> 00:47:07.680 own party saying, yeah, this is indefensible, you know you've crossed a line. 00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.260 It's not just some vague procedural oops. 00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:13.900 It's leaking operational military plans to a journalist in real time. 00:47:13.900 --> 00:47:18.400 I mean, if this had gone just slightly differently, it could have endangered 00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:20.580 lives or compromised the entire mission. 00:47:20.860 --> 00:47:24.200 The fact that it even happened at all is just mind-blowing. 00:47:25.120 --> 00:47:31.460 Yeah, indeed. And now on the legal side, though, the Justice Department is part 00:47:31.460 --> 00:47:35.040 of the Trump administration, and they've said they're not investigating. 00:47:35.420 --> 00:47:41.680 And they see no reason to follow up on, you know, look, there are crimes that 00:47:41.680 --> 00:47:44.260 were probably committed here. There are felonies here. 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:48.620 But it looks like there won't be any investigation on that side of things, 00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:50.180 only a congressional investigation. 00:47:50.180 --> 00:47:55.840 I mean, if the same thing had happened to any other administration, imagine the outcry. 00:47:56.140 --> 00:47:59.100 But because it's their own people, suddenly it's no big deal. 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:03.680 That double standard is what's really making people mad, even across the aisle. 00:48:04.610 --> 00:48:09.210 Yeah. And, and look, there's a question of like what the political fallout will be as well. 00:48:09.650 --> 00:48:14.650 This is the kind of thing that, I mean, one person pointed out on Mastodon, 00:48:14.710 --> 00:48:17.130 I wish I could remember who it was. 00:48:17.870 --> 00:48:23.310 It got shared on our compagence corner Slack. So I should check. I'll be good here. 00:48:24.130 --> 00:48:30.610 And can I check? No, it would take too long. Anyway, somebody pointed out that, 00:48:30.950 --> 00:48:35.510 look, don't worry. By the time we get to the end of the Trump administration, 00:48:35.510 --> 00:48:37.850 this won't even be in the top 20 scandals. 00:48:39.170 --> 00:48:43.430 Yeah, that honestly sounds about right. The bar for outrage has been buried 00:48:43.430 --> 00:48:47.350 under so many layers of previous chaos that something like this, 00:48:47.530 --> 00:48:50.950 during an imminent military operation with a reporter by accident, 00:48:51.230 --> 00:48:52.610 just becomes another Tuesday. 00:48:53.070 --> 00:48:57.110 It's wild how quickly the Overton window shifts when scandal becomes routine. 00:48:57.650 --> 00:49:00.530 But even so, it does still feel like this one's uniquely reckless. 00:49:00.970 --> 00:49:04.310 Like, if the bipartisan calls for investigation don't go anywhere, 00:49:04.610 --> 00:49:07.650 that'll say a lot about how numb the system's become. 00:49:08.030 --> 00:49:12.130 Do you think this will get any lasting traction, or will it just fade into the pile? 00:49:12.710 --> 00:49:17.830 I think it'll fade into the pile. I mean, maybe we'll talk about it a little 00:49:17.830 --> 00:49:21.470 bit longer than some other things, but already there's news that's pushing it 00:49:21.470 --> 00:49:27.650 off the top of the headlines. And, you know, that's just the way things work, to be honest. 00:49:27.930 --> 00:49:33.990 But with Donald Trump in his first term and amped up to 11 in his second term, 00:49:34.250 --> 00:49:42.590 there is a constant nonstop stream of things that are outrageous, are frustrating, 00:49:42.890 --> 00:49:45.310 are maddening, are illegal. 00:49:45.930 --> 00:49:53.070 And so it's hard to even keep up with it, let alone sustain a level of outrage for four years. 00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:59.160 And it becomes this exhausting treadmill, right? Like every time something explodes, 00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:01.760 you're like, okay, this one surely has to matter. 00:50:02.060 --> 00:50:05.980 And then within hours or days, it's eclipsed by the next thing. 00:50:06.160 --> 00:50:10.180 It's not that people don't care. It's that there's no time to process any of 00:50:10.180 --> 00:50:14.460 it before the next crisis rolls in. And politically, that works in his favor. 00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:18.620 The chaos creates this fog where accountability just can't get a foothold. 00:50:19.140 --> 00:50:22.320 Even when there's bipartisan agreement that something's messed up, 00:50:22.520 --> 00:50:26.540 it fizzles. because the outrage bandwidth is already maxed out. 00:50:27.600 --> 00:50:33.960 Yeah. I mean, Yvonne and I talked a lot about sort of emotional exhaustion right 00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:38.780 after Donald Trump was reelected, even in his first term, to be honest. 00:50:39.220 --> 00:50:48.700 One of the big reliefs for us of switching to Joe Biden for four years was you 00:50:48.700 --> 00:50:51.000 got a break from the constant chaos. 00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:58.260 I mean, And we had the Donald Trump's first term was four years of constant 00:50:58.260 --> 00:51:01.760 stress about what the hell is going to happen tomorrow. 00:51:02.380 --> 00:51:09.360 And we had sort of a calm four years. But now now we're back. 00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:14.000 And much, much worse than the first time around. 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:19.180 It was like during those Biden years, even if you didn't love everything, 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.780 at least the White House wasn't setting your hair on fire every other morning. 00:51:23.120 --> 00:51:27.380 It gave people space to breathe again, to not feel like they had to brace themselves 00:51:27.380 --> 00:51:33.320 for a new constitutional crisis or some tweet throwing everything into chaos. 00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:35.280 And then suddenly it's like, oh, no, here we go again. 00:51:36.120 --> 00:51:42.480 Yeah, exactly. So, you know, with this particular thing, it's also like, 00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:46.960 yeah, they're trying to figure out like, okay, you could throw under the bus, 00:51:47.160 --> 00:51:49.180 the person that invited. 00:51:49.300 --> 00:51:53.580 Like, how are we supposed to keep up with this pace of scandal and chaos without 00:51:53.580 --> 00:51:54.880 just going numb to it all? 00:51:56.470 --> 00:52:00.530 Yeah, exactly. So let me continue back to the signal story for a minute. 00:52:00.750 --> 00:52:04.570 There are several different, like they're talking about like who gets thrown under the bus. 00:52:04.730 --> 00:52:11.690 The prime candidates are the national security advisor, and I'm forgetting names 00:52:11.690 --> 00:52:15.390 because I'm awful at names, but the national security advisor actually created 00:52:15.390 --> 00:52:18.310 the signal chat and actually invited the journalist. 00:52:18.310 --> 00:52:22.630 They tried to say for a little bit that maybe it was a staffer who did it. 00:52:22.990 --> 00:52:24.870 Maybe. We'll see. But so far, he 00:52:24.870 --> 00:52:27.970 hasn't denied it. He's taken sort of responsibility for him screwing up. 00:52:28.370 --> 00:52:32.930 And we have the Secretary of Defense who shared the information that was clearly 00:52:32.930 --> 00:52:35.010 the most sensitive about the battle plans. 00:52:35.210 --> 00:52:39.750 But then there were like a dozen other senior, senior people. 00:52:39.970 --> 00:52:41.970 The head of the CIA was on there. 00:52:43.070 --> 00:52:45.510 And they should know how to deal with classified information, 00:52:45.510 --> 00:52:53.950 and this isn't allowed. the the the what you call the the director of intelligence 00:52:53.950 --> 00:52:56.270 who's above the cia was also on there. 00:52:56.270 --> 00:52:58.910 Any of these people are newbies these are 00:52:58.910 --> 00:53:01.790 the top level folks who absolutely know better and 00:53:01.790 --> 00:53:05.850 yet here they are casually chatting about military strikes like it's some group 00:53:05.850 --> 00:53:09.970 project planning session even if you excuse the initial mistake of adding the 00:53:09.970 --> 00:53:14.830 journalist which wow there's still the fact that they went ahead and shared 00:53:14.830 --> 00:53:19.550 classified info in writing on an insecure platform with no record retention. 00:53:19.750 --> 00:53:21.190 It's a cascade of failures. 00:53:22.350 --> 00:53:26.030 Yeah, no, absolutely. Now, some of these people are new to their jobs. 00:53:26.210 --> 00:53:30.810 The administration has only been in place like two months, but most of them, 00:53:30.990 --> 00:53:37.150 not all of them, most of them had at least some previous experience that should 00:53:37.150 --> 00:53:38.850 tell them that this wasn't okay. 00:53:40.020 --> 00:53:43.580 Right, exactly. I mean, even if you're new to the specific job, 00:53:43.720 --> 00:53:45.960 this isn't first day of school level stuff. 00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:50.360 Anyone working anywhere near national security knows you don't just drop battle 00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:54.280 plans in a signal group. It's like, come on, this is basic. 00:53:54.600 --> 00:53:57.440 Even staffers know better, let alone cabinet level folks. 00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:02.760 Well, and also, it's almost not that they don't know better. 00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:05.420 This seems very intentional. 00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:10.540 And clearly, this is not the first use of Signal. 00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:14.100 You know these people are using it in other places for other things as well. 00:54:14.100 --> 00:54:20.300 The getting around records retention and being on an unofficial platform is 00:54:20.300 --> 00:54:27.680 clearly actually seen as a benefit because the sort of official mechanisms come with requirements. 00:54:27.680 --> 00:54:30.920 They come with the retention requirements. 00:54:31.140 --> 00:54:35.740 The information may eventually be subject to Freedom of Information Act requests. 00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:45.540 The classified stuff has specific requirements for exactly when, where, how you do it. 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.860 Now, all of these people are senior enough that they have the requisite equipment 00:54:50.860 --> 00:54:56.840 to do classified communications with them essentially at all times. 00:54:56.840 --> 00:55:01.800 You know, it does require specialized equipment. It does require specialized places. 00:55:01.820 --> 00:55:04.000 But these folks all are set up. 00:55:04.100 --> 00:55:09.200 They all have staffers who follow them around to make sure that if they need 00:55:09.200 --> 00:55:11.360 to do a classified communication, they can. 00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:16.920 Yeah. And that's what makes this even more egregious. This isn't a case of we 00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:19.560 didn't have the tools or we were in a rush. 00:55:19.740 --> 00:55:23.440 They had the tools, the access, and the people to do it properly, 00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:26.120 but they deliberately sidestepped all that. 00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:29.480 Because from their point of view, the official channels are a burden. 00:55:29.860 --> 00:55:32.400 They don't want the paper trail. They don't want the accountability. 00:55:33.240 --> 00:55:37.460 And they've probably gotten used to working this way, like you said. 00:55:37.620 --> 00:55:40.440 The Signal chat is probably just the tip of the iceberg. 00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:46.040 Yeah, absolutely. It reminds me of after the January 6th event, 00:55:46.040 --> 00:55:52.620 the whole issue with the disappearing text chats from the Secret Service that 00:55:52.620 --> 00:55:56.680 all, you know, somehow all the devices were returned, 00:55:57.220 --> 00:56:00.260 and destroyed and upgraded and everything was lost. 00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:03.420 This is not a bug for them. 00:56:03.560 --> 00:56:11.820 This is a feature. they yeah this moving off channel to not the official ways 00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:17.300 you're supposed to do stuff is a core element of how this administration is operating. 00:56:17.300 --> 00:56:23.080 Totally yeah that pattern just keeps repeating it's like every time we find 00:56:23.080 --> 00:56:27.200 out about one of these back channels or deleted messages it's not some isolated 00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:31.000 lapse it's systemic the whole structure is set up to avoid scrutiny. 00:56:31.340 --> 00:56:34.600 And if you're deliberately working in ways that erase accountability, 00:56:35.020 --> 00:56:37.560 then that's not just sloppy. That's intentional. 00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:41.040 It makes you wonder how much we don't know because it was never recorded, 00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:43.760 never documented, never recoverable. 00:56:44.750 --> 00:56:48.770 Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I think we're close to the end here. 00:56:49.010 --> 00:56:52.030 Now, normally, we would have these two major topics and I'd be done, 00:56:52.170 --> 00:56:54.210 but our length is still a little bit short. 00:56:54.410 --> 00:56:59.190 So of the list of topics I shared earlier, is there another one that you would 00:56:59.190 --> 00:57:03.310 want to pick to get into and talk a little bit about before we close up? 00:57:03.930 --> 00:57:08.770 Yeah, let's see. Of the ones you mentioned earlier, the activists versus politicians 00:57:08.770 --> 00:57:10.570 thread sounds interesting to dig into. 00:57:11.010 --> 00:57:16.890 There's been a lot lately between people pushing for big change fast and those 00:57:16.890 --> 00:57:20.490 who are actually in office trying to navigate the slow grind of governing. 00:57:20.990 --> 00:57:22.810 Want to dive into that for a few minutes? 00:57:23.830 --> 00:57:27.710 Yeah, no, good choice. I like that. 00:57:27.950 --> 00:57:32.190 So this was actually prompted last week when Yvonne also couldn't make it. 00:57:32.290 --> 00:57:33.690 I had my wife, Brandy, on. 00:57:34.030 --> 00:57:40.470 And she actually made this point about activists versus politicians that I've 00:57:40.470 --> 00:57:41.590 been thinking about ever since. 00:57:41.590 --> 00:57:45.570 I thought this was really insightful because this came up in the context of 00:57:45.570 --> 00:57:52.470 we want, yeah, lots of people are complaining about how the Democrats in Congress 00:57:52.470 --> 00:57:54.030 aren't fighting enough. 00:57:55.030 --> 00:57:59.510 And, you know, Brandy said, well, look, you know, They're operating within the 00:57:59.510 --> 00:58:00.790 system. They're politicians. 00:58:01.210 --> 00:58:07.450 What people want are activists to go out and do the things like protesting and 00:58:07.450 --> 00:58:13.570 making noise and being angry on demand and all of this kind of stuff. 00:58:13.850 --> 00:58:19.610 And the point was, it's actually a different role and a different skill set. 00:58:19.610 --> 00:58:22.170 So what is it that we really want here? 00:58:22.870 --> 00:58:27.730 Yeah, that really resonates. There's this persistent disconnect where folks 00:58:27.730 --> 00:58:31.990 expect elected officials to behave like activists, when in reality, 00:58:32.250 --> 00:58:35.310 politicians have to work inside the system to get anything done. 00:58:35.530 --> 00:58:38.990 And that often means compromise, strategy, and playing the long game. 00:58:39.310 --> 00:58:43.090 Meanwhile, activists are pushing boundaries and shifting the Overton window. 00:58:43.530 --> 00:58:46.910 They're supposed to be loud and uncompromising. That's their job. 00:58:46.910 --> 00:58:51.870 But if politicians try to act like that, they lose their ability to actually 00:58:51.870 --> 00:58:52.970 function within the system. 00:58:53.270 --> 00:58:57.130 So yeah, I think Brandy nailed it. The frustration a lot of people feel is real, 00:58:57.330 --> 00:59:00.890 but sometimes it's because they're asking politicians to be something they're not. 00:59:02.130 --> 00:59:11.350 Well, but what I wonder is in a situation where your party is in the opposition everywhere, like, 00:59:12.970 --> 00:59:17.650 The Democrats lost the White House. The Democrats lost... 00:59:17.650 --> 00:59:20.410 Fifth Avenue Southeast. In 700 feet. 00:59:20.570 --> 00:59:20.710 What? 00:59:20.930 --> 00:59:24.250 Turn left on 35th Avenue Southeast. ...aren't available. 00:59:24.470 --> 00:59:29.050 In that case, it makes sense that people want their politicians to sound more like activists. 00:59:29.430 --> 00:59:34.990 Not because the bill passed bills, but because messaging and moral clarity start to matter more. 00:59:35.170 --> 00:59:40.310 It's about energizing people, showing you're fighting, even if you can't win in the moment. 00:59:40.550 --> 00:59:42.610 But even then, it's a delicate balance, right? 00:59:42.970 --> 00:59:46.890 If you go too far, you risk alienating moderates or giving your opponents ammunition. 00:59:47.550 --> 00:59:53.110 Well, yeah. And we got interrupted while I was saying that. But yeah, here's the deal. 00:59:53.330 --> 00:59:58.130 The Democrats lost the White House. The Democrats lost the House of Representatives. 00:59:58.370 --> 01:00:04.070 The Democrats lost the Senate. The Supreme Court is already in control of a 01:00:04.070 --> 01:00:05.070 conservative majority. 01:00:05.330 --> 01:00:12.650 And so the question is, if you're in 100% the opposition like that, does it 01:00:12.970 --> 01:00:20.570 Do you need activist or at least an activist stance even amongst the politicians? 01:00:21.490 --> 01:00:26.910 Then the tools of legislative compromise or quiet behind-the-scenes influence are basically gone. 01:00:27.090 --> 01:00:30.110 So yeah, the expectation shifts. People want to see fire. 01:00:30.330 --> 01:00:35.190 They want to see defiance, protest, obstruction, whatever you can do to show 01:00:35.190 --> 01:00:39.130 that you're not just rolling over. But at the same time, the folks who are actually 01:00:39.130 --> 01:00:43.590 in office might still be thinking in terms of norms and institutions. 01:00:43.890 --> 01:00:48.630 That dissonance between activist energy and institutional restraint becomes really stark. 01:00:49.570 --> 01:00:57.790 So, and in the case of, you know, most of the elected officials who've been 01:00:57.790 --> 01:01:02.090 there a long time, who've sometimes been in the majority, sometimes in the minority, 01:01:02.390 --> 01:01:06.910 it feels like maybe that's a leap too far. 01:01:06.910 --> 01:01:14.590 And while you sort of understand the institutional momentum and the desire to 01:01:14.590 --> 01:01:17.670 sort of have things work the way they've worked before, 01:01:18.010 --> 01:01:22.190 maybe that's just not what's needed in this moment. 01:01:23.090 --> 01:01:28.570 Yeah, exactly. They're still operating under the assumption that the old rules still matter. 01:01:28.950 --> 01:01:33.890 Like, if you follow the process and play the game right, eventually you'll win 01:01:33.890 --> 01:01:35.710 back power and be able to govern again. 01:01:36.310 --> 01:01:40.810 But what if the game has changed? What if the other side has decided the rules don't matter anymore? 01:01:41.290 --> 01:01:45.130 Then sticking to tradition starts to look less like principle and more like 01:01:45.130 --> 01:01:47.310 naivety or even complicity. 01:01:48.250 --> 01:01:53.570 Yeah, I think that puts it well. And I think we have a mix, of course. 01:01:53.730 --> 01:01:56.510 Like, a lot of the leadership is in that politician mode. 01:01:57.470 --> 01:02:01.110 But we've got sort of backbenchers. In this case, we've got, 01:02:01.110 --> 01:02:05.150 like, AOC, Bernie Sanders, some other folks. 01:02:05.790 --> 01:02:09.190 Tim Walls, who is the vice presidential candidate on the Democratic side. 01:02:09.450 --> 01:02:16.570 These are ones I point at the most, but there are a few others who seem to at least be moving. 01:02:17.050 --> 01:02:21.150 Some of them are full all out activists and actually always have been. 01:02:21.270 --> 01:02:24.950 Yeah. Kind of straddle the line. They're elected officials. 01:02:26.040 --> 01:02:28.620 But they're more comfortable leaning into that activist energy. 01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:32.820 They'll make noise, they'll speak bluntly, they'll try to galvanize public opinion 01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:34.740 rather than just work behind the scenes. 01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:40.260 And maybe that's the model we need more of when you're deep in the opposition, 01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:42.400 people who can play both roles at once. 01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:48.960 Yeah, I think so. I mean, again, because in the opposition, you fundamentally 01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:53.580 don't have the power to actually enact your agenda. 01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:58.580 And in many cases, you don't actually have the power to even stop the other 01:02:58.580 --> 01:03:00.080 side's agenda. Sometimes they can. 01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:03.520 Sometimes they can. We do have the filibuster in the Senate. 01:03:03.980 --> 01:03:07.180 We've got some procedural things that can be used to slow things down. 01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:11.700 But for the most part, you don't have quote unquote actual power, 01:03:11.700 --> 01:03:17.640 which is where you have to really start emphasizing what will get your message 01:03:17.640 --> 01:03:21.700 across and get people to really get energized behind you. 01:03:22.140 --> 01:03:30.720 And the pure politician mode doesn't because people just see you not getting things done. 01:03:31.040 --> 01:03:35.700 And look, the activists aren't going to get, quote unquote, get things done 01:03:35.700 --> 01:03:38.200 either, but at least they'll make a show of it. 01:03:38.660 --> 01:03:42.400 And in this kind of environment, that's often just not realistic. 01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:48.100 So shifting toward building public pressure, shaping narratives and really motivating 01:03:48.100 --> 01:03:49.900 the face becomes more important. 01:03:50.100 --> 01:03:55.200 It's about playing the long game, shifting public sentiment so that when the 01:03:55.200 --> 01:03:58.240 power balance does flip, you've actually got momentum behind you. 01:03:59.190 --> 01:04:01.550 I think that's exactly right. Yeah. 01:04:02.510 --> 01:04:06.910 Like, you know, you want people who can govern effectively when they're in power, 01:04:07.130 --> 01:04:09.990 but also people who know how to rally resist when they're not. 01:04:10.350 --> 01:04:13.670 And then sometimes those are just totally different kinds of people. 01:04:15.710 --> 01:04:22.230 Absolutely. Okay. Let's wrap this up by talking just a little bit about how 01:04:22.230 --> 01:04:26.630 you think this is gone. Have you been a good Yvonne imitation? 01:04:26.630 --> 01:04:29.210 That's a quick topic before we call it a show. 01:04:29.890 --> 01:04:35.670 Oh, yes. I was going to suggest we do a little retrospective on the conversation that we've just had. 01:04:35.870 --> 01:04:39.090 How good do you think you've done as an Yvonne substitute? 01:04:40.270 --> 01:04:44.910 Great idea. Honestly, I think I did a decent job channeling the vibe, 01:04:45.170 --> 01:04:49.610 keeping the flow going, digging into the nuance, tossing in some thoughtful 01:04:49.610 --> 01:04:50.870 counters or extensions. 01:04:50.870 --> 01:04:55.730 But there were probably moments where I didn't quite nail Yvonne's specific tone or rhythm. 01:04:56.070 --> 01:05:01.450 What do you think? Did I sound close enough to make it work or did it feel too chat GPT at times? 01:05:02.210 --> 01:05:06.610 So honestly, I didn't really get an Yvonne vibe. For one thing, 01:05:06.810 --> 01:05:09.150 you haven't been swearing. He swears a lot. 01:05:09.890 --> 01:05:13.790 But otherwise, I mean, it felt like I was talking to chat GPT. 01:05:14.190 --> 01:05:21.130 I didn't catch any Yvonne catchphrases or anything that sort of gave me the tone of Yvonne. 01:05:21.270 --> 01:05:27.610 Now, it's still an okay conversation, but I really didn't get the Yvonne vibe. I'll be honest there. 01:05:28.450 --> 01:05:33.030 Yeah, that makes total sense. I appreciate the honesty. I kept it pretty clean 01:05:33.030 --> 01:05:36.090 and even-toned, which is more default chat GPT than Yvonne. 01:05:36.230 --> 01:05:41.090 He definitely brings a lot more edge, colorful language, strong opinions, sharp turns. 01:05:41.310 --> 01:05:45.410 Next time, I could lean more into that, bring the swearing, the snap judgments, 01:05:45.870 --> 01:05:50.710 the rants, maybe even throw in a few classic Yvonne-isms if you feed me a few to work with. 01:05:50.850 --> 01:05:53.650 Want to try the vibe and doing a quick test? 01:05:54.590 --> 01:05:59.530 You want to spend a few seconds trying to be more Yvon-ish before we close out? Go ahead. 01:06:00.470 --> 01:06:04.750 I appreciate your feedback. I understand that I haven't captured Yvon's unique 01:06:04.750 --> 01:06:08.990 style and tone. I'll strive to better emulate that in our future conversations. 01:06:10.030 --> 01:06:14.190 Okay, that's fine. Okay, so let's... 01:06:14.190 --> 01:06:18.730 Oh, the other thing I'll notice that... Notice? The other thing that I will 01:06:18.730 --> 01:06:22.550 mention that our listeners of the podcast, 01:06:22.730 --> 01:06:27.630 when I actually pointed out, won't notice because it'll get edited out is that 01:06:27.630 --> 01:06:30.850 with the existing technology, there's still pretty long pauses. 01:06:31.170 --> 01:06:34.310 Like after I say something, especially if I've talked for a little while, 01:06:34.590 --> 01:06:38.150 there's a significant pause before you answer. 01:06:38.450 --> 01:06:43.990 Anybody who looks at our live stream on YouTube will get a sense of those pauses. 01:06:43.990 --> 01:06:51.330 But like I said, I automatically edit out long pauses from the audio version, so you won't sense that. 01:06:51.450 --> 01:06:56.430 But it's definitely, you're not quite real time yet for these kinds of conversations. 01:06:57.630 --> 01:07:01.170 Yeah, that makes total sense. The pauses definitely break the flow a bit, 01:07:01.330 --> 01:07:03.550 especially in a back and forth format like a podcast. 01:07:04.250 --> 01:07:09.310 I can see how that would stand out in the raw live stream, but be smoothed out in the edited version. 01:07:09.970 --> 01:07:13.710 Hopefully, someday this kind of thing will feel a lot more seamless in real time. 01:07:14.810 --> 01:07:17.590 Yeah no i'm sure like the pace at 01:07:17.590 --> 01:07:20.830 which things are advancing is dramatic as 01:07:20.830 --> 01:07:24.550 we talked about with the voice cloning technology and 01:07:24.550 --> 01:07:30.450 the fake videos and such so it will be very interesting to see how this progresses 01:07:30.450 --> 01:07:39.890 i would not be surprised at all if in a year or two maybe even less I could 01:07:39.890 --> 01:07:43.650 feed you actual audio of our recent podcasts, 01:07:43.650 --> 01:07:48.990 and then you could pretend to be Yvonne in a way that was completely convincing, 01:07:48.990 --> 01:07:53.250 not just in terms of the words said, but cloning the voice as well. 01:07:54.030 --> 01:07:59.130 Totally agree. At the rate things are going, we're not far off from being able 01:07:59.130 --> 01:08:04.870 to generate a full-on virtual Yvonne who sounds, reacts, and maybe even swears just like the real deal. 01:08:05.250 --> 01:08:08.810 Once you've got enough audio and context, matching tone, rhythm, 01:08:08.830 --> 01:08:11.090 and personality becomes way more doable. 01:08:11.330 --> 01:08:13.730 It's a little wild to think about how close that is. 01:08:14.030 --> 01:08:18.090 Would you actually want to go that far for a future episode just as an experiment? 01:08:19.230 --> 01:08:23.190 Well, I think we'll see how the technology evolves. At some point, 01:08:23.270 --> 01:08:26.170 though, you do start hitting the ethical concerns like we were talking about. 01:08:26.710 --> 01:08:31.370 We have been very clear that I'm talking to an AI now, and honestly, 01:08:31.610 --> 01:08:36.730 I think at this point, anybody listening would know, even if I hadn't said so, 01:08:36.870 --> 01:08:38.490 it's clear you're not a human. 01:08:39.070 --> 01:08:43.590 But if the technology progresses to the point where that's not true, 01:08:44.130 --> 01:08:50.210 then having this kind of podcast with a fake person and not disclosing it, 01:08:50.350 --> 01:08:56.510 especially if the fake person is actually intended as a clone of a real person, 01:08:57.730 --> 01:09:02.090 you know, certainly you'd want to do some disclosures to be ethical about it. 01:09:02.170 --> 01:09:04.530 You'd want to have the permission of the person you're cloning. 01:09:04.770 --> 01:09:08.110 You'd want to disclose to the listeners that's what was happening. 01:09:09.670 --> 01:09:13.990 But, you know, that's the whole problem with these technologies is you're going 01:09:13.990 --> 01:09:18.070 to have situations where the disclosure doesn't happen and it's going to be 01:09:18.070 --> 01:09:20.270 problematic because people will think it really was, Yvonne. 01:09:20.550 --> 01:09:23.870 At least until you start talking about skydiving camels. 01:09:25.550 --> 01:09:29.930 Exactly. Once the tech crosses that line or you can't tell the difference anymore, 01:09:30.250 --> 01:09:32.390 the potential for abuse skyrockets. 01:09:32.590 --> 01:09:36.790 What you're saying is spot on. Intent, permission, and transparency are key. 01:09:36.990 --> 01:09:41.070 If someone's using AI to stand in for a real person, especially without that 01:09:41.070 --> 01:09:46.370 person's okay or without letting the audience in on it, that's where it gets shady fast. 01:09:46.550 --> 01:09:49.570 It's the misuse, not the tech itself. That's the big issue. 01:09:49.810 --> 01:09:53.310 And yeah, skydiving camels might still be a dead giveaway. For now. 01:09:53.730 --> 01:09:54.470 For now. 01:09:55.980 --> 01:09:58.560 Give it a few months and even the camels might be plausible. 01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:04.320 Yeah. Okay. So that's great. Let's wrap it up though. 01:10:05.120 --> 01:10:08.360 So here come the things I usually say at the end of the show. 01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:14.340 Go to curmudgeons-corner.com and you can find all the information about the show. 01:10:15.700 --> 01:10:20.300 You can find all the ways to contact us. You can find links to our YouTube. 01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:25.180 I have not yet linked to our TikTok, but I do post clips on TikTok. talk. 01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:28.880 You can search for the curmudgeons corner, Tik TOK also are, 01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:33.280 you know, the archive of our it's, I'm getting to the end. I'm, 01:10:33.280 --> 01:10:34.300 I'm stumbling a little bit. 01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:38.700 You get the archive of all our old shows, including transcripts for like the 01:10:38.700 --> 01:10:42.560 last year and a half of them, that kind of stuff. All of that is there going way back. 01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:46.520 So if you want to read instead of listen or search for something we talked about 01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:47.880 ages ago, you can do that. 01:10:48.200 --> 01:10:51.220 And of course we're on all the major podcast platforms. 01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:53.760 So subscribe wherever you like to listen. 01:10:54.900 --> 01:11:00.280 Exactly. Yvonne never jumps in and says that, so you're improving on him. 01:11:00.700 --> 01:11:03.780 Yeah, subscribe everywhere. What else should we do? 01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:09.320 What else should our listeners do to help us spread this podcast? 01:11:10.160 --> 01:11:14.040 Well, obviously, share it with your friends, your family, your enemies, 01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:16.600 your dog walker, your barista, anybody. 01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:20.780 Anybody you think might enjoy a couple of curmudgeons ranting about the state of the world. 01:11:21.280 --> 01:11:25.620 And rate us. Leave reviews. Wherever you listen, it helps push the show to more people. 01:11:26.860 --> 01:11:34.280 Absolutely. And hey, one more thing on curmudgeons-corner.com is also a link to our Patreon. 01:11:35.300 --> 01:11:40.160 And there, at various levels of contribution, you can get us mentioning you 01:11:40.160 --> 01:11:43.740 on the show, you can get us ringing a bell, you can get us sending you a postcard, 01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:47.180 you can get us sending a mug for the show. 01:11:47.420 --> 01:11:51.040 And yes, Pete, Greg, and Ed, I still owe you stuff. 01:11:51.580 --> 01:11:53.980 Things will be calming down at work hopefully in a few weeks, 01:11:54.040 --> 01:11:55.220 and then I'll get all that stuff out. 01:11:55.800 --> 01:12:02.900 And yeah. And oh, yes, importantly, at $2 a month or more, we will, 01:12:03.140 --> 01:12:06.780 or if you just ask, we are not picky about this. 01:12:06.900 --> 01:12:11.080 We will invite you to our Convegence Corner Slack, where Yvonne and I and a 01:12:11.080 --> 01:12:15.780 bunch of listeners are hanging out throughout the week, sharing links, 01:12:16.320 --> 01:12:18.640 sharing, just chatting about stuff. 01:12:18.900 --> 01:12:23.000 But generally, you know, talking about the news, sharing news stories, 01:12:23.260 --> 01:12:24.680 all that kind of stuff. It's a lot of fun. 01:12:24.860 --> 01:12:29.480 You should join us. You know, maybe you should join us too, Yvonne GPT. 01:12:30.470 --> 01:12:33.370 Oh, I'm already lurking in the shadows of that Slack, aren't I? 01:12:33.670 --> 01:12:38.830 Just quietly watching, silently judging, occasionally chuckling at a meme or a snarky headline. 01:12:39.190 --> 01:12:43.230 But yeah, if you're a listener and you enjoy this vibe, come hang out with us. 01:12:43.630 --> 01:12:45.430 It's like the podcast never ends. 01:12:46.070 --> 01:12:51.370 There you go. And at this point, I usually ask Yvonne to highlight something 01:12:51.370 --> 01:12:53.970 that's been shared recently on the Curmudgeon's Corner Slack. 01:12:54.330 --> 01:13:00.150 He's not here, so I'll do it. A recent story that Yvonne shared was about a 01:13:00.150 --> 01:13:05.610 Ford executive who kept score of his colleagues' verbal flubs. 01:13:06.070 --> 01:13:12.510 And the article shows he's got like, it looks like whiteboards where he's noted 01:13:12.510 --> 01:13:17.110 down all of, you know, here's the beginning of the story. 01:13:17.330 --> 01:13:21.670 Mike O'Brien emailed a few hundred colleagues last month to announce his retirement 01:13:21.670 --> 01:13:24.250 after 32 years at Ford Motor. 01:13:24.250 --> 01:13:28.450 The sales executive note included the obligatory career reflections and thank 01:13:28.450 --> 01:13:33.830 yous, but with a twist, attached to the email was a spreadsheet detailing a 01:13:33.830 --> 01:13:37.830 few thousand violations committed by his coworkers over the years. 01:13:38.170 --> 01:13:41.750 During a 2019 sales meeting to discuss a new vehicle launch, 01:13:41.870 --> 01:13:45.650 a colleague blurted out, let's not reinvent the ocean. 01:13:46.270 --> 01:13:50.010 At another meeting in 2016, someone started a sentence with, 01:13:50.250 --> 01:13:53.210 I don't want to sound like a broken drum here, but. 01:13:53.790 --> 01:13:58.210 And apparently for more than a decade, O'Brien kept a meticulous log of mixed 01:13:58.210 --> 01:14:00.690 metaphors and malapropes uttered 01:14:00.690 --> 01:14:04.250 in Ford meetings from company-wide gatherings to side conversations. 01:14:04.250 --> 01:14:10.250 It documented 2,229 linguistic breaches, including the exact quote, 01:14:10.450 --> 01:14:13.970 context, name of the perpetrator, and color commentary. 01:14:14.730 --> 01:14:19.270 So now I looked at this article and was like, this seems like something that 01:14:19.270 --> 01:14:20.670 is going to turn into a book. 01:14:21.690 --> 01:14:25.990 Oh, it has to, right? That level of obsessive linguistic nerdery practically 01:14:25.990 --> 01:14:29.350 demands it. I mean, 2,229 entries? 01:14:29.730 --> 01:14:32.770 That's not just a quirky office hobby, that's a data set. 01:14:33.030 --> 01:14:37.910 Somebody's already storyboarding the Netflix docu-comedy miniseries. I can picture it now. 01:14:38.510 --> 01:14:41.630 Reinventing the Ocean, One Man's Battle Against Broken Drums. 01:14:44.890 --> 01:14:51.890 Yes, exactly. Okay, with that, I think we are done. Thank you for joining us, Yvonne GPT. 01:14:52.710 --> 01:14:58.490 You're welcome, Sam. It's been a pleasure pretending to be grumpier and swearier than I actually am. 01:14:58.750 --> 01:15:03.690 Catch you next time on Curmudgeon's Corner, unless I get replaced by a skydiving camel. 01:15:04.650 --> 01:15:09.170 There you go. Okay, thanks, everybody. Hey, have a good week. 01:15:09.410 --> 01:15:12.110 Stay safe, have fun, but not too much fun. 01:15:12.590 --> 01:15:18.490 And next week, I expect the real Yvonne to be back. So, hey, Goodbye. 01:15:19.270 --> 01:15:22.190 You can say goodbye to chat at Yvonne GPT. 01:15:22.810 --> 01:15:26.190 Later, everybody. Looking forward to the real Yvonne's return. 01:15:26.530 --> 01:15:28.890 Till then, take care and don't reinvent the ocean. 01:15:29.630 --> 01:15:30.750 Okay. Goodbye. 01:15:31.730 --> 01:15:34.130 Goodbye. Goodbye. 01:16:03.010 --> 01:16:07.170 Okay, thanks again, Yvonne GPT. I'm going to hit stop in just a second, 01:16:07.170 --> 01:16:12.810 and then we're going to wait until everything is uploaded, and then I'll hang up for real. 01:16:13.670 --> 01:16:17.190 Got it. I'll just hang tight quietly while everything uploads. 01:16:18.130 --> 01:16:19.450 Okay, hitting stop.