Sam: Hello, folks. We are about to get started with a live stream.
Sam: Live stream. Live stream.
Sam: Let's see. Can we get a... Not yet. We're waiting for the little announcement to go out.
Sam: There we go. Announcement out. And I will re-blook it, blah,
Sam: blah, blah thing as soon as it shows up here.
Sam: There we go. Okay.
Sam: We're just going to jump into it and i'll intro what's going on and blah blah
Sam: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Sam: Welcome to Curmudgeon's Corner for Saturday, March 22nd, 2025.
Sam: It's just after 17 UTC as we're starting to record this. I am Sam Minter,
Sam: and I do not have an Yvonne with me.
Sam: Yeah, he's traveling again, and whatever his travel schedule this time around
Sam: is one that was incompatible with doing the show this week.
Sam: I sent out my little note to our stable of potential substitute co-hosts,
Sam: and at first no one answered.
Sam: But then I did have someone say they would do it. And that would be my wife, Brandi Donaghy.
Sam: Representative Brandi Donaghy. State Representative Brandi Donaghy in Washington
Sam: State, 44th Legislative District.
Sam: But right now, at this very second, while I'm starting to record,
Sam: she is preparing to go out and do a series of two town halls.
Sam: And so I thought I'd just get the show started, and then we will record more
Sam: with her later on in the weekend.
Sam: As usual, I'm anchoring the show in the correct week, and so she'll be with
Sam: us after the first break.
Sam: And then as usual for a guest she'll pick topics maybe
Sam: we'll talk about those 10 halls maybe we won't i don't know it depends what
Sam: happens there and what she wants to talk about that's it's gonna be up
Sam: to her the one thing that i yeah since i figured i'll do this first segment
Sam: to anchor i'll do the but first thing where i do some media first especially
Sam: like and i looked to see what was next on my list and if it was something that
Sam: i knew like you know she'd watched with me or something, I would have said, hey,
Sam: let's wait and have a conversation where she can talk about it too.
Sam: But no, this one was definitely not one that she was with me when I watched.
Sam: As with all of these, I think my son was with me, but I don't remember anything
Sam: about his reaction to this one because I imagine it was very understated.
Sam: This was a 2021 documentary called Stuart Udall, The Politics of Beauty.
Sam: And I guess you can imagine. So first of all, let's say who was Stuart Udall?
Sam: For anybody who may not remember, he was a Democrat. He was a congressman from Arizona.
Sam: He was Secretary of the Interior from 1961 through 69. So that's under Kennedy and Johnson.
Sam: And he is best known, I'm reading from the first paragraph of his Wikipedia
Sam: page now, for promoting environmentalism while in the cabinet and his success
Sam: under President Johnson.
Sam: So that's who he is. I believe there is a brief,
Sam: like, very tenuous family connection in that I think my grandmother and grandfather
Sam: on my father's side of the family,
Sam: so the Minter side of the family, I believe they like were at least acquaintances
Sam: with this guy or knew him in passing.
Sam: I don't think they were like good friends or something, but I remember hearing
Sam: that he was like a friend of the family kind of thing, or maybe it was his brother that was.
Sam: Let me see. Okay. I brought up a note from 2024 from my dad to his sisters,
Sam: actually in May 2023, that says,
Sam: Hi, as I remember, both Stu Udall and his brother Mo Udall were friends of dads, or patients, or both.
Sam: Does that fit with your memories? Mine is not very certain,
Sam: and I am almost sure it is because of this email that I put this movie on my
Sam: list, because it includes a link to historynewsnetwork.com, a blog post about the movie.
Sam: My Aunt Diane answers, I remember Mo being a closer friend, though they also
Sam: knew Stu, of course. He was closer to other friends of theirs in Tucson.
Sam: Maybe the Barrys? I remember the National Parks and Secretary of Interior, but not anything else.
Sam: And then we've got from my dad, thanks for your good memory.
Sam: Frank Berry was indeed the key connection to the Udalls.
Sam: And then there's a little biographical bit that he puts,
Sam: you know, when John Kennedy rewarded Udall for delivering the Arizona delegation
Sam: at the 1960 Democratic Convention by appointing the 40-year-old congressman
Sam: as Secretary of Interior.
Sam: No one anticipated that one of his first acts would concern civil rights.
Sam: By 1961, Washington, D.C. had become a primarily black city.
Sam: The federal government had just completed the construction of a new public athletics
Sam: facility, the District of Columbia Stadium.
Sam: In April, Udall requested that Interior Department solicitor Frank J.
Sam: Berry render an opinion on discrimination at any facilities administered by
Sam: the Department of Interior.
Sam: Using court cases, executive order, civil rights laws, and the 14th Amendment,
Sam: Berry informed Udall that he could simply announce that there could be no discrimination
Sam: at any federal properties, including the new stadium.
Sam: The Washington Redskins of the National Football League planned to share the
Sam: new stadium with baseball senators.
Sam: However, the senators moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota, and became the Twins.
Sam: In 1961, the Redskins were the only NFL team without even one black player and
Sam: had nowhere to play if Udall denied them access to the new stadium.
Sam: The city received an expansion baseball team, also called the Senators,
Sam: but it had black athletes.
Sam: Consequently, Udall announced that the Redskins could not use the facility because
Sam: of discriminatory hiring practices.
Sam: And let's see, my Aunt Susan asks, I wonder what Tom Udall is doing these days.
Sam: I think he was a grandson.
Sam: And Diane says he's the ambassador to New Zealand and Samoa.
Sam: This was obviously still during the Biden administration.
Sam: My aunt Susan says, nice work if you can get it. I wouldn't mind that job.
Sam: Ambassador to New Zealand and Samoa? That sounds nice.
Sam: And then I mentioned in June 2024, I replied back to this thread from like a
Sam: little more than a year later that Alex and I were actually watching the movie now.
Sam: And yeah, then. So let's see what else in this email thread.
Sam: Mo was a friend, not sure if he was patient, but better friends with the berries.
Sam: They knew Stu, but not as well.
Sam: But Stu is the example I use when I want to talk about honest politicians.
Sam: And Mo's son was until recently the governor of New Mexico and Stu's son of Colorado.
Sam: So anyway, there's lots of, Lots of politicians in this family,
Sam: and apparently I had a sort of weak family connection through my grandfather, my father's father.
Sam: So, Mo Udall. Anyway, the documentary itself.
Sam: Look, you can go find out more information on StuartUdallFilm.org.
Sam: And let's see, does that History Channel link still work to actually watch it?
Sam: I forget how we watched it or where we found it.
Sam: I'm going to check Just Watch as well real quick because that always tells me where to find things.
Sam: You know, it corrected Stuart Udall to Stuart Usual.
Sam: There we go. Not available for—oh, Ovid.
Sam: Ovid. It was available on this service called Ovid.
Sam: Which I probably set up just to watch this stupid thing. Anyway, the movie itself.
Sam: It's one of these documentaries that are made by people who are obviously fans
Sam: of the person and with close cooperation with the family or whatever.
Sam: Stuart Udall died in 2010, and this movie came out just a few years later in 2021. well, 11 years.
Sam: You know, you could tell, you know, you could tell what stage of life I'm at
Sam: with 11 years is just a few years.
Sam: Not a lot, you know. Anyway, so it's kind of a hagiography.
Sam: You know, it's not doing a lot of, you know, sort of a balanced,
Sam: here's the good, here's the bad, here's the whatever.
Sam: It's like, hey, look at this great guy and all the things he accomplished during
Sam: his life, which is fine, which is fine.
Sam: I'm going to give it a thumb sideways. I mean, look, it's a documentary about
Sam: sort of a mid-level politician from the middle of the 20th century.
Sam: You're not talking somebody super famous. You're not talking about,
Sam: you know, a president or, you know, things that are like dramatic historical
Sam: events that we have all heard of.
Sam: We're talking about a guy who is secretary of the interior and a congressman.
Sam: And, you know, it seems like he accomplished some good things.
Sam: I mean, you know, as we go through it, like I'm scanning the Wikipedia page
Sam: from his time as Secretary of the Interior, because I don't actually remember
Sam: the details from the documentary that I watched almost a year ago.
Sam: But, you know, he...
Sam: He oversaw creation of new national parks.
Sam: He played a key role in getting some environmental laws through.
Sam: Clean air, water quality, clean water restoration, some wilderness stuff.
Sam: There's a list of laws that he helped.
Sam: There's the Washington Redskins thing that I just mentioned.
Sam: And he apparently did some other anti-racism stuff, like policy on use of ethnic
Sam: slurs on topographic maps.
Sam: So, you know, names of places that were insensitive, let's say.
Sam: He apparently had a bit role in the
Sam: lead up to the cuban missile crisis like in
Sam: some communication with khrushchev i don't know you
Sam: know he he he wrote a
Sam: book on the conservation i mean
Sam: he was known his big thing was being an environmentalist okay
Sam: and he was also a big proponent it looks like for starting to use nasa satellites
Sam: to survey as part of the u.s geological survey and to understand what the natural
Sam: resources of the country really were etc etc.
Sam: Okay you know and and like that that that's the list of stuff about him but the point is like okay.
Sam: It's a biographical film that concentrates on the good stuff about sort of,
Sam: you know, I'm not going to say he didn't matter.
Sam: Of course he mattered. He did important things, but he's not the big famous person.
Sam: So you don't have that hook and you don't have a hook either of,
Sam: oh, and there was this big scandal, or of other things along those lines that would make you think,
Sam: that would give it sort of extra flavor and interest just as a documentary of,
Sam: oh my God, this source material is so interesting that it's interesting no matter what.
Sam: So, thumbs sideways. And look, honestly,
Sam: unless you have some sort of direct interest in this man or the environmental
Sam: movements of the 1960s or just generally of mid 20th century Democratic politicians,
Sam: I don't know why you would like seek this out.
Sam: Because it, you know, like I said, I think I signed up for a new streaming service
Sam: or at least the free trial for a streaming service just to watch this movie.
Sam: And, you know, or maybe I found it online somewhere else.
Sam: I don't remember where I saw it, but I do know I have Ovid on my Apple TV now.
Sam: And the only thing I can imagine is I probably got it for this.
Sam: But I wonder if I'm still paying for it. I should probably check that.
Sam: Anyway, thumb sideways.
Sam: It wasn't bad or anything. It's just like it's not exceptional.
Sam: So it's sort of like you need to have some reason to be watching it, I think.
Sam: Maybe if you were studying this era for school, like you were in a college program
Sam: studying this stuff or a graduate program studying this stuff. I don't know.
Sam: Anyway, or your family knew him.
Sam: Like apparently my family knew him. So anyway. way.
Sam: Okay, I think that's going to be it for this segment.
Sam: As I mentioned, next up, when we come back from this break, I will have my wife,
Sam: Brandy Donaghy, with me.
Sam: I am actually going to leave and go to the town hall right now.
Sam: She's doing two town halls today in two different parts of her district,
Sam: one in Mill Creek, Washington, and one in Snohomish, Washington,
Sam: Snohomish City. We're all in Snohomish County.
Sam: So I'm going to attend both town halls with her, even though I've got other
Sam: stuff I should be doing too, but I don't miss her town halls.
Sam: So I'm going to go attend both town halls, probably participate a little bit
Sam: in helping set up and tear down. I usually help with that stuff.
Sam: And then, yeah, later on this weekend,
Sam: we will pick this up and my wife will join me for the rest of curmudgeon's corner
Sam: but first this exciting break and yeah yeah yeah i'm confusing myself first this break.
Break: You're supposed to say do do do do do do do alex amzilla,
Break: alex amzilla is awesome its videos are fun and today once again we have one
Break: of our most The Loyalist Subscriber is here to tell you how awesome Alex Emson is.
Break: I'd say on a rate from 1 to 10, Alex Emsla is awesome at, I don't know, 37, 82.
Break: He's pretty radical. His videos are phenomenal. They're full of creativity.
Break: And they're so funny and exciting to watch.
Break: Wow, what happened to your voice then, Amy? Was that dad pretending to be you
Break: because the audio was distorted when it really wasn't Because I told him to?
Break: Yes. Good job on remembering, Dad.
Break: Do, do, do!
Sam: Okay, we are back. And as promised, I do now have my wife, Brandy Donaghy,
Sam: who, as I mentioned, representative, state representative, Washington State,
Sam: 44th Legislative District, all that kind of stuff.
Sam: I did want to finish up, before we get to Brandy, and I'll say hello to Brandy,
Sam: And we've sort of decided we're going to do like one segment with like Washington state stuff.
Sam: Cause we do have her here as a state rep and then one segment on national ish stuff.
Sam: But, you know, I had talked in the last segment, I talked about Stuart Udall and I, and after.
Sam: After I recorded that segment, I did notice that it was one more thing on the
Sam: Wikipedia media page that was worth mentioning about him.
Sam: And it's just that him and his brother Moe, which apparently my grandfather
Sam: and grandmother on my father's side knew both of them to some degree.
Sam: I mentioned his career in Congress and Secretary of the Interior.
Sam: This is because of a movie I watched, Brandy, a documentary about this guy. Anyway,
Sam: Apparently, they were also known
Sam: before that for helping to integrate the University of Arizona cafeteria.
Sam: And this is apparently one of the stories they tell about themselves.
Sam: Basically, as with most places back in that era, this was actually pretty early, in 1947.
Sam: 47, they specifically went and did sort of a thing where they invited some Black
Sam: students into the cafeteria with them, which was against the rules at the time.
Sam: And it apparently helped open up the situation.
Sam: I don't know the details of that, but it was in the Wikipedia page and I thought it was interesting.
Brandy: Anyway.
Sam: Okay. So, Brandy.
Brandy: Yes.
Sam: Since we have you here as a state rep in Washington state, and I did mention
Sam: to folks that I was going to your two town halls today.
Sam: What do you want to talk about on the local side or on the Washington state side?
Brandy: Things have been incredibly busy incredibly busy
Brandy: and sometimes it's busy in a good way and sometimes
Brandy: it's busy in a less good way um so this is definitely a very different session
Brandy: than i've i've experienced before and i think most most the most of the people
Brandy: in the house anyway will probably feel the same way we do have people who've
Brandy: been around since previous um,
Brandy: previous funding issues.
Sam: So most people listening will probably have absolutely no idea what funding
Sam: issues you are talking about.
Sam: So explain.
Brandy: Okay. So.
Sam: And how is it different than every other time?
Brandy: So we've had a decent amount of money coming in and some of it was due to like
Brandy: the COVID, the one time things for COVID.
Brandy: And so we were able to fund stuff and do some things that we hadn't been able to do before.
Brandy: And it's important to remember that when you're using like money,
Brandy: like federal money, or putting out grants or receiving grants,
Brandy: there can be stipulations that they actually have to be spent or at least allocated
Brandy: within a certain period of time. So it's not like you can save it for later.
Brandy: You want it to go. And so a lot of the things that we had done before,
Brandy: of course, we're not able to continue because our budget situation has changed.
Brandy: We've gone from having extra cash to having much less.
Sam: Just to make sure I understand that properly, there's a lot of that was expected.
Sam: Like you said, it was temporary programs with temporary funding.
Sam: So you expected those to go away.
Brandy: We expected to have less, but then, and we knew it was going to be a tighter biennium anyway.
Brandy: But I think the change in- What's a biennium? It's two years.
Brandy: It's the two-year period that we fund things for that.
Brandy: So, next biennium starts, I want to say July 1st.
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: And then it's a two-year period.
Sam: So, basically, you have to have all the budget stuff, all the spending stuff
Sam: has to be in place by July that will cover the next two years.
Brandy: Well, kind of, yeah. So, basically, it trails the legislature by about six months.
Brandy: Okay. The start of the biennium so that we can do the budget and then it goes into effect.
Brandy: And that's every two years.
Brandy: I mean, there's usually a supplemental budget, too. So, like,
Brandy: this year we did the budget.
Brandy: Next year we do a supplemental budget for picking up things that we missed or
Brandy: things that need to be adjusted, whatever.
Brandy: But our revenue forecasts are not great.
Brandy: And I think they'd have been better had we had a different outcome in November.
Sam: How so? How would the national election results, because I'm pretty sure that's
Sam: what you're referring to, make a difference to the revenue forecasts for the state?
Brandy: Well, they make a difference to revenue across the country, actually across the world.
Brandy: Perfect example is, as we've seen the stock market crashing,
Brandy: a big part of that is due to the implementation of this weird tariff war and,
Brandy: mass firings and all sorts of things there.
Brandy: Everything they do in D.C. was going to have an impact on us,
Brandy: and it's going to have an impact on what we can expect to be coming in.
Sam: So real quick, I think it's, and look, I'm reflecting back some stuff I heard
Sam: at your town hall earlier today, but I think it's important to note,
Sam: part of this is Washington state has no income tax.
Sam: Most states have state income tax. Washington state does not.
Sam: So the revenue sources, and a lot of it is from sales tax.
Brandy: Sales tax and fees.
Sam: Sales tax and fees. And both of those are sort of consumption related.
Sam: So if people are out there spending, you get more of that. If they're not, then those decrease.
Sam: So basically, unlike a state with income tax, Washington state,
Sam: and there are only a couple more, like Florida has no income tax,
Sam: but a couple more, I think. Is it just the two?
Brandy: Yeah.
Sam: I know those two don't, but most states have income taxes.
Sam: And in those cases, you'll see a reduction if people lose their jobs and such,
Sam: But just a regular slowdown of spending is probably more impactful for Washington
Sam: because there's no income tax, right?
Brandy: Yeah.
Sam: Okay. So, sorry. Tangent or additional explanation that I thought would be helpful. Okay, continue.
Brandy: You're translating for me again.
Brandy: No, but I think that does have an impact on our economic forecast.
Brandy: You know, we also, we saw some changes because of inflation and that kind of thing.
Brandy: But I mean, one of the things that inflation did was, or the inflation was a, I guess, a byproduct of,
Brandy: keeping us out of a recession.
Sam: And a lot of still sort of post-COVID adjustment stuff was still going on as well.
Brandy: Yeah, because the world was about to spin into a recession.
Brandy: Honestly, I think at this point, unless things change in D.C.,
Brandy: we're going to go beyond that this time.
Brandy: Which will be very bad.
Sam: But so revenue revenue
Sam: down and then costs for doing things up because of inflation so you're you're
Sam: you're sort of so the state's in a revenue pinch or in a about an out of balance
Sam: budget pinch and you have to do stuff about it right yes and i want to say.
Brandy: It's 12 to 15 billion dollars.
Sam: And, and you said, you know, this is a biennium kind of thing happens every two years.
Sam: You were here two years ago too, but this kind of issue did not,
Sam: wasn't a problem years ago.
Brandy: No. I mean, there was, I, I, I think there may have been a little bit less,
Brandy: but it was still, it was a different time.
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: That's the easiest way to put it. and.
Sam: And so this is like the big theme of the legislative session this time is all
Sam: surrounding this crisis.
Brandy: Sort of i guess i i would say yes but also i mean it's it's where we are right
Brandy: and financially the the money that has to come in the money has to go out but there's also that big,
Brandy: piece of unknowing about what's happening at the federal level,
Brandy: whether or not we're going to get funding for schools, which is about 8% of
Brandy: the funding for schools here comes from federal government.
Brandy: We have lots of transportation projects that have federal matches or federal
Brandy: funds, grants, all sorts of infrastructure things that are partially funded by the feds.
Brandy: And we don't have a realistic understanding as to whether or not that's actually going to happen.
Brandy: So, and if it does happen, if they just claw it back once they give it to us,
Brandy: because they've apparently done that too.
Sam: And that potentially makes the issue worse.
Sam: Yeah, because you have a shortfall anyway, and then potentially you're losing
Sam: even more revenue that you're expecting to happen from the feds, but may not.
Brandy: Yeah, and Washington's what you'd call a donor state, I believe.
Brandy: We actually send more to the federal government than we receive back from them.
Sam: Now, just to be clear on that, because I've heard a couple people in other contexts
Sam: talk about what happens if donor states just withhold, but it's not the state
Sam: itself donating, right? It's just federal income tax.
Brandy: It's the people in the state.
Sam: It's federal income tax from all the people in the state.
Brandy: And the businesses. Right, right, right.
Sam: But the point, it's not like the state legislature could say,
Sam: we're not going to contribute to the feds this time.
Sam: You know, it's individuals and businesses paying their taxes.
Brandy: Yes. But again, that creates an interesting balance because if...
Brandy: I am not advocating for not paying federal taxes, but if we didn't, we'd probably be fine.
Brandy: So it's like this weird little space to be in.
Sam: Well, they're cutting all the enforcement abilities of the IRS anyway,
Sam: right? So like, who's going to do anything?
Brandy: Yes, that is true.
Sam: I would not recommend that.
Brandy: I too am not recommending that.
Sam: We will be paying our taxes just to
Sam: be clear sadly yeah so
Sam: so basically this puts you in a position of in order to bring this back into
Sam: balance some combination of spending cuts and tax increases that's really the
Sam: the only two options right yeah and yeah yeah you have to like Like, from these town halls,
Sam: and I'm going to keep coming back to the town halls, because in between the
Sam: first segment and the second segment,
Sam: I attended two of these town halls that Brandy was giving.
Sam: Each one of them had, what, about 40 people? About 50.
Sam: 40 or 50 at each one, so about 100 people total for the whole day.
Brandy: Which, you know, actually was fairly small, because there were other ones that
Brandy: had hundreds and hundreds of people show up. I usually take that as a whole
Brandy: bunch of people not showing up is that not everybody's mad at me, but I guess we'll see.
Sam: Yeah.
Sam: But one of the themes that I found, it's not really, I was going to say found
Sam: remarkable, but it's not really remarkable.
Sam: It's fully expected because this is like, there are several common themes in
Sam: American politics, and this is one of them.
Sam: But at both of your town halls, there were a combination of people.
Sam: There was one set of people who got up over and over again.
Sam: And we're, and especially in the realm of education, but in some other areas
Sam: too, but especially in education, we're like saying, we've already been cut to the bone.
Sam: Please don't cut our funding any further. We're already like,
Sam: we can't provide the services we're supposed to provide.
Sam: It is really tough out there. We are losing people. We are losing some from
Sam: straight up layoffs, some from you're just not paying competitively,
Sam: so they go do other things, etc.
Sam: And these people basically saying, look, you're already cutting crucial things.
Sam: Please don't cut any more. And then there's another group of people who raise
Sam: their hands and say, don't talk to us about raising taxes.
Sam: You shouldn't be even thinking about that. Cut, cut, cut, cut,
Sam: cut. You should not be spending this money you don't have.
Sam: And these two groups of people will speak within minutes of each other at the
Sam: same town hall, talking about the same issues, obviously coming at it from a
Sam: very different perspective.
Brandy: Yeah, well, there's a couple things, right?
Brandy: One is that I don't, I don't, people see that the budgets are,
Brandy: the budget is large, right?
Brandy: But I don't think that they truly understand that the vast majority of the money
Brandy: that we start with goes to just like operations and maintenance companies.
Brandy: Because the money we start with goes to all the agencies.
Brandy: It pays for all the different departments. It pays for all of the staff.
Brandy: It pays for all of that. So the discretionary part of, and I say that with quotes,
Brandy: the discretionary part of the budget in the first place is, and that's the stuff
Brandy: that we can legally not pay for.
Brandy: Not that it wouldn't be completely destructive and make everything fall apart.
Brandy: Is like 15% or something. It's actually a pretty small percentage,
Brandy: like 15 or 20%. Everything else, we actually have legal requirement to pay. So there's that.
Sam: Now, you say that though, but legal requirement, but you're the legislature,
Sam: you could change those laws, right?
Brandy: Not always. We have a constitution. We have other things that we've been required to do.
Brandy: For example, one of the issues with the school funding is the player aid decision.
Brandy: So when that went into effect, I think there was this camp of people that thought
Brandy: that when McCleary went into effect.
Sam: School was going to be fully funded. Explain what it is. No one knows what that is.
Brandy: It was a court case. But basically what it comes down to is we,
Brandy: as a state, are required to fully fund education.
Brandy: The definition of fully fund education is where it gets tricky.
Brandy: Because it'll be like maybe it'll
Brandy: cover the books and the teachers the certified teachers but not the office staff
Brandy: not the custodial staff not the food not the building there are all sorts of
Brandy: people that are things that are not actually caught up in what's considered
Brandy: fully funding education so yeah,
Brandy: By adhering to the decision in McCleary, you would think that everything's getting
Brandy: taken care of, but it's really not.
Brandy: And then we have that secondary piece where the way the school budgets are set
Brandy: up is that the state pays a chunk, about 8% comes in through the federal government.
Brandy: And then levies are actually part of the operating budget of schools,
Brandy: like those levies that people vote on.
Sam: That's basically local taxes ends up being paid by local.
Brandy: Yeah. But that's when the levies fail. That's why they have to let go of a bunch of people.
Sam: Right.
Brandy: Because that's actually part of how the school funding is done with the levies and the bonds.
Brandy: So I lost track of where we were because it's late.
Brandy: But, you know, we have.
Sam: You were responding to my comments about like half the people are like, don't cut anymore.
Sam: And half the people are like, you need to cut more.
Brandy: Yeah. But I think McCleary, with the way that came out and some of the adjustments
Brandy: that were made, actually put school districts in a worse spot than they were before.
Sam: Mm hmm.
Brandy: So there's that. And that's part of the issue with especially the school,
Brandy: the teachers talking about school funding is because the shifts made things
Brandy: worse for a lot of schools, not better.
Brandy: And we knew that was going to happen, by the way. We knew it was going to happen.
Brandy: But it was a forward order.
Sam: So backing up a little bit, that was in response to you saying there's a certain
Sam: amount that's legally mandated.
Sam: But how do you respond in general to this clear bifurcation with the people
Sam: in the audience at town halls and presumably the people in general that are
Sam: your constituents in terms of what they're demanding?
Sam: I mean, and this is clearly like related to the general partisan divide,
Sam: but not 100% aligned with it.
Brandy: But if we are in a position where we have to see property taxes go up,
Brandy: it also makes sense to ensure that we've got enough coverage for an exemption
Brandy: for people who are living on fixed incomes,
Brandy: older people who are retired, people who are disabled.
Sam: So wait, you're talking about the revenue side now.
Brandy: No, I'm talking about both. I think that if we're in a situation where we have
Brandy: to raise property taxes,
Brandy: we also need to look at that situation from the angle of those who are living
Brandy: in fixed incomes and such and actually start to make more exemptions for them
Brandy: to expand the exemptions to ensure that we're not pushing people out of their homes.
Brandy: I think all of the stuff that we need to do has to be balanced.
Sam: So, but that's still like, you're talking the revenue side.
Sam: You're saying if we have to increase taxes, we have to make sure we're structuring
Sam: it so that it's not hurting these people. Yeah.
Sam: But also on the cut side, what do you say, like, on the one hand,
Sam: you have people saying you've already cut too much.
Sam: And then you've got people saying you haven't cut enough. How do you square
Sam: that? What's your take on what's going on with that?
Brandy: I think I kind of want to say that both are right to an extent.
Brandy: It depends on where you're looking.
Sam: Explain.
Brandy: I'm sure there are places where we can make some cuts that would be less devastating.
Brandy: But in a lot of spaces, I think our focus is between our caucus,
Brandy: our Democratic and Republican caucus, are probably opposite.
Brandy: So I'm not going to say opposite. A lot of them care about making sure people
Brandy: have access to health care. They care about making sure people have places to live.
Brandy: They care about making sure people have food to eat. But they also represent
Brandy: areas that tend to be a lot more, want to be a lot more independent, I guess.
Brandy: So there will be situations in which they would resist any kind of assistance
Brandy: and instead be mad because they feel like we're driving them into a hole. Does that make sense?
Brandy: The constituencies are different. Right.
Brandy: It all gets, it gets really tricky. I think when it comes down to it,
Brandy: this biennium, no one's going to win.
Brandy: Everybody's going to lose. And our goal is going to be keeping people safe and
Brandy: alive as opposed to ensuring they can thrive.
Brandy: And that's not great.
Brandy: It's really not great.
Sam: Because basically you're, you're, you're stuck in a hole.
Sam: Like the, despite the people who want even more cuts,
Sam: what's on the table right now, and I guess, correct me if I'm wrong,
Sam: the governor made a proposal for what the budget should be that had some pretty
Sam: deep cuts in it already, but not enough to balance the budget.
Sam: And now the legislature is trying to figure out how to take what started with
Sam: the governor and then adjust it further because you're legally required to balance
Sam: the budget in the end, right?
Brandy: Yeah. And we're also not legally required to do everything the governor wants.
Sam: Right.
Brandy: Although then he has to sign it. So there has to be a balance there, too.
Sam: But even compared to what the governor submitted to you guys,
Sam: you either have to cut even more or you have to raise more revenue.
Sam: There's no other ways around.
Brandy: Honestly, both. We have to do both.
Sam: And both are going to make people unhappy. Like you said, there's no,
Sam: you know, the, the, the, the, there are people who are upset that it's already
Sam: been cut as far as it has been.
Sam: And there'll be people who are going to be upset on any increases in taxes to make up revenue.
Sam: Like, and so are, are you just screwed?
Brandy: Define screwed. like I think we're is the.
Sam: Whole state screwed what's the situation I.
Brandy: Used to joke that you know the sign of solid legislation is
Brandy: was when nobody won. It was, maybe nobody loses, but nobody wins.
Sam: I was going to say, shouldn't we be looking for win-win situations,
Sam: not just everybody loses?
Brandy: Yes, but those are always suspect. When it's win-win, you've got to worry a
Brandy: little bit about what's hiding behind here.
Brandy: I mean, there are occasionally win-win. I had a bill that would be a win-win.
Brandy: There's a Senate version, because mine's not moving, but the Senate version
Brandy: is, and that would be a win-win. but they're rare.
Brandy: Mostly it's...
Sam: Don't just drop that without saying what it is.
Brandy: It's actually, it's a really simple bill. It impacts a fairly small group of
Brandy: people, but we have registered tow truck operators.
Brandy: They're registered with the state and they are a regulated business.
Brandy: And basically when there's a need for a tow, they have to go out and do it.
Brandy: It's kind of a requirement. it. So they'll take a vehicle, they'll tow it.
Brandy: And if the owner doesn't turn up, they can auction it off after a period of time.
Brandy: And they hope that what they auction it off for will cover at least some of
Brandy: the storage and tow services and stuff that they've had.
Brandy: Now, there are plenty of people who are living in their vehicles.
Brandy: There are plenty of people who do not have the money to get their cars back
Brandy: from impound when they've been towed.
Brandy: And so there's this fund that when a vehicle is sold at auction,
Brandy: if the amount made at auction was more than the cost of the tow truck services,
Brandy: the towers would be able to get paid with that income there.
Brandy: And then whatever remains gets put to a separate account, and it's the excess funds account.
Brandy: So my bill would say that when there's money in the excess funds account,
Brandy: when somebody who is indigent has their car towed, they can attest that they
Brandy: do not have the funds to be able to get their car out of impound.
Brandy: Or if they live in their vehicle, they can be like, my vehicle is my home.
Brandy: And if there's money in the excess fund account, it allows the tow truck drivers
Brandy: to get paid for the tow, plus release the vehicle.
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: And it's an excess funds account, so it's not filled by the transportation fund or the general fund.
Brandy: And it ensures that tow truck drivers actually get paid for their work when
Brandy: there's funds available.
Sam: And you said your version of this bill is not moving, but there's a Senate equivalent that is?
Brandy: Yeah.
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: So, and that's what matters. No, I mean, in this case, that's what matters because
Brandy: it'll help keep an industry functional.
Sam: So back to the budget, it's just going to be bad.
Sam: Everybody's going to be unhappy. Nobody's going to be happy.
Sam: And, you know, are we going to get a situation where Democrats are all blamed
Sam: for this and end up losing some traction next election? or is it enough time
Sam: before the next election that this will be the last thing on anybody's mind by then?
Brandy: Well, you know, I think it depends. We don't have any certainty about the federal situation.
Brandy: So how that plays out is going to have an impact. For example,
Brandy: they're talking about raiding Medicaid or Medicare, Medicaid.
Brandy: If that happens, there are
Brandy: going to be lots and lots of people who are going to
Brandy: be sick who will probably die
Brandy: and there are lots of people who rely on that for health care services particularly
Brandy: in states that supported donald trump if he cuts everybody's health care and
Brandy: they also mess like at social with social security though it looks like they will,
Brandy: I don't think we're going to continue to see so many people say,
Brandy: oh, well, this is just part of the plan, but it's going to get better.
Brandy: We're going to have a bunch of people who are really struggling across the country.
Brandy: And that's actually going to be really hard on blaming on anybody other than who's responsible.
Sam: Now, if those kind of national things do hit, is there talk of state contingency,
Sam: like the state having to step up and do stuff?
Sam: But with all the budget stuff you just talked about, how?
Brandy: Yeah, the states don't have money. It's just the same idea. They're talking
Brandy: about eliminating FEMA and that states should take responsibility.
Brandy: But part of what FEMA does is it helps organize and direct funds to where they need to be.
Brandy: So we don't have the
Brandy: infrastructure for that because fema's been
Brandy: there and we don't have the money to build it up so
Brandy: again there are going to be states that actually
Brandy: are much much worse worse off because of
Brandy: the actions of the the federal government and i
Brandy: think that can definitely have an impact on where we end up because even if
Brandy: even if people believed when he said he wouldn't do these things once he does
Brandy: and they're hurting it's going to be hard to justify continued,
Brandy: adoration i guess um i.
Sam: Guess we'll see on that.
Brandy: Yeah i mean i there are going to be people who think it's wonderful all the
Brandy: way through and keep making excuses but i think a lot of people made the choice
Brandy: they did because they wanted to believe him yeah and if he directly does this,
Brandy: then that's going to be an issue and you know how we our focus is really you
Brandy: know it's keeping people alive it's keeping people safe,
Brandy: And that needs to be our goal. So for those states that are able to do that
Brandy: better than others, I don't know.
Brandy: I think it's really going to depend on how things come out, whether or not we
Brandy: find ourselves in a recession or even a depression.
Brandy: And how many games the federal government is going to continue to play with economics.
Brandy: Okay so i mean i love my job and i'm usually really cheery about it but this
Brandy: is really hard it's because it's a struggle to make sure people have what they
Brandy: need let alone get what they want.
Sam: Right so just it sounds like the the mood this session is just entirely different
Sam: than the same time two years ago for.
Brandy: Instance it's it's very strange like even even the new representatives are like,
Brandy: this feels really odd. And it's like, yeah, this is really odd.
Brandy: So people who haven't been here before know it's out of character too.
Brandy: So that's really interesting. That's how marketed it is.
Sam: So obviously the big theme has been the budget stuff.
Sam: Anything else you'd like to highlight either from what's going on in Olympia
Sam: these days, other than the big budget crisis or or things specifically to call
Sam: out from your town halls today.
Brandy: I have a couple traffic safety bills i've been doing a lot around traffic safety
Brandy: okay and i have a couple traffic traffic safety bills that are useful one uses
Brandy: sound to identify vehicles that have been modified for racing okay,
Brandy: And the other one would increase the age that young people are required to have
Brandy: driver's training before they get their license.
Sam: Okay. How are those doing?
Brandy: I think the young drivers was already moved out of the transportation committee.
Brandy: I'd ask Jessica, but we got distracted today.
Sam: Jessica, her legislative aide.
Brandy: Yeah. And then the other one has a hearing coming up in a week or so.
Brandy: So they're still moving. I had a lot of bills this session, more than I've ever had before.
Sam: I didn't let you do your intro like you do at your town halls. I know you didn't.
Sam: I had mentioned you're a state representative, 44th legislative district in
Sam: Washington State, but you usually say all the committees you're on and stuff.
Sam: So what are all the committees that you're on?
Brandy: I am on technology, economic development, veterans.
Brandy: I serve on consumer protection and business. I am on education and I'm new to
Brandy: education. This is the first year.
Brandy: And I'm vice chair of transportation.
Sam: So, okay. Of those committees, like why, what, how did you end up on those committees?
Sam: Why, why was, were you a, are they things that are of particular interest for
Sam: you or were you just assigned or, and what do you, what do you like best? What do you like least?
Brandy: So the way people are assigned to committees, they're pretty careful.
Brandy: They have a certain number of Republicans, a certain number of Democrats on them.
Brandy: So shifting people around is necessary when you need to move people from committee
Brandy: to committee. So when I started, it was the middle of the term.
Brandy: And so because it was the middle of the term, I think the goal was to put me
Brandy: on some of my predecessors' committees to make things easier so fewer people had to shift around.
Brandy: So that's how I ended up on transportation.
Brandy: And at that point, I was on housing and what was innovation,
Brandy: community economic development, and veterans.
Brandy: But the next year i was
Brandy: assigned based on what my choices were which happened to be transportation because
Brandy: i had a blast in transportation i really like it it's like i want to say it's
Brandy: grittier than the rest of the committees in some ways grittier yes like,
Brandy: I'm getting a vision of like 1970s.
Sam: Movies set in New.
Brandy: York or something. Grit, dirt, asphalt.
Sam: It's...
Brandy: I like the concept that so much of this is about things getting built, I guess, or maintained.
Brandy: And there are so many different areas of it. I just, I find it all fascinating,
Brandy: the engineering and everything that goes into the work that's getting done.
Sam: We're talking roads, bridges, trains, ferries, that kind of stuff.
Brandy: Yeah. I mean, there's also all sorts of policy around how things are used,
Brandy: et cetera. But like the other piece about transportation is that it's actually a fiscal committee.
Brandy: So we have, I guess, four main fiscal committees. There's finance.
Brandy: That's the committee where you find revenue.
Brandy: And then you've got appropriations. That is where money in the operating budget
Brandy: goes out. You have capital budget.
Brandy: That's where money in the capital budget goes out.
Brandy: And then transportation has its own budget. And so you've got both the policy
Brandy: and the budget in the same place.
Brandy: And what I like about that, it's that we're able to not only look at whether
Brandy: or not the policy is good, but also weigh the cost of it and weigh the ability to fund it.
Brandy: So all in one committee so in
Brandy: other places you may have something go
Brandy: through as policy committee and everybody there understands the policy and
Brandy: why it needs to happen then you may have it go to appropriations after that
Brandy: and then it kind of it almost separates the policy from the i think it makes
Brandy: the policy further away from the from the costs like you don't have that same
Brandy: expertise i I guess. Does that make sense?
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Brandy: So that's why I enjoy transportation.
Sam: Is that your favorite?
Brandy: So here's the thing.
Brandy: I really like all of them. Innovation.
Brandy: Community economic development and veterans is now technology,
Brandy: economic development and veterans.
Brandy: And so I've got that tech side. So data privacy and all the all those pieces
Brandy: that go with it, as well as stuff for veterans, which which I also really like.
Brandy: The economic development, I do find interesting, but it's the technology and
Brandy: the technology, tourism and veterans pieces that I really enjoy about that committee.
Brandy: And then consumer protection and business. I have a business degree.
Brandy: It actually gives me the opportunity to use some of what I learned.
Brandy: And then it also handles some real estate aspects of real estate.
Brandy: And so having experience there, too, it's also useful.
Brandy: And then education is new. I requested either education or environmental energy,
Brandy: but I would have loved to do both, but they're at the same time and I can't.
Brandy: And I don't think I can actually fit another committee into my schedule anyway.
Brandy: So that's why the four.
Sam: One more thing before we take a break and switch to national stuff. Two town halls today.
Sam: What are your general thoughts on those kind of interactions,
Sam: the town hall interactions.
Sam: What are they good for? What are they not good for? Do you like them? Do you have fun?
Brandy: They're not great for really, really in-depth, policy-heavy conversations,
Brandy: but I really like them because I think there's this idea that we are hard to
Brandy: reach and that we are not available.
Brandy: And I really believe that it's very important that we are, right?
Brandy: Like legislators be available to the communities they serve because it's not,
Brandy: it's a service position. It's not a,
Brandy: In order for me to do my job, I have to be able to interact with people.
Brandy: And so being able to understand what they need, what they're thinking,
Brandy: and how they see the things that we are doing is really important,
Brandy: I think, to being able to do my job as effectively as possible.
Brandy: So I mean I'm not a
Brandy: huge fan of public speaking so there's that but I
Brandy: do enjoy them in that it helps it helps me understand what they need what they're
Brandy: hearing and I hope it helps them understand a little bit of how how things are
Brandy: working and what's behind them because those Those are important.
Sam: Do you get a lot of angry people?
Brandy: At the town halls?
Sam: Yeah.
Brandy: No. I mean, there's always going to be someone who's upset or angry.
Brandy: But I've heard stories about other districts getting a bunch of people showing up shouting.
Brandy: Today, in one district, people actually protested outside one of the legislators' homes.
Sam: Oh.
Brandy: And then brought some of that into the town hall as well. And it's,
Brandy: I think part of it is a, it's just part of the district, who the people in the district are.
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: I think that's probably a big piece of why, why maybe we don't see that.
Brandy: It's, it's not that people in the district care less or, or more.
Brandy: I think it's just the different groups of people do things differently.
Brandy: But I typically don't get angry people.
Brandy: I also make it a practice to listen to everybody and actually value their positions.
Brandy: And again, I'm not suggesting other people don't do this, but I think I represent the entire district.
Brandy: That means everybody in it. And I have a responsibility, even if somebody doesn't
Brandy: vote for me, even if maybe I don't agree with everything they stand for,
Brandy: I think we can always find common ground.
Brandy: And so being able to demonstrate that, I have a child trying to crawl onto my lap.
Brandy: Being able to demonstrate that I think also helps.
Sam: Okay. Any other Washington State stuff you want to throw in here before we move on?
Brandy: I really like washington.
Sam: Okay okay very good okay well let's take a break and then when we come back
Sam: may i'll get your thoughts on some of the national stuff you've already touched
Sam: on it a little bit in relation to washington state stuff because.
Brandy: It's all connected.
Sam: Yeah,
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: So you know I also have your daughter behind me. Oh, no, she's gone.
Sam: I'm waiting for everybody to be quiet before I...
Brandy: Alex has left the room. Okay. He's followed his sister. Tretzky looks like he
Brandy: cares that they left, but not enough to move.
Sam: Okay, here's that break.
Break: Okie dokie. Here it comes.
Break: It was just my internet being stupid.
Break: My internet being stupid is a new song we will make.
Break: The baby well well well well well,
Break: Come on, come on.
Break: I'm tired. What's wrong? I'm really tired.
Break: It's amazing. Show on the road.
Break: There's a road? There's a road? Oh my God, there's a road.
Sam: Okay, we are back. Did you enjoy that break? I was enjoying your facial expressions during the break.
Brandy: Sometimes I wonder if maybe did you eat something that was a little bit too expired and, you know,
Brandy: it had like a hallucinatory effect or like what is going on in your head? That's all.
Sam: Oh, OK. Yvonne enjoys that one as well.
Brandy: OK.
Sam: OK, so national news, you know, we talk about that every week on this show.
Sam: So what in particular of the goings on nationally, internationally,
Sam: et cetera, I guess, what, two months and three days is the relevant time period here.
Sam: What particular things are you like hankering to talk about on the national
Sam: scene and your thoughts? so.
Brandy: There's this movement it's like 50 51.
Sam: 50 51 yeah.
Brandy: And they it's like groups that they'll do protests 50 states same day every month.
Sam: Okay 50 51 what
Sam: what's this 50 states yeah
Sam: 50 protests yeah one day oh
Sam: okay yeah i think i've i i i don't know that i recognized that name but i definitely
Sam: know they're the concept a number of these things going on to try to so what
Sam: what what about this one in particular.
Brandy: I actually went out during it. There was time that I could actually go out and
Brandy: walk through the crowds.
Sam: To one of the protests there at the state capitol.
Brandy: Yeah.
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: And I walked through and there was, there were a couple of people I talked to,
Brandy: but there was one in particular that stuck out because they're,
Brandy: they're black hawk pilot.
Sam: Okay.
Brandy: And trans.
Sam: Oh, and just to be clear, it's 50-51, not 50-51, 50-50-1 movement.
Brandy: It's 50 states, 50 protests one day.
Sam: One day, right. Okay, go ahead.
Brandy: So I was talking to them, and they're a Black Hawk, I think, pilot.
Brandy: And that's not something just anybody can go do, right?
Brandy: Like, it takes special skill to be good at it.
Brandy: And they've been all over the world.
Brandy: But because they're trans, they're being transitioned out of the military.
Brandy: And I know that since then, there was a requirement to put a stop on it.
Brandy: But fundamentally, I think that's
Brandy: the kind of thing that has been sticking with me through all of this.
Sam: Specifically the anti-trans stuff?
Brandy: It's not just the anti-trans. I mean, that's a problem, but to me,
Brandy: it's the direct attacks on specific groups of individuals by the administration.
Brandy: On veterans, federal workers in general. Well, it's federal workers,
Brandy: 30% of federal workers, almost a third of them are veterans.
Brandy: And, you know, making more huge cuts at the Veterans Administration,
Brandy: that ensures less efficient and less effective services for vets.
Brandy: And then also you take into account there are more vets working in VA than the other agencies.
Brandy: It's like it's just like an attack on an attack on veterans because.
Brandy: We're not useful to the administration anymore because they can't take us and
Brandy: throw us at other places like when they want to start a war right?
Brandy: Like we're done so we don't have value to them anymore we're not useful and
Brandy: that's that's something that's been really standing out to me,
Brandy: or You're removing all the pictures and information about military members,
Brandy: color or women in the military.
Brandy: Removing the top officer at the Coast Guard because she was a woman.
Brandy: These aren't just random slashing. These are deliberate attacks on specific groups of people.
Sam: So, yeah, like the latest one of those that I heard was Bea Arthur,
Sam: who was before she was a golden girl.
Sam: She was a Marine.
Sam: And that's one of the web pages where information about that got purged.
Sam: Now, I have heard administration people saying that this is actually malicious
Sam: compliance from employees who've been told to remove DEI stuff and so are intentionally
Sam: looking for sort of high-profile ones to remove that'll make them look stupid.
Brandy: Maybe. But I don't hear the administration complaining.
Brandy: They're like, okay.
Sam: So, yeah, I mean, look, those kinds of things are just, I don't know,
Sam: it's just so dumb, so stupid, so clearly hateful.
Sam: It's and i know they're they're at
Sam: least at least in theory if you give them any sort of benefit of the doubt whatsoever
Sam: and say okay they believe that di stuff is sort of fundamentally harmful to promote diversity,
Sam: which I have a hard time giving any benefit of the doubt to that statement.
Sam: But assuming you do, even if you do, like the way they're going about it is just brain dead stupid.
Sam: Like, they're not actually like, okay, like, if you want to criticize, like,
Sam: you some of the like, mandatory training stuff that, like, almost everybody
Sam: thinks is done badly and does stupid is stupid and is kind of performative.
Sam: Then, okay, maybe, you know, get rid of some of that stuff, maybe improve it, make it better.
Sam: I don't know. But like this kind of stuff, like getting rid of references to
Sam: the Tuskegee Airmen or to Bea Arthur or to,
Sam: you know, various other historical figures who, who happened not to be straight white men.
Sam: It's just, it's just so idiotic, but I guess it's also very indicative of the entire mindset.
Sam: I mean, it's so clear that the mindset is only straight white men belong here.
Sam: And anything else should be, you know, we need to get rid of it however we can.
Sam: I mean, they almost explicitly say that.
Brandy: Yeah, but there's another part of that, right, too. Yeah.
Brandy: It's that if women and people of color are being...
Brandy: Celebrated for something then it's
Brandy: not straight straight white men right they feel
Brandy: like they're losing something because somebody else was successful and the concept
Brandy: of somebody else being able to be successful even with all the barriers placed
Brandy: in front of them means that a lot more work had to happen in order for a person
Brandy: to be where they were and that's that's really hard for people.
Brandy: I think the DEI excludes them when really it includes, it makes sure that we're including veterans.
Brandy: Fucking Abbott, Governor Abbott. He's in a wheelchair. He's getting rid of all the DEI stuff.
Brandy: Does that mean they're going to take the ramps out of the Capitol?
Brandy: Because, like, that's why they're there.
Sam: Right.
Brandy: It's a DEI that they're there.
Sam: Now, we've been throwing around the term DEI.
Sam: I've heard a number of people make the argument of, like, don't even use that
Sam: acronym because it's giving in to their framing of it.
Brandy: DEI is diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Sam: Well, right. I've heard people say, well, say it out every time.
Sam: Don't use the initials because they've, just like they did with all kinds of other words in the past,
Sam: they have made it a bad word that many people hear it and they don't hear anything
Sam: else other than, oh, yeah, that's that awful thing.
Brandy: Yeah. They think it's also affirmative action, which is ignorant.
Brandy: But, yeah, I think the fact that they're very carefully picking specific groups
Brandy: of people to go after is a major problem. And it's intentional.
Brandy: And now, you know, deporting, detaining Americans and deporting people who are
Brandy: illegally, all that kind of stuff is problematic as well.
Sam: Say more. Go into more detail.
Brandy: There have apparently been cases now where people will be picked up by ICE,
Brandy: their identification will be confiscated,
Brandy: and they'll be stuck somewhere, despite having legal status in the U.S.
Brandy: Apparently some citizens have been caught up in it, like actual U.S.
Brandy: Citizens, green card holders.
Brandy: Because it's not about, it's typically not about looking for people who are
Brandy: here illegally. It's typically looking to get people who are here who are black and brown gone.
Sam: Although what I found interesting, I think you're absolutely right.
Sam: That is the focus. That is what they are.
Sam: That's the fundamental goal is they don't actually care about like,
Sam: you know, white Christian straight immigrants.
Sam: Um you know they they'd
Sam: be perfectly happy with more swedes or whatever however
Sam: despite that because they're pushing people so hard on numbers presumably and
Sam: people are just trying to do whatever there have been numerous cases in the
Sam: last couple weeks of like people from germany people from England,
Sam: people from various other places.
Brandy: The actress from American Pie. She was detained for like two weeks.
Sam: Right. I mean, and we're talking, you know, non-brown people are getting caught up in this anyway.
Sam: You know, non-brown, non-trans, you know, because they're specifically targeting
Sam: trans people for immigration stuff as well.
Sam: But you know so all kinds of
Sam: people are getting caught up on it there i saw that
Sam: several countries who are ostensibly our allies
Sam: have been updating their travel warnings for the u.s
Sam: uh telling people like i
Sam: think canada put out a warning saying hey be super
Sam: super careful about like time frames
Sam: like if you're going in and it's
Sam: you're you're you're legal for 30
Sam: days as a tourist or whatever be damn sure
Sam: you're home before the 30 days expires yep
Sam: because you may get caught up with this i've seen warnings from places in europe
Sam: saying if you're trans now is not a good time to go to the united states you
Sam: know and various other places that are saying hey look maybe you should reconsider travel to the u.s.
Brandy: Well the thing is just because somebody has a visa to come here even if they
Brandy: do everything right they don't have to let them in and they don't have to let them stay.
Brandy: I mean, technically anybody who's here in the U.S. is actually covered by the
Brandy: Constitution. They have those constitutional rights.
Sam: Well, they're trying to work on that. Well, this administration is going to follow them.
Sam: Yes, and who knows?
Sam: I'm sure some of these cases are going to go back to SCOTUS,
Sam: and I don't know what this SCOTUS will decide on those things.
Sam: It may not be the same as the decisions that currently govern things.
Brandy: They're starting to speak up, though. They've done a couple things now that
Brandy: make the Supreme Court, I think at least some of them are recognizing that they
Brandy: helped bolster a monster.
Sam: Yes. I think it's an open question what SCOTUS will do on various of these issues.
Sam: It's, you know, on the one hand, it's very easy to sort of think, hey, it's a 6-3 court.
Sam: They're going to back up Trump on everything he does.
Sam: I don't think it's quite that straightforward.
Sam: You know, Roberts has shown multiple times that he's willing to go against sometimes.
Sam: What is her name? Brown? Barrett?
Sam: Barrett. Barrett. has also conservatives are apparently mad at her now because
Sam: they think she's gone soft.
Sam: So, you know, because.
Brandy: Oh, my God, the Constitution, let's try to follow it. I mean,
Brandy: literally, that's their job.
Sam: Yes.
Sam: OK, moving on from targeting direct folks and immigration, other things like.
Sam: Well, I'll ask you first, then I've got a couple that I'll throw your direction
Sam: if you don't bring them up.
Brandy: I already mentioned the medicare thing the dismantling of the department of education.
Sam: Um
Brandy: And dumping things specifically in places where they know that they're going to get fucked up like.
Sam: Well that's that's the whole point i mean honestly like one of the things i've
Sam: been frustrated with on some of the commentary i've heard and some of this applies
Sam: like to international things like,
Sam: Trump and Ukraine and Russia.
Sam: But some of it is domestic, too, where people are like, well,
Sam: you know, it's hard to see how with these kind of reductions,
Sam: it's not going to diminish the ability of this agency to do its job. And it's like,
Sam: That's the whole point.
Sam: They fundamentally don't believe
Sam: that government should be doing whatever that agency is tasked with.
Sam: The entire point is to make it non-functional.
Brandy: I don't think that they believe that they shouldn't be doing it.
Brandy: I think that they recognize that an uneducated, sick electorate isn't going to fight back.
Brandy: They're just not. Hmm.
Sam: Well, I was, I was talking more generally than the Department of Education. Right.
Sam: Just, just in general, like the, the whole, like, Hey, let's gut all these agencies.
Sam: Let's try to find the, the waste fraud and abuse or whatever fundamentally is
Sam: undergirded by the notion that they believe government doing any of this work
Sam: is waste, fraud, and abuse.
Sam: Like, it's not like you're actually trying to find the 1% of people who are
Sam: doing something fraudulent with Social Security.
Sam: It's that they fundamentally believe that the idea of Social Security is waste, fraud, and abuse.
Brandy: Even though we pay into it.
Sam: Yes. And that's just one example. I think it's true of practically everything.
Sam: I mean, the whole Heritage Foundation Project 2025 stuff is just a continuation
Sam: of the fight that started with FDR.
Sam: Like, it's people who fundamentally think that everything since the New Deal
Sam: in the late 1930s was a mistake, and we should undo all of it.
Brandy: You know what I want to know? I want to know if when they eliminate everything,
Brandy: if they're actually going to stop taking all of our taxes.
Sam: Only if you're in the top 1% or less, top 0.1%.
Brandy: Because, see, that's the other thing, right? They want to eliminate all this
Brandy: stuff, calling it wasteful. But they're going to keep taking our money.
Sam: Well, I mean, one thing that some folks on the right actually do say is that
Sam: they fundamentally believe the income tax was a mistake and should be eliminated
Sam: entirely and replaced by things like,
Sam: tariffs. And so would that actually happen?
Sam: I don't know. But there are those out there who say that. They say,
Sam: fundamentally, income tax is bad.
Sam: Where we need taxes, it should be other forms of taxes. They particularly like
Sam: tariffs because, I don't know, the other countries pay for them. They don't. They don't.
Sam: But they don't. But I don't know. That's what Donald Trump keeps If any of them
Sam: ever studied economics.
Brandy: I know that Donnie was supposed to have, but apparently he was a really shitty
Brandy: student, and they had to buy his way in in the first place.
Brandy: So then he clearly demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of economics,
Brandy: because I'm pretty sure he doesn't do this maliciously. He does it because he's stupid.
Sam: Well, yes. I mean, he's definitely stupid. He's definitely like last person
Sam: who talked to him is what he does, these kinds of things.
Sam: However, he's also just incredibly self-interested.
Sam: And I think everything comes down to, does he think it will,
Sam: does it help him personally?
Sam: And that could be either that the policy helps him personally,
Sam: or just that advocating for the policy helps him personally because of who else might like it.
Sam: And I think in very few cases, if any,
Sam: is he making any sort of evaluation in terms of what will this policy do in
Sam: terms of the greater good or anything like that?
Sam: I don't think that even crosses his mind.
Brandy: No, he doesn't care.
Sam: Okay. A couple I'll throw out for you.
Sam: And they're sort of related, so maybe I'll merge them together.
Sam: Fundamentally, there's been a lot of debate about,
Sam: over the last two months on how national Democrats are or not meeting the moment
Sam: for what's going on with the Trump administration.
Sam: Now, obviously, Democrats lost the
Sam: presidency. They lost the House of Representatives. They lost the Senate.
Sam: They effectively lost the Supreme Court a long time ago.
Sam: So there's very tight limits on what's actually possible out there.
Sam: But at the same time, even without the ability to, quote unquote.
Sam: Do something in those official capacities,
Sam: there's a lot of question in terms of just what you what you do do in terms
Sam: of messaging, in terms of how you react to things, in terms of what you do.
Sam: Everything from what Chuck Schumer did with the continuing resolution to how
Sam: people acted at the State of the Union in terms of who sat there politely versus
Sam: who went and protested versus who didn't go at all.
Sam: What are your general thoughts on the... And another thing is who's actually talking and who's not.
Sam: There was a news article in the last couple of days about Biden wanting to get back in the game.
Sam: Meanwhile, Harris has been really quiet, but Walls has been out there a lot in the last few weeks.
Sam: There's a whole Sanders AOC tour that's going on where they're having big, huge rallies.
Sam: What's your general thoughts? And I threw out a whole bunch of examples,
Sam: but what's your general thoughts on how national Democrats are handling the moment.
Brandy: So i i've said before you know i think that democratic messaging sucks it's really bad,
Brandy: so there's that and that certainly plays a part but also you're right there
Brandy: they how how do they fight they have very little power to actually affect change
Brandy: and so they have to be very very careful how they wield that power,
Brandy: or it will no longer exist.
Brandy: And then take into account the fact that there's a president who has been given
Brandy: immunity from utilizing his office against people who disagree with him,
Brandy: utilizing the FBI against people who agree with him.
Sam: Disagree. Yeah.
Brandy: Yeah, who disagree. Sorry. He removed Secret Service details from.
Brandy: People, because he wanted to make them vulnerable.
Brandy: This is somebody who's not going to think twice about putting people in their
Brandy: families in very dangerous situations.
Brandy: I think that is true. And the Supreme Court has given him the leeway to do so. So there's that.
Brandy: I do think a lot of people are out there speaking. They're just not always speaking to who is expected.
Brandy: Like, there seems to be this whole thing where, where are the Obamas?
Brandy: Where are the Clintons? Where's Kamala? why
Brandy: aren't they fighting for us and it's like i mean
Brandy: that kind of happened already and we
Brandy: told you this was going to happen and you ignored
Brandy: us and so now here we are and you want to know who's going to save you and that's
Brandy: not how this works but like i think the last i saw hillary clinton was in germany
Brandy: talking about the rise of fascism like they're out there doing stuff If they're
Brandy: all out there doing stuff,
Brandy: they may not be in the spaces where other people want them to be.
Brandy: And they have no responsibility to be in those spaces. None.
Brandy: And that's important to remember.
Brandy: And I know there were some people who were kind of like, oh,
Brandy: we can't let Biden back in. Dude's offering a fundraise.
Brandy: He is a master at fundraising.
Brandy: If you say no, then you are essentially saying, that's okay.
Brandy: We don't want our party to succeed anymore.
Sam: I feel like in the Biden case, I have no problem with the fundraising.
Sam: I feel like in general, it probably is time for Biden to sort of walk off into the sunset.
Sam: And I was a Biden fan defending him staying in until the moment he dropped out.
Sam: But I think it's okay for him to walk out into the sunset.
Sam: Walk away, except like, like you said, fundraising.
Sam: Okay. Let, let him do it. Like that's not harmful. That's not the same as,
Sam: you know, I'm going to go on TV all the time and be in him doing the Bernie
Sam: Sanders rallies, you know, I don't know,
Sam: but, but like, but at the same time, I, I, I on it, I do feel a little bit disappointed
Sam: in that Harris hasn't been more visible now.
Sam: You're absolutely right there's no there's no obligation absolutely no obligation
Sam: whatsoever but i feel like she could be being useful.
Brandy: She could be doing.
Sam: Some i told you so's you.
Brandy: Know she could be she could be but nobody even has a right to that i mean when
Brandy: it comes down to it again people chose what they got,
Brandy: it's not her job to come coddle people now because she's not there to protect
Brandy: them well i mean hell She.
Sam: You know, she, you know, one extreme the day after the election,
Sam: she could have announced her run for 2028.
Brandy: She could have.
Sam: Yeah. I mean, obviously, there's no obligation.
Sam: But the thing that I am feeling right now is when it does come time for 2028,
Sam: I am going to have, I will be more inclined for people who are being active
Sam: right now versus people who wait till after midterms.
Sam: Now, it of course depends on the person. Like, you know, there are certain people
Sam: I like and certain people I don't like anyway, you know, but I feel like the
Sam: folks who are just sort of like,
Sam: well, there's nothing we can do right now.
Sam: So we're just going to lay low for a year or two.
Sam: At least in, and then maybe we'll pop our heads up and start campaigning for midterms.
Sam: But like, at least for the first year, we're just going to lay low,
Sam: see what happens, let Donald Trump do damage.
Sam: I mean, cause you can't stop the damage. And I have argued at various points
Sam: in the past that a fundamental problem of our system of checks and balances.
Sam: I mean, there are lots of good things for a system of checks and balances.
Sam: It's bad that it's being eroded.
Sam: But one of the problems was that people couldn't see the consequences of their votes.
Sam: Like they, you know, you'd either vote for somebody because you wanted them to do something.
Sam: And then because they didn't have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate,
Sam: they didn't actually get those things done. And then you're like, oh, they failed.
Sam: We voted them to do X and they didn't get it done.
Sam: And they, and so people don't see that result or,
Sam: you know, they see the other part, they blame the negative for the wrong folks
Sam: because they just don't understand how the system works.
Sam: And it feels like if you really and truly allow the consequences of the vote
Sam: to happen, either positive or negative, then it makes for a better next election,
Sam: because people are actually voting on, hey, the people I voted for actually
Sam: got to enact their policies.
Sam: And now we've seen what happens. The problem, of course, is on the negative
Sam: side, lots of people get hurt.
Sam: But I've heard the argument here in some degree that, like, you know,
Sam: you got to let the damage happen because then people will realize they fucked up.
Brandy: Yeah. But at this point, though, we got to let the damage happen because we
Brandy: have no control over making it go away.
Brandy: We don't we just don't have it.
Sam: So allowing for
Sam: you have no control and allowing for what you said
Sam: before about democratic messaging tends to suck what approach should these folks
Sam: be doing what like you know um our our congress people our senators what approach
Sam: should they be taking towards the national stuff right now it feels like they're.
Brandy: And they're talking and they're being honest.
Sam: But it seems that's the approach it seems
Sam: like so far yeah and again
Sam: completely recognizing that they can't actually
Sam: do anything substantive because they don't have majorities but it seems even
Sam: the communication stuff they're doing for the most part with a handful of exceptions
Sam: for the most part they're not doing great on the message you said you said messaging
Sam: sucks but they're really doing badly at it.
Sam: Like, and there seems to be a coherent strategy from leadership anyway,
Sam: on the national level to say,
Sam: you know, hey, we're not going to spend most of our time pointing out all the
Sam: bad things Trump is doing.
Sam: Instead, let's just keep talking about, you know, the price of eggs is still bad.
Sam: Or, you know, the lesson learned from 2024 is that people cared about,
Sam: you know, breadbasket, kitchen table issues. And so that's all we're going to talk about.
Sam: All of the other issues, forget about. We're not going to talk about democracy
Sam: because that clearly that didn't work in the election.
Sam: We're not going to talk about the trans stuff because that was wielded as a
Sam: hammer against us and they won.
Sam: So let's just ignore the trans people for now and the issues there.
Sam: I've heard people make that argument.
Brandy: Yeah, that's a stupid argument.
Sam: I've heard people say, look, being all worried about trans people,
Sam: minorities, immigrants, wanting to be like, you know,
Sam: having empathy, caring about DEI, that didn't work. So we got to stop doing that.
Sam: And it's the economy, stupid.
Sam: And there's a big push to say, hey, the problem was we were two left.
Sam: Let's go to the center and get more of those Trump voters back.
Brandy: Yeah, that's not likely. And the true Trump voters aren't going anywhere because
Brandy: politics is not about data.
Brandy: It's about faith.
Sam: Yeah, it's about emotion. And I feel like, I feel like the, the,
Sam: you know, the, I've said this on the show before.
Sam: So for long time, long time listeners are going to be annoyed at me, but.
Brandy: I'll be in what you do just for the sake of it.
Sam: I'm sure you will. I feel like the time of the traditional wisdom of trying
Sam: to swing the median voter and so always trying to sort of triangulate and get the center.
Sam: I think that may have been appropriate for certain times in the past, but for this moment,
Sam: given how polarized everything is,
Sam: I think that was a mistake in the 2024 campaign when they tried to do it.
Sam: And it really is about motivating your base and getting them out there and making sure like,
Sam: you know, there was a poll out from I think it was NBC in the last week talking
Sam: about the approval rating for the Democratic Party as a whole had now dropped
Sam: below 30 percent nationwide,
Sam: which is the lowest it's ever been while they've been tracking these things.
Sam: And is lower than Donald Trump, lower than the Republicans,
Sam: you know, and, but, but that's not, the problem with those kinds of polls is
Sam: they often aren't accompanied with why,
Sam: because while certainly some of that is going to be, oh, the Democrats are too far on the left.
Sam: Some of it is, from what I've seen in other polls and just the general zeitgeist
Sam: that's out there, is a lot of it is...
Sam: Okay, you guys lost, but you're acting like losers. Start actually acting. And yes, they are.
Brandy: It's the whole, why aren't you doing something? And it's like,
Brandy: what do you propose is done?
Sam: I think the thing that people are looking for, because I think most people recognize
Sam: they can't actually do anything in their jobs.
Sam: They're looking for them to
Sam: look upset look passionate be
Sam: like leading demonstrations and stuff not
Sam: just sitting back like i think there was a lot of frustration for just like
Sam: you know the state of the union thing the 10 democrats that went along with
Sam: the center of the one guy who stood up and protested um that was weird you know
Sam: things like that i i think i see them doing things like, okay,
Sam: the people who showed up at the state of the union,
Sam: but held up little signs or t-shirts that are like, that's just,
Sam: that's just weak and silly.
Sam: Like the guy who stood up and, and then was made them escort him out.
Sam: That's more like it. Like, and did it accomplish anything in the end?
Sam: No, but it's a bit more demonstrative and it's a bit more, okay,
Sam: you're showing us you're with us.
Sam: You're showing us you feel the same level of anger we do.
Brandy: I understand that but i also recognize that it's not it's not always useful like.
Sam: Do you think you're alienating more
Sam: people than you're gaining when you do performative things like that i.
Brandy: Think i think as time goes on as we start to play the same kind of games they do.
Sam: Well that term that term is actually one i've i've heard explicitly is like
Sam: you know So they this this like when they go low, we go high stuff failed.
Sam: We have to start like when they go low, we kick them in the nuts.
Brandy: Yeah. But here's the thing. Then that makes us know better than they are.
Brandy: And that's what differentiates us. Having more compassion.
Brandy: Caring about people. Yeah.
Brandy: Being the better human beings, that's what differentiates us.
Brandy: And if we take that away, then we're no different.
Sam: So do you feel happy with how the National Democrats are handling it for the moment?
Sam: Or do you wish they'd be doing something different? What do you think they should be doing different?
Brandy: I honestly don't know that there's anything they can do right now.
Brandy: And so saying you need to be doing this thing differently doesn't work.
Brandy: And honestly, I don't know enough about the politics and how it works there.
Sam: Some examples that have been thrown out, I think we're pretty much at the end.
Sam: There's like one or two stragglers.
Sam: But people mentioned, hey, on confirmations that the Senate has to do,
Sam: why aren't we a unified no on everybody?
Sam: Instead, they have the votes to pass them anyway.
Sam: Yeah. You know, so do the performative no and make them take,
Sam: you know, do every procedural thing in the book to slow it down and make it
Sam: take as long as possible. That kind of thing.
Brandy: What I would have done is I would have saved my no for the ones I thought were the most dangerous.
Sam: Well, that's essentially what happened, right? Like, yeah.
Brandy: Like, because if you just say no every time.
Sam: Rubio was like essentially unanimous. I think he got like 99 votes.
Sam: And then but like the the unanimous democratic opposition came for things like
Sam: rfk jr and and hogeth and i i think even those might not have been perfectly unanimous they were.
Brandy: Close but but you know if you do it all the time and you do it the same way
Brandy: all the time it it has no value you.
Sam: Don't get credit for it anyway.
Brandy: Yeah because people.
Sam: Will still be like you didn't stop it.
Brandy: Yeah but you didn't stop it whether you voted for it or against it because,
Brandy: they don't have the power so yes they
Brandy: could they could be performative and vote
Brandy: no every time but i i think i think it the message it sends a clearer message
Brandy: when you're holding out for the ones that are the problem i think rather than
Brandy: just doing the same thing over and over again,
Brandy: um i know so you say you're.
Sam: You're not happy with how they're doing things but you don't have any particular
Sam: things you wish they would do different because you think it's a no-win situation.
Brandy: Yeah well i think sometimes there's that whole thing right it was from the american
Brandy: president you fight the fights you can win versus you fight the fights that
Brandy: need fighting from the movie from the movie The American President yeah.
Sam: Good movie it's been a while.
Brandy: I know right and I've been thinking about that a lot lately yeah,
Brandy: If you're fighting every fight, though, you don't have the energy when something
Brandy: really big comes along that you might actually have the opportunity to change the direction of.
Sam: So you kind of think the lay low and wait for the right opportunity is actually
Sam: the right way to do it rather than because, again, the push from a lot of people is like, you know,
Sam: we want people who are sort of demonstrably,
Sam: clearly.
Sam: Fighting even if.
Brandy: Even if they.
Sam: Even if they are continuously losing we want to see them in the battle.
Brandy: And not sort.
Sam: Of preemptively say we can't win this one so we're not going to try.
Brandy: They want god i just lost the
Brandy: word they want activists yeah most
Brandy: politicians aren't activists and never were
Brandy: so it's
Brandy: also not something that everybody knows how to do and so they They think like
Brandy: politicians and they strategize and they do the thing that will have more of
Brandy: an impact when they do it every once in a while instead of all the time.
Sam: I think the activist identification is correct there.
Sam: I mean, like, there are clearly people hankering for, like, Democratic leaders,
Sam: whether they be elected leaders or non-elected activists or whatever.
Sam: They want to see them like protesting and getting arrested and beaten and like
Sam: just the, the performative, like, you know, they, you know, it was just the
Sam: anniversary of the whole Edmund Pettus bridge thing that I think.
Sam: People are hankering for that kind of activism right now.
Sam: And you're right. It is an activist thing, not necessarily something you expect of elected officials.
Sam: But I think people are hoping for some of that.
Sam: And even for the elected officials, it's like, I think the thing that really
Sam: rubs people the wrong way is the, we know we can't win this one,
Sam: so therefore we're not going to try. see.
Brandy: And and the other thing is i don't think there's no no trying i think it's just not public.
Sam: You know.
Brandy: I i think they are.
Sam: But but that's the thing that like
Sam: if you're talking about the general electorate and the general world of.
Brandy: They don't see that.
Sam: They don't yeah because if it's if it's not public they don't see it and you've
Sam: got a lot of especially in the younger generations, you see a lot of people
Sam: who are like, they won't associate themselves with Democrats.
Sam: They may not like Trump, but they won't associate themselves with Democrats
Sam: either because they think of Democrats as weak and feckless.
Sam: And this is marketing. This is not about what they actually do. This is marketing.
Sam: So I would suspect some of the people who are activists will end up in 5,
Sam: 10, 15 years being the new electeds at that point in time,
Sam: because of names they'll make now.
Brandy: I can tell you, though, that people who go from activism to policy,
Brandy: like politicians, don't always do well because they expect to be able to make...
Sam: Radical change quickly.
Brandy: Radical changes, but don't take into account that we are working in a system
Brandy: that was not made for us and not designed for people like us to be a part of.
Brandy: In fact, excluded.
Sam: And also, despite the current efforts to dismantle it, the entire American system
Sam: at a national level was specifically designed to slow down change.
Sam: It was designed to not allow the whims of the crowd, as it was called back then,
Sam: or maybe I just made that up.
Sam: But it was designed to insulate against raw democracy.
Sam: Because prior to the American experiment,
Sam: democracies were known as a system that always failed because you would always
Sam: end up in a situation at some point where the hoi polloi would vote themselves out.
Sam: All kinds of goodies and it would go bankrupt and it would get corrupt and it
Sam: would, you know, it's, it's a cycle that happened over and over again.
Sam: So the American system was specifically designed with all kinds of choke points
Sam: and checks and balances that were specifically designed to insulate the system
Sam: from the raw popular will and slow things down and,
Sam: and prohibit concentration of power,
Sam: all of this kind of stuff at which, you know,
Sam: you know, someone like Donald Trump is trying to get rid of all that and allow
Sam: himself to have monarchical power again,
Sam: again, but have, you know, have unrestricted power and we'll see,
Sam: but, but yeah, it's intentionally slow.
Sam: So yeah, no, I can definitely see how the activist mindset and the,
Sam: and the sort of Actual governance,
Sam: sort of one hits the brick wall of the other, and that can be frustrating.
Sam: But at the same time, it's a big reason for people's disillusion right now,
Sam: is that they feel like, you know, it doesn't matter who you vote for because
Sam: nothing good happens no matter what.
Brandy: Yeah. I think that we're going to see some interesting changes in the midterms.
Sam: Yeah. Well, I think part of that depends on...
Brandy: Assuming they happen.
Sam: Yes. I mean, we got a year and three quarters left to go, but it's like forever.
Sam: I think approximately I did. I do the math right. Anyway, it doesn't matter.
Brandy: Yes.
Sam: But that's gonna, but certainly with the current direction,
Sam: you got to think like Donald Trump has been doing unpopular things since January
Sam: 20th and doubling and tripling down on them.
Sam: And at some point that has to like,
Sam: As much as people talk about how much of a disaster the 2024 election was for
Sam: Democrats, it's because we have a winner-take-all system, essentially. It was really close.
Sam: The Democrats actually gained ground in the House.
Sam: They only lost a little bit in the Senate. They just barely lost the presidency.
Sam: And I continue to believe that if the Harris campaign hadn't shifted tone in
Sam: mid-September, they could have still pulled off a win. It was really close.
Sam: And so you don't need to fundamentally change the entire political universe
Sam: to reverse these trends. You just need the Republicans to lose a couple percent of ground.
Sam: And that's not much, especially if you destroy the economy.
Brandy: If you remember too there was a at least one situation in which donald trump
Brandy: actually said the election was rigged for him do you remember that.
Sam: He he he made a little statement about elon musk and elon musk knowing stuff
Sam: and blah blah blah i don't think it was rigged i think he said it was yeah i
Sam: mean there are different.
Brandy: Ways to rig an election right like i was talking to somebody was convinced that
Brandy: there are a lot of houses that went out for sale or rent right after the election
Brandy: like people relocating in order to shift to vote people who had money being
Brandy: able to do that that kind of thing.
Sam: Um and that that's been hell i've
Sam: suggested that tactic i've suggested moving through
Sam: it's entirely just barely you know move to purple states move to states that
Sam: don't need that many people i i've pointed out many times how like wyoming may
Sam: seem very red but it's also very small so it wouldn't take that many people to flip it you know,
Sam: you know those are actually like you know there's rigging and then there's okay
Sam: that's a legitimate tactic you know paying.
Brandy: People to to.
Sam: Vote for.
Brandy: A certain candidate.
Sam: Well yeah and and elon's like lottery in pennsylvania oh and he's doing it again
Sam: oh yeah he's doing it in the the the in the judge judge race wherever it is
Sam: um and it's still legal yeah well and we've we've made And, you know,
Sam: current campaign finance basically allows you to spend as much money as you want.
Brandy: Yes, but it doesn't allow you to buy votes. That is illegal.
Sam: Not, yes, not directly. But, like...
Sam: He tried to do it in a very loophole-ish way to make it technically by the letter
Sam: of the law legal, even though clearly in spirit it wasn't.
Sam: And, of course, you're going to see that kind of stuff. And now,
Sam: with the current environment, nobody's going to go after him for any of this stuff anyway. So, ugh.
Brandy: Now Trump wants to take over the FECs.
Sam: Yes. Well, didn't he already fire all the Democratic members of the FEC last week or the week before?
Sam: Yeah. So, yeah, it's going to be, like you said, my take is not that,
Sam: you know, you said if there are going to be elections again,
Sam: there'll be elections again. But all of the stuff.
Brandy: Will they be rigged?
Sam: Well, and I don't even know if rigged is the right word, but all of the things
Sam: that we know about that make it harder for Democrats to win will be emphasized more.
Sam: There'll be more voter suppression. There'll be more hoops that you have to jump through to vote.
Sam: The media environment will be pushed in a certain direction.
Sam: Trump is actively threatening media outlets who say anything negative against
Sam: him, and that's going to have an effect.
Sam: But they're playing off the Eastern European playbook from Orban in Hungary
Sam: who did this kind of thing and other authoritarians elsewhere in the world as
Sam: well, where you don't know...
Sam: At this point, it's not, you're transitioning to what they're calling an illiberal democracy,
Sam: where you still have all the institutions of democracy officially running,
Sam: but you try to put your thumb on every way possible to make it really,
Sam: really hard for the opposition.
Sam: You know? So there you go.
Sam: Okay. We've gone on long enough. Any last thoughts before we close it out?
Brandy: Every day seems like a really long day. And then also every day seems like a
Brandy: really short period of time.
Sam: Right. All right.
Sam: Just because of session or because of the entire damn world?
Brandy: Because the entire damn world.
Sam: Okay. Yes. a lot of people seem to have forgotten how this was like during the
Sam: first Trump administration.
Sam: And if anything, it's twice as bad this time.
Brandy: Oh, yeah. It's way worse than it was before. Because before,
Brandy: he didn't have a plan. He didn't think he was going to win.
Brandy: So he just kind of banged around inside there.
Brandy: This time, there was a plan.
Sam: And there were a lot of the quote-unquote adults in the room who may have been
Sam: conservative, but they believed in the basics of government and the constitution
Sam: and tried to reign him in. Those people are all gone now. All gone.
Brandy: And he believes himself to be a king. What would the long live the king crap,
Brandy: which also really fucking is trolling.
Sam: Well, he loves trolling with that kind of stuff, but he clearly, even with other things.
Brandy: I don't think that's trolling. He has a golden throne.
Sam: He may be trolling with the meme but the underlying thought that he believes
Sam: that his power should be unlimited is absolutely true absolutely.
Sam: Okay we can be done thanks everybody for listening to yet another curmudgeon's
Sam: corner Ivana's gonna be gone again wait,
Sam: Yes. Yvonne will be gone again next week too. So I don't know who I'll have on next week.
Sam: I'll have on somebody or I'll just do it myself. Who knows?
Sam: But, but yeah, he, this, this week he was traveling for work.
Sam: Next week is like spring break or something. So he's doing something with his
Sam: family. So good for him. Have fun.
Sam: We'll see. We'll see what I do next week. In any case, go to the website,
Sam: curmudgeons-corner.com.
Sam: You can find all the ways to contact us. You can find the archive of our shows,
Sam: transcripts of recent shows, all of that kind of fun stuff.
Sam: There's a link to our YouTube where these live streams exist and you can watch
Sam: the show unedited instead of listening to the edited audio version.
Sam: Now I say edit, but I'm not like picking out the best half hour out of a two hour recording.
Sam: No, I'm just removing coughs and the dog barking, children interrupting nonsense like that.
Sam: But on YouTube, you can see all of that stuff, including the fact that because
Sam: of technical difficulties, it took us like five tries.
Sam: I did the one recording earlier, and then it took us five tries to get a good
Sam: connection and whatever, four tries. I don't know.
Brandy: I blame you, Sam.
Sam: It is entirely my fault. But you can see all
Sam: of those artifacts on YouTube and see the video
Sam: of us and that links there i i still have
Sam: not added a tiktok link i am posting highlights on tiktok every week but oh
Sam: and this last week for the first time curmudgeon's corner on tiktok now has
Sam: more followers than my personal tiktok so i it's a it's a huge milestone i know i know,
Sam: but but yeah i i'm waiting to post the link because a i'm lazy and busy and
Sam: b like my excuse is I want to wait till TikTok's 90 day reprieve is up and see
Sam: what happens then, you know,
Sam: but anyway, all of that stuff.
Sam: And of course you can find a link to our Patreon where you can give us money.
Sam: Money is always appreciated, whether it's a dollar, $5, or, you know,
Sam: what would really be nice, $50,000 a month.
Sam: If you have that in you, cough it up. We'd be fine with that. You know, anyway.
Sam: Or $500,000 a month. I don't mind more zeros. Add as many zeros as you feel comfortable with.
Sam: Right, Brandy? You'd be okay with that, right?
Brandy: Totally.
Sam: Yeah.
Sam: Anyway, at various levels on the Patreon, we will send you a postcard,
Sam: send you a mug, ring a bell, talk about you on the show, whatever.
Sam: At $2 a month or more, or if you just ask, we'll invite you to our Curmudgeons
Sam: Corner Slack, where Yvonne and I and a variety of listeners are chatting throughout
Sam: the week, sharing links, just talking about whatever.
Sam: Let's see, what interesting thing is there recently on there?
Sam: Oh, I know I mentioned this on the show that it was coming soon,
Sam: but here's something that you would have seen on the TikTok.
Sam: I am officially Uncle Sam now.
Sam: I have to wear the red and white hat and the star-spangled suit every day because I am Uncle Sam,
Sam: because my sister had a beautiful baby boy that I shared some,
Sam: I shared one picture of the mother and child. So yeah,
Sam: this is my first time as an uncle. I don't know when I'll get to go see the
Sam: kid. Maybe the summer. I'm thinking the summer, maybe.
Brandy: If Cynthia will have you.
Sam: If Cynthia will have me. Yes. So anyway, that that's, that's my highlight from
Sam: the Slack this time around.
Sam: Okay, everybody. Thank you for joining us.
Sam: It's been a wonderful, exciting show. I will send out my usual email to potential
Sam: co-hosts, but if you're listening to this,
Sam: and you have not co-hosted recently and you are interested in co-hosting and
Sam: we've at least had some contact in the past so I know who the hell you are,
Sam: go to curmudgeoncorner.com, use one of the contact methods and let us know you're
Sam: interested and maybe I'll pick you.
Sam: Maybe I won't, but maybe I will. So contact us.
Sam: And if I haven't ever heard from you before and you're listening and you get
Sam: to this point, Contact us anyway, just to say hi, but I probably won't like
Sam: say, yeah, come co-host if it's the first time I've ever heard from you in my
Sam: entire life. Just, just being honest there.
Sam: So anyway, that's it. Thank you, everybody. Goodbye. We'll talk to you next
Sam: week. And thanks again, Brandy.
Sam: It's always great having you and I'll come downstairs and see you in person in a few seconds.
Sam: Bye everyone. Say goodbye. Goodbye.
Brandy: Bye-bye.
Sam: Thank you. Okay, I'm going to hit stop, and then you wait until I tell you to
Sam: hang out. Okay, hitting stop!